TTU v. OU Post Game Thread
by kayakyakr
on Nov 22, 2008 11:13 PM CST
in Football
105 comments
Post your thoughts and all that here. Some things to think about:
- Tech D was dominated up front, a symptom?
- Did Harrell have an off night, or did OU do something on Defense that other teams were unable to do?
- Cotton bowl?
Please keep in mind, this is the situation:
Tech, UT and OU are in a 3-way tie. The tiebreaker is BCS ranking. For TTU to win the South, we simply need OU to lose to OSU next Saturday. OU is rooting for TTU while UT is rooting for OU. We are rooting against OU and really don't care what UT does.
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oh, and i’m not in the greatest mood this evening (go figure), so watch the trolling.
by kayakyakr on
Nov 22, 2008 11:16 PM CST
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This will sting
I’m curious to see just how much the voters punish Tech this week. I presume we’ll stay in the top 10, though I wouldn’t be too shocked if we somehow fell out. Maybe this will keep other colleges from trying to poach Leach – he and the staff were thoroughly out coached tonight. Against OU, we may need to try something off the wall because Stoops was right…they know us as well as we know our selves. It was like they were in the huddle all night and knew the play call before we did. Weird.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:21 PM CST
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Shouldn't fall past #8
Alabama, Florida, UT, OU, USC, Penn State, UTAH, Tech (not in that order). Personally, I think Tech should still be ahead of UTAH, but I think that’s about where they’ll be tomorrow.
by the1austin on
Nov 22, 2008 11:39 PM CST
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think you'll be about #6
the truth is, the only rankings that REALLY matter are the BCS rankings, and they should have you are #6, according to projections on ESPN
by Beergut on
Nov 22, 2008 11:41 PM CST
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The first quarter
was bad, but I think the wheels really came off the wagon during that god-awful second quarter. On defense, our front four got blown the hell off the line too many times to count: Colby Whitlock was MIA or chop-blocked for most of the game, and our perimeter speed (or lack thereof) was not nearly good enough to keep up with Murray. Tackling was awful. I thought the corners played well until the game was too far out of reach for them to be blamed. Our coverage of Gresham was embarrassingly bad in all aspects, and the only time he didn’t hurt us was when he dropped balls. Marlon Williams is baaaack, but more in the “oh shit he’s a liability again” way than anything, Bird sucked in coverage and wasn’t fast enough to run down Murray, Duncan spent most of his time trying to shed blockers that Whitlock failed to hold at the line. Our safeties got thoroughly pantsed, but with the line putting zero pressure on Bradford, that was inevitable.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:25 PM CST
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Here’s what I learned tonight:
1) OU is a really good team and that Texas win at the Cotton Bowl was a fluke.
2) Coach Leach is not as hot a coaching commodity any more and will stay in Lubbock.
3) I still believe this team is worthy of a BCS bowl bid should things align for us. This team can play against the best of them and just got outplayed and outcoached one nights.
4) I hope we don’t feel a hangover against Baylor and take out our frustrations on them.
Go Tech! I’m still keeping the faith!!!
by WreckerRaider on
Nov 22, 2008 11:34 PM CST
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sorry, but
Texas win at the Cotton Bowl was a fluke.
This is not true. texas kicked OU’s ass that day. OU scored 35 on texas, but they couldn’t keep up with texas’ offense.
by Beergut on
Nov 22, 2008 11:39 PM CST
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not sure if I follow you on the BCS situation
OU is rooting for TTU while UT is rooting for OU.
texas is rooting for Baylor, b/c another loss by Tech (with a win by texas over A&M) means texas takes the South, regardless of what happens between OU and OSU, b/c they won head-to-head with OU.
OU is rooting for A&M, b/c if texas loses, OU takes the South.
by Beergut on
Nov 22, 2008 11:37 PM CST
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I think everybody is projecting Tech to beat Baylor. I know, they beat A&M, but…really not a threat to teams with a pulse. That scenario is on nobody’s mind except to the team that HAS lost to Baylor.
by djollie111 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:49 PM CST
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it isn't that I think Baylor is good
regardless of their won over A&M
they still have no defense and are essentially a one-man team with Griffin
However, we’re talking about what-if scenarios, which don’t have to include reality.
Besides, Tech could come out depressed and lose the game to Baylor. They haven’t had a “bad” loss yet this season, as Seth has pointed out.
That scenario is on nobody’s mind except to the team that HAS lost to Baylor.
Baylor has two conference wins this season.
by Beergut on
Nov 22, 2008 11:59 PM CST
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we're talking
We’re talking about the B12 south, and only 1 team in the south has lost to Baylor.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 12:10 AM CST
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Yes, OU and UT are rooting for Baylor and A&M. But, if UT wins (in OU’s case) or if TTU wins (in UT’s case), they absolutely must have the 3rd team in the Trio.
so, UT wants OU to win if Tech wins
OU wants Tech to win if UT wins.
simple.
by kayakyakr on
Nov 23, 2008 12:01 AM CST
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My gut says we should be lower
but I haven’t looked at who to put behind us.
I am deeply depressed right now.
by Skin Patrol on
Nov 23, 2008 1:22 PM CST
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I was
a little bothered by what looked like a lack of effort in the third qtr. Of course, that could just be me being overly critical and the wickedly foul mood I found myself in. But it really didn’t look like like much effort was being made to tackle.
I think Tech was really exposed in this game and I didn’t see it coming. We’re very good. We’re not close to elite. My fear was Tech would come out tight (they did), but that they’d settle down and play their game and it would come down to the end (they didn’t).
I’m not at all sure a positive can be gleaned from this game except that nobody seemed to get hurt – minus the kick to the ego.
Food for thought…does this give Leach even more incentive to bail after the season? After all, this was his best (last?) chance to win the conference. Obviously, winning the Big XII still a possibility, though it is now up to OSU to provide it.
I’m not about to press any panic buttons, though. This team has given us a wild ride through 11 games and my initial pre-seaon prediction was 10-2 so I’m only disapointed in the fact that we just flat out didn’t show up tonight in any facet of the game. We wrap up with Baylor and should finish 11-1. That’s pretty freaking awesome. Sure, we may be out of the BCS because of the strength of other teams in the Big XII, but we’ve got a lot of new fans across the country because of the UT and OSU games. All is not lost, just the hopes of a crystal trophy.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:37 PM CST
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I am disappointed by tonight
but not giving up on the season yet. It sucks that our divisional strength ended up taking us from in control of our destiny all the way to the MNC title game all the way back to needing help just to slip into the Big XII CCG just to get a sniff at a BCS game. That probably hurts most.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:42 PM CST
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On offense
Harrell had a pretty decent amount of time, I thought. He wasn’t enjoying the kind of protection he’s had all conference play, but that’s not an excuse for the number of poor throws he made. It was almost like he was going through his reads backwards. Our screen game pretty much was a non-factor, so Brandon Carter ended up mostly showcasing his mobility running down OU defenders sprinting to the endzone after a turnover. OU’s defense sold out hard on the running game and underneath passes, I would have liked to see some playaction to Ed Britton down the field. Batch was one of the few bright spots, he ran hard but did drop some passes. Shannon Woods: you broke my heart. Crabtree was getting open, but was a casualty of Harrell’s poor play. Eric Morris had a good case against Harris but should probably recognize that old dude would beat on his elvish ass if given the opportunity. Was kind of mystified by the appearance of the Wildcat formation, I don’t know what Leach was trying to take advantage of.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:40 PM CST
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Agreed
Harrell was hurried a few times, but on others he had all day. Some of his throws were way off, and reminded me of his semi-struggles in the early going this season. I don’t recall seeing him get flustered in his three years but tonight he did. But hey, it happens. OU just whipped ass tonight. Hats off to them for being motived, prepared and enthusiastic. Reminded me of us vs. UT and OSU.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:42 PM CST
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Agreed
the relative levels of intensity were like night and day. We got steamrolled 90% of the time, and even if Harrell had been dialed in to perfection, we probably still would have lost.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:45 PM CST
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Immediate Thoughts
There are two ways to look at this game, and I am incline to one over the other right now b/c I’ve had a few. Either you feel like we were one of the top two teams in the country and played poorly tonight (and by “poorly”, I mean like crap) or you think we were never that good in the first place and now we are where we should have been all along.
My emotional reaction is to feel like we should have won that game, and it was only poor play and poor coaching that made it not so, but reality tells me that we were not the better team, not even close, which leads to these conclusions: (1) Tech played above their heads against UT and UT played below their ability in that game, resulting in a close TT victory; (2) OSU is not a top 15 team; and (3) OU played below their ability against UT, which ultimately leads to this conclusion: TT is the 3rd best team in the Big XII South. Now before you jump on me for being a fair weather fan (which I am not; I root for Tech and only Tech since my first year of school there in 1995), I look at it this way . . . we are right where I thougtht we were before the KS game, but we got a good win over UT, which means we will finish the season 11-1. That is a very, very good season in this conference this year. Nothing to be ashamed of, as a matter of fact, I am a proud red raider right now. We just lost one game, but it is the first game this season, and the season is almost over. So for those of you who, like me, want to dwell on what could have been, just remember this . . . Tech will finish the season 11-1 in the best division of the best conference of college football in the nation. Go Red Raiders!
Oh, and we still have a chance at the Big XII Championship. Go Cowboys!
Keep your heads up.
by TTRedRaiderAlum on
Nov 22, 2008 11:41 PM CST
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You're probably half right
I don’t necessarily think we’re “elite” (who could after this game) but I think all 3 of the top (currently tied) teams in the Big12 South are close enough that home field matters THAT much. I think UT played a bad first half against us (but we played an overly conservative SECOND half against them or else it’s never close), but I think they’ve been playing above their level most of the season. (McCoy was an interception machine last season, obviously that was bad play last year, this year he WAS averaging an insane completion percentage, this is likewise an aberration, just to the other side)
Here’s my view of the three games (in reverse order):
-TTU v. OU: We (TTU) flat out sucked, we came out flat, never really got in it and OU played a mean game start to finish. They were obviously fired up (that Harris guy nearly got ejected twice) and without our own fire to start and lacking crowd energy to feed from we got housed
-TTU v. UT: Like us against OU, UT came out flat (probably overlooking us and already planning their BCS NC trip) and our guys came into the game fired up like no other game of the season. Also like OU against us, our crowd was nuts. UNLIKE us, UT crawled back into it, I think this was for two reasons. 1) Leach tightened up and got really conservative whereas OU never laid off the gas. 2) OU’s defense IS better than ours.
(for anyone who wants to argue that if not for Gideon’s drop or an awesome catch by Crabtree, we lose, I’ll remind that if not for a Crabtree fumble UT never leads that game and countless other plays kept the score in spitting distance rather than slamming the door as we should have)
Finally we have:
-UT v. OU: Despite the scores, this was the most competitive game all through. UT got some stupid calls (which gives OU the Blake Gideon level complaints), but in the end they were pretty much leading until they lost their MLB. Obviously the backup hadn’t seen significant time and McCoy exploited that the rest of the way. Injuries are a part of the game, but losing a team leader at the half hurts. (Orakpo out for UT against TTU?) If that guy stays in, I don’t think OU loses that game, but it’s close all the way. (Eric Morris and others got open in the middle in our game too so I think this still isn’t TOTALLY fixed, but our OLine collapses kept Harrel harried all game)
Honestly, I think UT played above themselves most of the season, I think we also played above ourselves in a few games, but FAR below against OU, and I think OU has played the most consistent ball all through. I think Texas is STILL overrated, although Muschamp has done an amazing job and I’m REALLY hoping someone makes a serious run at him even with that idiotic “coach in waiting” deal he went for.
If I had to rank em at the moment I probably go:
1. Oklahoma
2. Texas
3. Texas Tech
(Altho, in my opinion the distance between 2 & 3 is MUCH less than the distance between 1 & 2, and yes, I’m aware UT beat OU on a “neutral” field)
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 11:22 AM CST
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that is the amazing thing
where else can you go 11-1 and finish 3rd in a conference?
by Beergut on
Nov 22, 2008 11:43 PM CST
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It's a big fat bummer is what it is...
It makes you scratch your head. The reality of life in the Big XII is that you must field an elite team to win the conference OR you need to catch a fluky break when the traditional powers are having down years at the same time. aTm benefited from that back in the 90s, and I was hoping Tech would benefit from UT being predicted to be in a slight rebuilding year. Didn’t happen.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:45 PM CST
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This more than anything else
is causing me to worry about Leach throwing up the deuces and moving on to a conference where this sort of thing doesn’t happen.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:48 PM CST
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Exactly
I never thought Clemson would be a fit, but think about the strength of the ACC. They have some nice teams, but nothing like the Big XII even when the ACC is in an “up” cycle. Same goes for Washington and the Pac-10. This team would win those conferences, or at least be in the championship conversation on a regular basis. I also think this is what would eliminate the SEC.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:51 PM CST
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parity rules the ACC
so a force multiplier like Leach’s offense would have teams running for cover.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:52 PM CST
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I think Leach would be a force in the SEC
seriously, remember what his offenses did at Kentucky? That was the whole reason Stoops brought Leach to OU, he couldn’t stop his offense with any regularity at Florida.
Can you imagine what Leach could do at a school with resources like Tennessee? He could blow that whole conference up, similar to what Spurrier did in the 1990s. Auburn’s failure this season might worry some SEC partisans, but I think Franklin’s problems were more a result of Tuberville’s meddling in the offense than anything else.
If Tennessee grabbed him, he would change the way football is played in the SEC. However, I think they’d be scared off by his ‘quirks’, and the ACC would be a better fit.
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 12:04 AM CST
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when did we benefit from the powers being down?
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 12:00 AM CST
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1998, ATM Big XII Champs
UT 8-3. OU 5-6
1997 ATM Big XII South Champs
UT 4-7, OU 2-9
by mojavereject on
Nov 23, 2008 12:09 AM CST
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the problem with that is
in ‘98, we had to beat #2 Nebraska, who had NEVER lost a conference game in the regular season to that point, and #1 Kansas State also, that texas team that went 9-3 had a Heisman Trophy winner, and beat us in a nailbiter in Austin, so I would argue that they weren’t “down” that season.
texas was terrible in 1997, I will agree, but that is the same team that had just won back-to-back conference titles in ’95 and ’96. As a program, they were not “down”.
The problem with saying another team is “down” for an extended period is that in order for them to be down, you have to be beating them regularly.
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 4:31 PM CST
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Unfortunately
What people will remember is not the classic vs. UT or the beatdown of OSU. This game comes at the end of the season where the rubber meets the road and the men are separated from the boys. We got dusted by a man tonight.
I don’t buy some arguments that OU was this good when they played UT. Good teams tend to improve as the season goes along and this is not the same team UT beat. I would put a ton of money on the Sooners if they play UT tomorrow.
by Tech92 on
Nov 22, 2008 11:48 PM CST
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Seriously
That is not fair to say. I’ve read your posts with a great deal of respect over the last few months and I’m dissappointed that you would say that to denegrate an opponent of your opponent,
by pleaseplaykindle on
Nov 23, 2008 2:37 AM CST
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I think it's accurate
I don’t think that disrespects UT nearly as much as it is the realization that that OU team last night would have beat the Steelers.
by Tech92 on
Nov 23, 2008 8:00 AM CST
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My issue with this...
It is the same thing people were saying about the OSU team we beat vs. the OSU team that nearly beat Texas in Austin. Yea, OU played a great game last night, but they played a great game… against us. Same team on their sideline. Teams are as good as their record, as the scores of the games they play. OU is pretty obviously a better team than Texas Tech. Home field advantage isn’t 50 points.
I don’t think it’s fair to explain away losses or opponent’s records by simply stating that they played better against us than they did against someone else. OSU was a good team when they beat them, though they played a bad game. Texas is a good, good football team. We beat them. OU didn’t. That doesn’t mean it was a “different” set of guys or coaches with OU shirts on.
by Skin Patrol on
Nov 23, 2008 1:27 PM CST
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I’m going to go drink some more.
by willthetechfan on
Nov 22, 2008 11:50 PM CST
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I find solace in this...
You are never as good as you look, or as bad as you look at any particular time…it still hurts like hell, but what a ride we just took for a month there!…It was a blast!…now, let’s salvage what’s left to salvage and build on it…no matter what happens next week, we’ve taken another step in the right direction this year…baby steps maybe(nobody said it would be easy), But we are still moving forward!…Wreck ’Em Tech!!
by TT4EVER on
Nov 22, 2008 11:57 PM CST
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http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Anybody-get-the-number-on-that-covered-wagon-?urn=ncaaf,124103
Hinton points out that we did, at least, make it into the 2nd Quarter before we got KO’d, which is a bit further than other teams have gotten.
by mojavereject on
Nov 22, 2008 11:59 PM CST
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haircut for me tomorrow. Damn. What a run.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 12:13 AM CST
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In addition . . .
my observances on the game, which are probably nothing different than what everyone else saw (but this is what I saw in particular), was (a) every TT player was outplayed (period!); (b) Brandon Carter was beaten badly tonight, © the offensive line as a whole was unimpressive; (d) the defense was right where I thought they were before the UT game (think first half AtM); (e) I thought we had a decent defensive line?; and (e) Leach and McNeil refused to change their gameplan, and it cost them. With respect to the latter, it was rediculous how TT’s offensive and defensive play in the fourth quarter looked just like their game plan in the first. With respect to the offense, it was obvious, that OU knew our offensive playbook as well as we did (they were reading our plays like a kindergarden story), so we needed to do something unusual/different. Did we? No. With respect to defense, it was obvious that our usual, zone coverage and true front defense (i.e., bend but don’t break) was not getting it done. Sure it was nice when our front 7 could handle the line of scrimage and our two safeties could set back deep, but hey! that wasn’t cutting it. Even if it was risky, we needed to blitz Bradford early in the first half to try to make something happen. Needless to say, I was not impressed by any TT player.
by TTRedRaiderAlum on
Nov 23, 2008 12:09 AM CST
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WE ARE STILL RED RAIDERS
WE ARE STILL PROUD AS BEFORE SIX HOURS AGO
WE ARE STILL IN THE HUNT FOR THE BIG 12 SOUTH.
WE ARE DISSAPOINTED (BUT NOT BROKEN)
WE ARE FROM LUBBOCK AND LOVE OUR UNIVERSITY
WE ARE NEVER DEFEATED IN THE HEART
WE WILL FIGHT TILL THE END AND SO SHALL LIVE ON THE MATADORS-————————————————————-
WE WILL SHOW (NEXT WEEK) AND BE JUST AS PROUD AND STRONG.
-
IM SO PROUD TO BE A RED RAIDER…….AND ALWAYS WILL BE.
I was afraid of this-(two things)
1)The bye
2)The hype
prediction:
Leach stays here and we move forward and hint:
Crabtree will not leave-he still has allot to accomplish….
“WRECK BAYLOR”
see you all there next week……GUNS UP!
by slycanyon on
Nov 23, 2008 12:34 AM CST
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Dude, Crabtree's bag is already packed.
The only way I could see him coming back is if Harrell was too. No way he stays around to waste his time with a first year starter at QB.
by the1austin on
Nov 23, 2008 12:39 AM CST
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agree
He’d be foolish to turn down that kind of cash.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 12:40 AM CST
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After trying to score on that 4th down late in the game, Stoops went on my permanent no-class list.
Bue he comes in a far second to the UT-Austin and A&M trollers here. Funny, didn’t we beat both of those guys? Yep, and knocked UT-Austin right out of the national and Big 12 title games. Of course, beating A&M is no big deal. Even Baylor whooped the shit out of those lightweights.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 12:55 AM CST
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yes, but
no doubt stooper’s an a-hole, but you can’t be mad when Leach would have done the same thing (and has before). he’s just trying to make his case for voters.
by jeraco on
Nov 23, 2008 1:00 AM CST
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I don’t remember us ever calling time out and trying to score on 4th down when we were already up by 41. That’s WAY over the top.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 1:03 AM CST
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Sorry
I just can’t agree with you. If this wasn’t a battle of top-10 teams, maybe. But I find no fault to Stoops’ play-calling. We couldn’t stop them at all. They deserved every point and every yard they got.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 1:06 AM CST
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I guess the traditional notions of sportsmanship and class have changed since I was a kid.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 1:08 AM CST
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I don't know
but I just think points and stats are proof of success in aspects of the game. Every score is a result of a lot of plays made before it and lots of players doing their jobs. Why grind it out all the way down the field and not try for the score? I can’t have Leach’s back and not have Stoops, regardless of the point spread. It’s just the principle of it I guess.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 1:23 AM CST
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a playoff wouldn’t care about margin of victory but the BCS does. he’s trying to get more attention for his team by trying to score more in garbage time. like it or not, it’s a product of the BCS system.
by jeraco on
Nov 23, 2008 1:28 AM CST
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the time out’s were definitely annoying. especially when our defense was loaded on the bus ready to go home at halftime. he was definitely trying to stick it to tech. all OU has talked about for 2 weeks is payback for last year. but if the situation is reversed next year, i’ll be screaming for us to go for it too, so i’m not mad.
by jeraco on
Nov 23, 2008 1:13 AM CST
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We challenged a play when the game was over?
Who cares? 41 or 11 if the game is over, you can’t claim it is bad when Stoops does it without saying it’s bad when Leach does it.
Why shouldn’t Stoops run up the score?
by Skin Patrol on
Nov 23, 2008 1:38 PM CST
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I do not want to break up your mourning, but I don’t accept this “running up the score” thing in any way.
it was long decided that going for it on 4th down inside his own zone when he’s up by 40+ is Stoop’s way of showing sportsmanship. He’s telling you: I’m not going to take the easy points, I’m not going to no longer try, i’m going to call my plays and you stop me.
by kayakyakr on
Nov 23, 2008 1:28 AM CST
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that wasn't running up the score
Stoops was just “running his offense”
For pete’s sake, he ran the ball on 4th down with his 4th string TB
if he wanted to run it up, he could have passed to Greshmam. God knows y’all couldn’t stop him tonight.
Stoops did everything but run backwards on that play.
Crying about running up the score is pathetic. Period.
BTW, you didn’t knock texas out of the Big 12 and national title hunt. Tech’s little performance in Norman brought texas right back into the chase.
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 1:33 AM CST
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He could have kicked a field goal. But that wouldn’t get him to 70. He’s a chickensh*t in my book. If Leach tried the same thing, I’d feel the same way.
BTW, thinking about a rematch with Baylor in the Last Place Bowl?
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 2:15 AM CST
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if he wanted to go to 70, he could have passed to Gresham
Stoops could have put 100 up on Tech if he wanted to last night.
You’re just so pissed about the loss, you’re looking to grasp onto anything to make you feel better, and right now all you can claim is som BS moral superiority over being “sportsmanlike” and “classy”, which is just a crock.
BTW, thinking about a rematch with Baylor in the Last Place Bowl?
You know, I went and checked big12sports.com just to be sure, and yep, the score of last night’s game still reads Oklahoma 65 Tech 21. You still lost.
It doesn’t matter how much you talk about Baylor or how much you try to insult A&M, it doesn’t change the outcome of the game. YOU.STILL.LOST.
Trying to change the subject and bag on A&M accomplishes nothing.
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 4:40 PM CST
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Say what you will about UT-Austin trollers..
…you will not find a classier coach than Mack Brown.
by pleaseplaykindle on
Nov 23, 2008 2:39 AM CST
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WTF?
Are you serious?!? Coach “jump me over a team, who won their game, for the bcs because I coach Texas damnit” Brown? Coach “I want to complain about Tech fans being excited and make innuendo that FANS were attacking my players on the field” Brown? Coach “playoffs would suck when I’m #1, but should be instituted immediately to accommodate me when my team is #3” Brown? Oh yeah, class act all the way there. _
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Coach Leach is a saint, but “class” is overrated, it’s all about the Ws.
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 11:41 AM CST
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And Mack has plenty of "W's" too....
If Leach was in UT’s or OU’s position now, you guys would want him to campaign to the best of his abilities too.
by the1austin on
Nov 23, 2008 11:52 AM CST
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Not exactly
I want us to go to the BCS as much as any fan, but I HATE the polls, they reward the “elite” schools to the detriment of the rest. Voters can choose any thought they want (one or two idiots in some polls still had UT above Tech the DAY after we beat you just because they “felt” like Texas is better, as UT fans have said for years "scoreboard"). I think a playoff of conference champions would be best. But yeah, Mack has a ton of Ws, and I know ‘horns LOVE Mack the campaigner, because Mack is the greatest campaigner I’ve ever SEEN. Mack can campaign his way to top recruiting classes, Mack can campaign the best assistant coaches into coming (and waiting this year?!?) and Mack can campaign voters.
Mack can TALK a great game, Mack is at best an average COACH who just has amazing talent on his teams, and for a good number of years he’s recruited top-flight assistants (on Def. Coord) to do the actual “coaching”. If Mack becomes AD (as most everyone expects) sometime soon and gets a great coach like Muschamp to be HC, UTexas will be strong for a long while. If some team convinces Muschamp to leave, UT can continue to bounce between “great” (when they have an awesome DC to do the real "coaching") and “meh” (when they don’t). And yes, even when UT is “meh” they’ll still be a challenge for us while Mack is recruiting, unless he loses his touch somehow (and I’m not holding my breath on that one).
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 12:07 PM CST
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Mack an "average coach" becuase he doesn't call plays?
Mack is the quintessential “CEO” style head coach. Yes, he defers a lot to his assistants, but that doesn’t make him a bad coach. He has a National Title. He has coached a Heisman winner. (He has his team in a decent spot for one more of each this year). You can’t give all the credit for his success to his staff or the fact that he is at Texas. Don’t forget how average UT’s program was before Brown.
He has redeveloped the Longhorn brand into the success we see it as today. He has reached out to the boosters and alumni to fully capitalize on the base (see UT’s $113 million dollar stadium expansion bringing 98k fans to DKR which is about double the size of Jones).
To say he is only great because he has talent is kind of a funny argument. Leach has had his best season ever, and the best in TT history largely because he finally has better than average talent on offense (see Crabtree, Harrell, and Batch). Mack’s ability to bring in recruits is part of what makes him a brilliant coach. Leach isn’t a good coach because of Crabtree. Leach is a great coach because he found Crabtree and developed him as a talented WR.
Leach buried any hope of campaigning for TT yesterday when he proclaimed that OU should be ranked ahead of Texas and Tech. He should have been more aggressive and touted Tech’s resume. His dismissal of his own team will play in the fact that TT is now an afterthought in the MNC discussion.
by the1austin on
Nov 23, 2008 2:18 PM CST
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Look at my emphasis
You’re reading my comment as “Mack is AVERAGE”, which is not what I’m saying. I said, and I quote: “Mack is an average COACH”. Which is why I think Mack will be an amazing AD. (altho obviously there’s a recruiting loss component there)
Mack brings in INCREDIBLE talent (has he ever had a recruiting class out of the top 10 at Texas?), I explicitly stated that he excels at that. But he is not a “great” COACH. In the Mack Brown era how many games would you say you’ve won on “coaching”? (as opposed to your team just being flat out more talented than the other one) Two? Heck even your Rose Bowl win over USC, did that appear to be anything other than “Hey Vince, go find some way to win it” to you? Several plays in that games were "Vince takes the snap, looks downfield, sees nothing, runs for 20+ yards. That works in college because he’s more talented than most of the other players. In the pros it doesn’t work.
Mack Brown’s record at Texas is obscene, he’s never had less than 9 wins and for the last 8 years he’s always had at least 10 wins. But how does he fare against COMPARABLE talent:
4W – 15L vs. AP Top 10 at the start of this season. This year would add 3 – 1 (so far) to the tally, but two of the Ws are no longer top 10. And three of the previous wins all came in the same season. (OU, OhioState & USC in ’05) In the Mack Brown era (11 years this year), UT has a national championship, no denying that, but in ten years they also have ONLY 1 Big12 championship (same year) and three Big12 South Div. titles.
So, with top 5 recruiting classes every year, Mack Brown is able to win the Big12 South division 30% of the time and the Big12 as a whole (when it is the general consensus that the whole other half of the conference is unimpressive) a whopping 10% of the time. Mack brown won a NC? Yeah, and Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Mack is a GREAT administrator, and as I said, if he becomes AD and Muschamp becomes your coach, I would fear that UT team a LOT. But Mack is only an average COACH. Do you think Mike Leach would have only 1 Big12 title (or none) if he had had UT’s facilities and players for the last 10 years?
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 4:50 PM CST
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what is the story behind this?
Coach "I want to complain about Tech fans being excited and make innuendo that FANS were attacking my players on the field" Brown?
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 4:41 PM CST
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Mack's comments after the Tech game
“I want to brag on our kids and coaches for the class they showed after the game. I do think that the Big 12 and the NCAA should change settings where kids are mauled after the game on the field, it’s just really dangerous. It’s amazing to me that we sit around and talk about security all the time, and we’ll turn everybody loose – on the field, drinking, we don’t know what they have in their hands. I see Colt [McCoy] getting pushed and shoved after the game. I was in great shape because I had security all around me, but our kids don’t. I really appreciate our kids keeping their composure and handling things right. I never saw Coach Leach. I couldn’t get down to the Eyes of Texas for the first time that I’ve been at The University of Texas, and didn’t know where any of our players were.”
(emphasis mine) This was Mack’s comments MONDAY (well after everything was over and he was back in Austin). I was at the game, none of his players were harassed, if anyone can even show me how they were even TOUCHED after the game, I’d like to see. Also, while I’m sure people DO skirt said rules, isn’t against the rules to have alcohol at COLLEGE games? You can find several videos of the field rush on YouTube, I don’t see anyone “drinking” on the field. (and I didn’t see that when I was there, now OUTSIDE the stadium on University Ave, totally different story)
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 5:03 PM CST
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Mack's comments certainly weren't justified...
. . . because I definitely don’t remember seeing video of TTU fans trying to ram goalposts into the a&m section. Oh. Wait.
by mnHorn on
Nov 23, 2008 5:29 PM CST
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@_@
There is as much difference between fans attacking fans vs. fans attacking PLAYERS (and/or coaches) as there is between players attacking other players and players attacking fans. Fans v. fans and Players v. players happens all the time (I’m not saying that makes it good or justified, I’m just saying it happens a lot) RARELY does one group go after the other though. (Fans don’t usually do it because seriously, unless it’s at least 10-1, the players will kick their butts, and Players don’t do it because of the harsh penalties they’ll incur)
Regarding the goalposts, I never did see that, is it on youtube now, I’ve been curious. But it’s not like that incident was overblown. It’s not like the governor would blame Tech fans for hitting one of his Aggie companions only to have it be an aggie that did it. Oh. Wait..
by HeeroTX on
Nov 23, 2008 6:30 PM CST
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yeah
it does sound like he is whining there
If he had just said, “We need to find some way to keep these kids from rushing the field two times before a game is over”, he would have been within his rights.
I’m sure Colt McCoy probably got bumped by fans running onto the field, but I doubt he was assaulted by a phalanx of Tech fans.
It does bring up an interesting question, though: When you are playing in a hugely hyped game that has the potential for an upset and the fans rushing the field at the end, do you need a Plan B to make sure you can congratulate the coach the winning coach at the end of the game?
As for not getting to sing the eyes of texas, they can do that at the bus after the game. Boo hoo hoo. I don’t think it is Tech’s responsibility to make sure texas is able to take part in their postgame traditions in Lubbock.
by Beergut on
Nov 23, 2008 5:30 PM CST
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You're right on those points,
but I’m just pointing out that (at least some) TTU fans have shown themselves to be somewhat less than civilized in their victory antics.
by mnHorn on
Nov 23, 2008 5:34 PM CST
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BG, I can't believe you aren't more concerned about keeping traditions alive...
Imagine Tech fans disrupted Midnight Yell in Lubbock. I’m sure Aggies would be fine with that.
by the1austin on
Nov 23, 2008 7:28 PM CST
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i can help with the post-game grades
Offense: F. Mike was playing poker against someone who knew his hand. You can’t go over the top, and you can’t bluff you’re way out. And you definitely can’t run the same screen passes over and over when they keep getting stuffed on the line of scrimmage. OU even knew where the hot reads would be on every 3rd down blitz. WRs got bullied.
Defense: F. ‘bend but don’t break’ used to be good enough. Well, it broke. Hey, anybody seen Gresham? I know he’s around here somewhere. D-line got bullied.
by jeraco on
Nov 23, 2008 12:56 AM CST
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Delicious Logic...PS Whoever goes lets beat some SEC A$$
The south depends on three game, the favored teams listed first:
A) Texas Tech vs Baylor
B) Oklahoma vs Oklahoma State
C) Texas vs Texas A&M
If all three favored teams teams win the highest ranked team in the BCS standings will go to the championship game.
If A only is an upset, Texas will go to the championship
If B only is an upset, Texas Tech will go to the championship
If C only is an upset, Oklahoma will go the championship
If two are an upset, the winner of the third will go to the championship
If all three are an upset, Texas Tech will go to the championship, as Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would be eliminated after the first round of head to head.
by Oklahoma Horn Fan on
Nov 23, 2008 3:13 AM CST
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We’ll just do our best against Baylor and the chips can fall where they may.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 7:43 AM CST
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Not even worth responding to trash like that.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 10:08 AM CST
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Still Tech
I know it was hard last night but the OU coaching staff just knows Tech to well and knows how to beat them. Giving OU credit they played great . I already see UT fans on here talking crap. All I can say is Tech can still go 11-1 and play in a great bowl. Now we see if this is a new Tech team this year. In the past Tech will fold this next game. Time to see what kind of team this really is, ralley the troops.
Sorry UT fans your done, if OU beats OSU then they go play for the Big 12 and if OSU beats OU then Tech go, your not a factor.
by GPD on
Nov 23, 2008 10:11 AM CST
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Sorry for above
Tech would still have to beat a good Baylor team.
by GPD on
Nov 23, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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I would like to reiterate
that I can’t disagree more with the charges of Stoops running up the score or classlessness or chivalry or whatever the hell you call it. It’s an idiotic argument to make. Football is a game of violence, and if you don’t impose your will on the other team you will be dominated, and this domination will continue, not for one half, not for some pre-designated point spread, but for 60 whole minutes. It is what it is. Expecting head coaches to adhere to some vaguely defined unwritten rules of etiquette that sometimes apply and sometimes don’t like this is a cotillion is totally unrealistic and frankly pretty silly given the basic assumptions of the game. Any team that shows up on a football field that woefully unprepared should not expect anything but a 60 minute beatdown.
There’s also the matter of Coach Leach having this exact same philosophy- I’d be willing to bet that he’s glad OU kept running their offense so he’ll have more gametape to show the team immediately prior to having them run gassers for every yard DeMarco Murray earned after contact.
by mojavereject on
Nov 23, 2008 10:29 AM CST
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agree
It’s on Tech to stop them, which they are fully capable of doing. This was a Top-10 matchup, and OU was ranked below Tech. No excuses. Not going to turn into aggie by throwing around “classless” every other sentence. No offense to those who are old-school, but this issue is the last thing I’m thinking about.
by djollie111 on
Nov 23, 2008 10:41 AM CST
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Out Played
I agree, Tech was out played at all positions and out coached as well
GO TECH!!!
by mikeleachsmom on
Nov 23, 2008 10:50 AM CST
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It wasn't always like that
I guess it’s a matter of when you grew up. For me, there is absolutely no excuse for our 70-10 score against Nebraska last year, for instance. Not unless the last 30 points were scored by our 3rd string running dive plays all the way down the field. I know I’m old school on this, but that’s what sportsmanship used to mean. The object was and still is to win the game, not humiliate a bunch of teenagers. Domination was never part of the equation. If the pros want to do it that’s fine, but these are kids. I admit Leach had it coming, but those kids who have to live with this score didn’t have any say in it. Neither did those out-manned kids at Nebraska. I know kids in west Texas high schools are taught this even today, but suddenly one year later it’s perfectly alright? Sorry, but it’s not to me. Blaming it on the BCS is a cop-out, an excuse to abandon personal responsibility and basic human decency. Seems to be the way of the world today. It’s really serving us well.
by TT_ on
Nov 23, 2008 1:53 PM CST
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my thoughts are in my fan post
Wreck 'Em Tech!
J.T.H.
by redraidersax on
Nov 23, 2008 11:18 AM CST
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Tech 7th in the AP
1. Alabama (63) 11-0 1,622
2. Florida (2) 10-1 1,512
3. Oklahoma 10-1 1,486
4. Texas 10-1 1,482
5. USC 9-1 1,352
6. Penn State 11-1 1,238
7. Texas Tech 10-1 1,212
8. Utah 12-0 1,206
9. Boise State 11-0 1,064
10. Ohio State 10-2 1,043
by the1austin on
Nov 23, 2008 12:02 PM CST
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Deleted
Sorry, Seth…went in and deleted a bunch of crap UT troll posts…not in the mood for it today.
by Tech92 on
Nov 23, 2008 1:41 PM CST
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I think OU is very good, and they came out to play lastnight. That is what I hate about bye weeks because I don’t think we took it seriously. I also think you could have put the NY Giants against OU lastnight and OU would have won. I don’t feel that bad about it today. We played poorly and they played great. Kinda like the OSU/Tech game. They deserved to win. I know we can play with them because we did the last 2 years.
by ST04 on
Nov 23, 2008 1:49 PM CST
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NO-way should Texas be put ahead of Tech in the polls.No way.Texas and OU should remember this-Mizzou is waiting in the weeds….They are still playing football.If OU loses
to Mizzou in the championship.Then Tech would rise in the BCS standings.Even though they lost to OU.Like I keep hearing from all the so called idiots…..Lose late-you pay…..
“WRECK BAYLOR”
I hope there is not a seat to be had next week.You know If there are any of you throwing in the towel remember it’s better to be 10-1 then 0-10.Remember that.
by slycanyon on
Nov 23, 2008 2:27 PM CST
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NO way texas should be ranked ahead of tt?
Are you sure about that? On what basis?
I imagine it is something like “We beat them.” Well OU beat us, so OU shouldn’t be ranked below us. But UT beat OU, so they shouldn’t be ranked below OU… So what do you do? Tech on top? Why?
by Skin Patrol on
Nov 23, 2008 2:37 PM CST
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The Baylor game is a confirmed sellout
as for your other points, I think we can comfortably say that the OU team we played is a different animal than the one that UT beat, and nowhere did that shine through more than in the running game. We’re going to be taking a lot of shit in the weeks to come for this loss, but I think you will find that UT fans are secretly thanking their lucky stars that they don’t have to play OU this late in the season. They’re a tremendously talented team who, not unlike USC, has problems focussing and playing up to potential- but when they do… well, it’s scary.
by mojavereject on
Nov 23, 2008 3:07 PM CST
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Tech Laid the biggest Egg in school history against Sooners; still NC possible bound
I waited for a good long while before I wanted to post anything. I did not want my anger or let my out of control emotions post something I would regret later on.
The team came out flat and never looked right from the beginning. For what ever reason behind that, be it reading their own press, having too big a head, thinking OU would lay down to a no. 2 team has no meaning right now. They simply as a team did not show up mentally or physically last night.
The game plan on offense was ok. However, our offensive line was dominated by 3rd string players and it was embarrassing to watch our boys who are the best line in college football get physically whipped and beaten play after play. It was like they thought they were playing Texas A&M and did not have to put effort into the game. It was just bad. However, I can not lay any specific blame on any one player or players here because top down everyone stunk last night and it was a team effort at stinking up the field.
Harrell was frustrated and never got on track. Part of that is him part of it was the players around him. But I put no blame on Harrell either because he can not carry the total team. Other players have to step up and there was really no one who actually stepped up to the plate and delivered the lead to push past and on to greatness.
Defense…. This game was the first time I can say I was completely disappointed in the Defensive line. They were dominated and allowed themselves to be blocked and driven 5 plus yards off the line and out of the play all night. It was ugly and it was something not seen this year. There was no reason for it, but it happened. OU’s offensive line is not as good as UT’s so there it is. They just had no fire and no desire to go out and just bust someone in the mouth.
LBs. I can say that I was proud for the most part on a couple of these guys. They made plays when everyone else checked out mentally in the game. But you can not have just one or two players carrying the team. But there were series where they also checked out because of the lack of leadership to snap players out of the doldrums to lead the team to greatness.
Secondary….. The one good thing is that they did not look worse than the Dline. the bad part is that this was the worst game todate from the Secondary. Granted that the coaches screwed the pooch on this game with the defensive scheme. I predicted that if Tech went with a total zone effort that OU would cram yards down our throat and make us eat dirt. Unfortuntately, we do not seem to have the coaching staff at secondary to teach our boys better coverage methods. I listened to the Satilte Radio broadcast as I watched the game. Even they saw what I saw. They wondered why the hell our CBs and Safeties were 15 yards off the receivers. Then even with those cushions still got beaten deep! They were calling for man up in the second quarter as it could not be any worse than what was happening on the field and man up would allow for an extra back to roam on most plays.
I have been hard on the secondaries this season and on the coaches of the secondaries because this is a huge problem that was never resolved this season. It showed up like this against Nevada, Texas A&M, Nebraska and the first quarter against Kansas. The difference between all those other games and the OU was that our offense was able to compensate for the scheme screwups from the coaching staff.
However with all that said, the secondary did not do any worse than any other part of the team last night. We sucked big time on National TV as a team. No part of the team looked good. We had sparks of greatness but it was too little too late when those sparks showed up.
Some people would like to blame the refs or the home field advantage. It was neither even though the refs sucked again as they have in most games in the Big 12 all season. They screwed up several calls with a couple that hurt a couple of our offensive drives. But its not like we have not seen such bad calls before. Home field advantage helps in some respects but what was seen last night was not home field advantage. The stadium could have been empty like a Rice game and it would not have changed anything that happened.
Simply, Tech laid the biggest egg in school history against the Sooners on national TV.
Now the good news. I may have miss read the BCS standings But it looks like we did not suffer from the loss like I thought we would. In fact, its still possible for Tech to play for the National title as long as Tech completely destroys Baylor like the Sooners did to us. Its still possible for Tech to go to a BCS if I read the BCS hard sheet.
I was shocked! But I boys have been given a second chance to redeem the season against Baylor!
by Pablo M on
Nov 23, 2008 5:49 PM CST
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Regarding Sooner home field...
I think Home field helped the sooners as much as it helped us against UT. I was interested to read this quote from Crimson & Cream Machine:
"I’ve been attending Oklahoma football games since 1985 and I can honestly say that I don’t remember having ever seen a home crowd like the one we had Saturday nigh for the Texas Tech game. Bob Stoops threw down the gauntlet earlier in the week and the fans rose to the challenge.
The crowd of 86,646 (a record at crowd at OU) came early, stayed late and made constant noise. There is no way you’ll ever convince me that the Red Raiders weren’t rattled. Don’t believe me? Check out the looks on Mike Leach’s and Graham Harrell’s faces when the crowd took a moment to "Jump Around."
While I hate the outcome of the game, I for one am proud if we were able to motivate the Sooners enough to have a home crowd like they haven’t seen in at least 25 years. That shows that we’re moving up and that people care about our team. (there’s also reports of Stoops showing his respect to the crowd, for the part they played, after the game was over) So while I think OU was certainly more fired up and I can’t say I was impressed by our performance, I think it’s unfair to say the game would have gone the same at an empty house like a Rice game. Without that crowd, OU MIGHT not have been as fired up, and it probably would have been harder to sustain the intensity.
by HeeroTX on
Nov 24, 2008 9:46 AM CST
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correction please!
Hey TTredraideralum, Your nothing short of being a complete moran! Carter missed on frickin block the whole game. Fool!
And for you PRIMECUNT2012, go back to your school with your fake ass army and blow yourself!
by sand3807 on
Nov 23, 2008 5:50 PM CST
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Calling people names is not acceptable.
Especially like that.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
by Seth C on
Nov 23, 2008 6:08 PM CST
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So
we have the same talent as the Aggies. I’d argue we have less. Yet, we sit on the verge of an 11-1 season and a minimum $2mm bowl payout, while the more talented Aggies stare 4-8 in the face. I’ll take that lesser talent any day.
by Tech92 on
Nov 23, 2008 6:52 PM CST
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Thanks for the Ride, Texas Tech!
In spite of the disappointing loss last night, I’ll never forget this season. The astronomical highs and the heartbreaking lows. What a ride!
Wes Welker can't be stopped.
by 10forTech on
Nov 23, 2008 9:44 PM CST
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Whats with the A&M guy.
What the hell is he talking about, I’m proud of this Tech team. It was a bad loss but OU is clearly the best in the Big 12 right now. I will never jump ship on Tech. Now lets go finish it with a win over a good Baylor team that killed A&M. Time to see what this Tech team is made of.
Go Tech
by GPD on
Nov 24, 2008 12:22 AM CST
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"What's with the A&M guy?"
people have been asking that same question for decades.
by jeraco on
Nov 24, 2008 12:02 PM CST
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New FanPost
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