Texas Tech Does qualify for Fiesta
by Pablo M
on Dec 5, 2008 6:50 AM CST
I have posted on several threads which show with out question that Texas Tech can go to the Fiesta Bowl.
The reason is simple:
The BCS rules found here at http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/eligibility is there for all to read and see that I am speaking true.
Many people are ignoring a few facts.
First who are the teams that are considered by the BCS as automatic qualifiers.
They ar for the Big 12 teams:
Automatic Qualification
1. The top two teams in the final BCS Standings shall play in the National Championship Game.
2. The champions of the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 and Southeastern conferences will have automatic berths in one of the participating bowls after the 2008 through 2013 regular seasons.
3-4 deal with teams that are not BCS conferences. They are for Utah basically.
5. If any of the 10 slots remain open after application of provisions 1 through 4, and an at-large team from a conference with an annual automatic berth for its champion is ranked No. 3 in the final BCS Standings, that team will become an automatic qualifier, provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game. Oklahoma would deny Texas
6. If any of the 10 slots remain open after application of provisions 1 through 5, and if no team qualifies under paragraph No. 5 and an at-large team from a conference with an annual automatic berth for its champion is ranked No. 4 in the final BCS Standings, that team will become an automatic qualifier provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game. Okkahoma would deny Texas if they finished 4th.
Ok What have we learned. That #3 or #4 would normally be the selection to a BCS unless that conference sends a team to the NCG.
Since the assumption that Oklahoma will go to the NCG, then the ranking of 3 or 4 in the BCS means nothing for Texas. That is what the rules say for those ranked 3 and 4 above.
Ok What is an at large team and how does it apply to Texas Tech and the Big 12:
At-Large Eligibility
If there are fewer than 10 automatic qualifiers, then the bowls will select at-large participants to fill the remaining berths. An at-large team is any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible and meets the following requirements:
A. Has won at least nine regular-season games, and
B. Is among the top 14 teams in the final BCS Standings.
No more than two teams from a conference may be selected, regardless of whether they are automatic qualifiers or at-large selections, unless two non-champions from the same conference are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings.
Thus as the above points out, that it does not matter if the team is an automatic qualifier or not. But in the case of Texas Tech, Tech is an automatic qualifer but the problem is that the Big 12 has 3 teams which fit that definition and only two can be selected.
Ok, So Oklahoma goes to the NCG. Who then goes to the Fiesta according to the BCS rules?
Team-Selection Procedures
The bowls will select their participants from two pools: (1) automatic qualifiers, all of which must be selected, and, (2) at-large teams, if fewer than 10 teams qualify automatically. The following sequence will be used when establishing pairings:
1. The top two teams in the final BCS Standings will be placed in the National Championship Game ("NCG").
2. Unless they qualify to play in the NCG, the champions of selected conferences are contractually committed to host selected games:
Atlantic Coast Conference-Orange Bowl
Big Ten Conference-Rose Bowl
Big 12 Conference-Fiesta Bowl
Pac-10 Conference-Rose Bowl
Southeastern Conference-Sugar Bowl
3. If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. If two bowls lose host teams to the NCG, each bowl will get a replacement pick before any other selections are made. In such case, the bowl losing the No. 1 team gets the first replacement pick, and the bowl losing the No. 2 team gets the second replacement pick. If the Rose Bowl loses both the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions to the NCG, it will receive two replacement picks.
DID YOU SEE IT???? One more time!!!!! "If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. "
Ok who are the automatic qualifying teams for the Big 12? The Big 12 champion and any team ranked 1 or 2. Thus only Oklahoma satisfies the rule as it is defined.
Thus Texas and Texas Tech qualifies because it satisfies the rule under
A. Has won at least nine regular-season games, and
B. Is among the top 14 teams in the final BCS Standings.
Thus the Fiesta will have to replace Oklahoma.
Thus the Fiesta will selected between Texas and Texas Tech based on the following:
Team-Selection Procedures
A bowl choosing a replacement team may not select any of the following:
A. A team in the NCG;
B. The host team for another BCS Bowl;
C. When two bowls lose host teams, then the bowl losing the number one team may not select a replacement team from the same conference as the number two team, unless the bowl losing the number two team consents.
4. After steps No. 1, 2 and 3 have been completed, any bowl with an unfilled slot shall select a team from the automatic qualifiers and/or at-large teams in the following order:
A. The bowl played on the date nearest to the National Championship Game (for 2009, Fiesta Bowl) will pick first;
B. The bowl played on the date second-nearest to the National Championship Game (for 2009, Sugar Bowl) will pick second;
C. The bowl hosting the game that is played in the time slot immediately after the Rose Bowl game (for 2009, Orange Bowl) will pick third.
The rotation noted in paragraphs A, B and C is as follows:
January 2007 games: Sugar, Orange, Fiesta
January 2008 games: Orange, Fiesta, Sugar
January 2009 games: Fiesta, Sugar, Orange
January 2010 games: Orange, Fiesta, Sugar
All teams earning automatic berths must be selected.
5. After completion of the selection process as described in Paragraph Nos. 1-4, the conferences and Notre Dame may, but are not required to, adjust the pairings taking into consideration the following:
A. whether the same team will be playing in the same bowl game for two consecutive years;
B. whether two teams that played against one another in the regular season will be paired against one another in a bowl game;
C. whether the same two teams will play against each other in a bowl game for two consecutive years; and
D. whether alternative pairings may have greater or lesser appeal to college football fans as measured by expected ticket sales for the bowls and by expected television interest, and the consequent financial impact on Fox and the bowls.
The rules are very clear! Texas Tech can go to the Fiesta should the Fiesta wish to select our Red Raiders over Texas.
Subsection D is where Texas Tech really out shines Texas because Texas Tech is a team many around the country have tuned in to watch an Texas Tech Fans spend money very well when they travel to bowls.
There is no reason for us Fans to give up on the Fiesta without showing some kind of fight and demand at least a review from the Fiesta Selection Board.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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you are SOOOOOO wrong starting at the first section you bolded.
provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game
key word here is at-large. Oklahoma will not be an at large selection for the national championship game because they will have won the conference championship game. In the same sense, if the right teams lose this weekend, including Oklahoma, and TTU climbs into the top 4, we will not qualify for that spot because UT will have been selected as an at-large team in the BCS Championship game.
You’re welcome to delete your post. The only way tech can get into the BCS is if UT falls out of the top 5.
by kayakyakr on Dec 5, 2008 8:33 AM CST 0 recs
Paradox
But, if a team qualifies for the NCG, wouldn’t they be an automatic qualifer, not an at-large team? I’ve been confused on this all week, and I think only a BCS spokesperson can answer that. It looks to me like the phrase “at-large” should be ignored, because there is no such thing as an “at-large” (by defenition) team for the NCG.
by djollie111 on
Dec 5, 2008 9:39 AM CST
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Either way
Even if Fiesta has Tech as a choice, I doubt they will turn down the $$ that Texas will bring to the table.
by djollie111 on
Dec 5, 2008 9:43 AM CST
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Tech is not an automatic qualifier. They are an at large qualifier and therefore take a back seat in the selection process to automatic qualifiers.
Pablo refuses to acknowledge that the rules must be followed in order and that Texas IS an automatic qualifier.
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 9:44 AM CST
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see my fanpost
with a response on this directly from the BCS
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 10:19 AM CST
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Kayakyakr
Actually Oklahoma is an automatic birth team to both the NCG and the Fiesta.
The key to the point is the sentence before it. A conference who has an automatic berth whose conference Champion is ranked #3.
This can not happen. Because Oklahoma will either be 1 or 2 if they beat Missouri. Thus Texas does not qualify for an automatic berth because of that little problem of not being the conference Champion.
Insert same for 4th ranked. Thus it matters not if Texas was 3rd or 4th in the BCS because if Oklahoma is the conference champion, it removes the automatic berth for the 3rd or 4th.
Thus its impossible for Texas to be the at large team and be the conference champ. Which is my point.
Thus Because Oklahoma has two automatic issues to both the NCG and to the Fiesta causes the issue to be forced.
Because Oklahoma will go to the NCG, the Fiesta will not have the Big 12 Champion. Thus the slot is vacant and there will not be 10 teams listed. for all the 5 BCS bowls.
Thus the Fiesta will have to get a replacement team from the at large group of the Big 12 who qualify to be in a BCS.
I think your having a problem with the term automatic qualifer verses automatic berth. They are not the same thing.
An example. Would be a team who is ranked say 3rd but not the conference champ because the champ can not go to a bowl By default the #3 team goes in place of the other team. This was put into place because of Auburn who was winning SEC but could not go to the bowls because of NCAA violations.
Another example is Norte Dame displacing a team. That displaced team would be considered an automatic qualifer.
However, for the Big 12, There is only one automatic berth. There were two years where the Big 12 only sent a team to the Fiesta. When was the last time the Big 12 had 4 teams in the top14? Never!
The truth is that Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State are technically able to fill the At Large spot.
But the term At large applies to any team in the Big 12 who is not the Conference Champ or who is ranked 1 or 2 and has 9 wins or more and ranked 14th or better in the BCS.
Oklahoma currently is the only team in the Big 12 who is not an at large team. Should Missouri beat Oklahoma then Missouri would be the Automatic berth and not an at large team
Another issue would be Missouri beats Oklahoma, Texas gets the #2 spot. Thus there would be no at large spots available for the Big 12.
by Pablo M on
Dec 5, 2008 10:19 AM CST
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You’re still wrong.
the #3 and #4 provisions apply to at-large (ie, in this case, non-conference champions) teams from BCS conferences. It doesn’t matter where the conference champion goes.
The part where it talks about at-large refers to a team who is not a conference champion.
Also, I think you are confused with the Fiesta bowl’s obligation. They do not have to choose a big XII school if the big XII champion is in the national championship game. They could easily go out and pick Ohio State vs. Boise State if they so chose.
by kayakyakr on
Dec 5, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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post where it says
That the Number 3 gets an automatic berth when the Big 12 has a NCG team. That is the issue.
The case is how the Fiesta replaces Oklahoma provided that they beat Missouri.
Simply there is nothing anywhere in the rules which says that should the Big 12 have a #3 or a #7 or a $14 has to be selected based on BCS position.
Secondly, The Fiesta gets to choose who it wants over all other bowls. Thus if say the Orange wanted #3 Texas, they may not get the chance because the Fiesta gets to choose over the Orange who it wants.
Thus we are back at the definition of the At large replacement from within the Big 12.
Thus its possible. I am not saying that its a sure thing. But the point is that the Fiesta can choose Texas Tech if they really wanted to.
by Pablo M on
Dec 5, 2008 10:36 AM CST
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that’s what I’m telling you, there is no “At-large” replacement from within the big XII. Texas in position #3 or #4 will be an automatic qualifier based on the final two provisions in the selection order.
by kayakyakr on
Dec 5, 2008 11:35 AM CST
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This is a joke, right?
The key to the point is the sentence before it. A conference who has an automatic berth whose conference Champion is ranked #3.
It doesn’t say that the conference champion is #3….
by natkcole on
Dec 5, 2008 10:27 AM CST
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No Joke
If any of the 10 slots remain open after application of provisions 1 through 4, and an at-large team from a conference with an annual automatic berth for its champion is ranked No. 3 in the final BCS Standings, that team will become an automatic qualifier, provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game.
We are talking about conferences which has an automatic berth. That is the SEC, Big 10, PAC 10, ACC, BIg East and Big 12. That is 7 teams which are given an automatic berth. Then you have the issue of #1 and #2 which are also automatic berths. Thus that gives 9 teams plus the one berth from a Non BCS conference which gives the 10th berth spot.
Thus under rule 5, Texas being ranked #3 would be an automatic qualifier if no other team in the Big 12 went to the NCG. But because Oklahoma will go to the NCG, Texas does not get the automatic berth!
This rule is refering to Conferences who have automatic annual BCS berths. Which is the Big 12. But because Oklahoma would be going to the NCG the rule says " provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game."
by Pablo M on
Dec 5, 2008 10:45 AM CST
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Give it UP!
The BCS confirmed in an email what everyone but you understands. See my fanpost
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 10:47 AM CST
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give up and move on to the next step
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/ad/grief.htm
#1. Denial
#2. Get mad (anger)
#3. Bargaining: This may be where you are.
#4. Acceptance: This is where most of us currently are, we hope you’ll join us, because every time I see you post one of these, I get MY hopes up again, only to have to repeat steps 1-4 again.
#5. This, too, shall pass away
Time is a great healer.
by Plano Jeff on Dec 5, 2008 9:26 AM CST 0 recs
so if
OU beats Mizzu
Florida Beats Bama
and florida does not pass texas in the bcs rankings that would leave ou/tx 1 and 2 in the bcs there for the fiesta bowl loses it 2 hosts which means that the possilbity of them picking tech increases.
dont loose faith on this year as if leach leaves and with all the players leaving and probably a new system in place tech will in for a bad year next year.
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on Dec 5, 2008 9:32 AM CST 0 recs
no
No more than two teams from a conference may be selected, regardless of whether they are automatic qualifiers or at-large selections, unless two non-champions from the same conference are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings.
OU would be conf champion, so a third could not be selected from the Big12.
by djollie111 on
Dec 5, 2008 9:37 AM CST
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Djolie111
Actually, if the Big 12 did send two teams to the NCG, then the next at large qualifying team from the big 12 goes to the Fiesta.
Also, Texas is not an automatic qualifier and neither is Tech. They are BCS qualified which may confuse people.
Thus the automatic bids for the BCS is champion goes to the Fiesta. But should the Champion be a 1 or 2 in the BCS then they have to take from the Big 12 the qualified teams who can be in a BCS bowl.
That requirement is 9 plus wins and be 12th or better in the BCS rankings.
Its nothing more than that.
by Pablo M on Dec 5, 2008 9:47 AM CST 0 recs
wrong again
No more than two teams from a conference may be selected, regardless of whether they are automatic qualifiers or at-large selections, unless two non-champions from the same conference are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings.
no no no. only 2 teams per conference.
by johnlaf13 on
Dec 5, 2008 9:59 AM CST
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Still not following the rules int he order in which they were written. Texas becomes an automatic qualifier. You can’t just ignore rule 5 and 6 for AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION because you don’t like the results.
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 10:05 AM CST
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Fiesta not obligated to B12
If OU goes to the NCG, the Fiesta simply gets a replacement pick from the automatic/at-large pool. They are not obligated to pick a Big12 team for the replacement.
The 2 teams rule is clear. No more than 2 from a conference unless 2 non-champions are in the NCG (then conf champion would go to host game as well, making 3 teams).
by djollie111 on
Dec 5, 2008 2:07 PM CST
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Sure, Tech CAN Go.....
But we WON’T go. UT will be invited, not us. Period.
Go Tech!!!
by jwhitettu on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM CST 0 recs
This Should not suprise anyone!
California at #4 is a prime example of a team who was knocked out of the BCS because the Rose Bowl chose Norte Dame over them. The Rose Bowl gave economic reasons for the choice which trumped the BCS ranking.
Thus Texas can lose out of the Fiesta just Like California did if the Fiesta wants Texas Tech more than Texas.
This rule also applied to Kansas last year when the Orange took them over Missouri. who was ranked higher.
This happens more often than people realize. Tech has a shot. A Slim shot but none the less a legit shot at going to the Fiesta if we promote it a bit better.
by Pablo M on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST 0 recs
Cal example was because of the Notre Dame exception rule in the BCS. It is not the same.
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 10:07 AM CST
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What??
California at #4 is a prime example of a team who was knocked out of the BCS because the Rose Bowl chose Norte Dame over them. The Rose Bowl gave economic reasons for the choice which trumped the BCS ranking.
California was not #4, they were #5. Texas was #4 and went to the Rose Bowl that year (2004). Notre Dame wasn’t ranked in the top 25 and went to the Insight Bowl and has not been to the Rose Bowl since 1924. Look it up.
This rule also applied to Kansas last year when the Orange took them over Missouri. who was ranked higher.
Ranked higher, but not in the top 4. Missouri was ranked #6 and Kansas #8.
by natkcole on
Dec 5, 2008 10:12 AM CST
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Yah...
in 2004 the Rose Bowl didn’t “choose” Notre Dame, that was the Michigan-Texas game where Vince Young introduced himself.
by Skin Patrol on
Dec 5, 2008 10:14 AM CST
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Your right
I just knew that the Rose chose another team over California who was ranked 4th.
by Pablo M on
Dec 5, 2008 10:24 AM CST
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cal wasn’t ranked 4th, they were ranked 5th.
That year there were only 8 BCS slots. 7 qualifiers, including the Utah Utes who were the first “BCS Busters”, and Texas as the at-large #4.
by kayakyakr on
Dec 5, 2008 10:33 AM CST
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KU chosen over Mizzou...
In my opinion is apples and oranges to Tech chosen over Texas. For what it’s worth Pablo, I hope we go! I really do. I think that UT just has too much. It, for the Fiesta selection committee, will be a no-brainer, I muse.
Go Tech!!!
by jwhitettu on Dec 5, 2008 9:56 AM CST 0 recs
I also hope we go
I am not deluded into thinking that our chances a lock. But what gets me is people giving up to Texas without even a slight whimper of a fight.
Yea, I am realistic in that Texas is the #3 team and that is always an attractive pull. Texas also is a major name accross the USA. But I think there is an outside chance based on economics that Tech could be selected over Texas. Basically, Texas has a problem. They have good teams in the major sports to the point that the money is divided. At Tech the money is not divided right now but you have most of the Tech fans who do out spend Texas fans because of the little fact.
Tech set 2 TV viewer ratings for both the Texas and OSU games. Oklahoma was not as high as Texas and OSU even though it was the 3rd straight ABC broadcast. There is plenty of people across the nation who would like to see Tech.
But I am realistic. But I hate it when people sell our team short and deny what is possible.
by Pablo M on
Dec 5, 2008 10:30 AM CST
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Please clarify.
Basically, Texas has a problem. They have good teams in the major sports to the point that the money is divided. At Tech the money is not divided right now but you have most of the Tech fans who do out spend Texas fans because of the little fact.
What?
by the1austin on
Dec 5, 2008 11:58 AM CST
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i don’t think that is an accurate statement. Although I wish Tech had the support across the nation that UT has, it is not even close with UT’s constant national exposure, larger alumni base, and overall superior marketing/merchandise sales.
In the statement, I’m not sure if Pablo is talking about splitting of money in UT’s total athletic budget being so much higher or spending by fans. Tech spends a higher PERCENTAGE of their budget on football, but is still outspent in total dollars on an annual basis. And if he is talking about fans splitting their money between football and other sports, that is an even weaker and inaccurate argument. UT fans outspend Tech fans by WAY more in all sports, PARTICULARLY in football. That is why they have such a massive stadium compared to Tech, among other things. And I don’t see how being good at other sports is a negative. If a person is wearing a baseball jersey or basketball jersey, that is only going to promote the UT name, not take away from their football team.
Tech has gotten its feet wet this year on the national scene, but it will take a while for them to compete with the ultra-riches of the world, like UT. I’m not trying to be negative towards Pablo or bitter about being smaller than UT, but it is reality. Money talks and UT has way more cash, fans, and support. That is what happens when they were created first and therefore have been #1 school in the state for so long. It is not going away over night.
Besides, does anyone really think the big bowls really care about football? It is all about getting the biggest names to bring in the most money. And for the doubters, that is why there is a “Notre Dame” clause in all the rules (who continues to get bids (when they actually qualify) despite losing like 10? in a row).
by pcrawttu on
Dec 5, 2008 2:51 PM CST
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Exactly
The actual matchup and game is somewhere around Priority #284 for bowl executives.
by Tech92 on
Dec 5, 2008 5:01 PM CST
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Hillarious
When I was practicing law I learned that there are some people who aren’t worth arguing with because they just do not and apparently will not ever get it. This would appear one of those circumstances.
Apparently, the louder and longer he talks the more he believes he will convince others to his “views.” How many threads and comments do we need from Pablo saying the same thing, over and over?
by jeffinhouston on Dec 5, 2008 10:51 AM CST 0 recs
It's not for Pablo
It’s for all of the people he is confusing
by NM99 on
Dec 5, 2008 11:01 AM CST
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I’m considering closing down this post for that reason.
by kayakyakr on
Dec 5, 2008 11:36 AM CST
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Cotton. Hopefully.
OU loses this week, we could be headed to the Holiday Bowl.
by natkcole on
Dec 5, 2008 1:38 PM CST
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Shhhhhh
Don’t let the others know that. Could cause another panic.
by Tech92 on
Dec 5, 2008 4:59 PM CST
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here's an idea...
Why don’t we just let NM99 decide what is and isn’t worth posting, then we wouldn’t have to waste our time reading anyone else’s impressions or opinions.
MOST of what is posted on this and other blogs contains huge doses of opinion, speculation and interpretation. I read the BCS’ rules, and decided it would take a lawyer to understand them, and even then, you could have quite a debate.
What will be, will be. And it will be, even if only NM99 is the ONLY one who gets it.
by natsnagrom on Dec 5, 2008 3:39 PM CST 0 recs
problem isn’t that there have been opinion. the problem is that his opinion is confusing and misleading and dealing with a situation where there is a factual representation.
by kayakyakr on
Dec 5, 2008 4:26 PM CST
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I have to defend NM99 on this one. The exchange of opinions was less than cordial or respectful. Not only on this blog, but others as well concerning the exact same subject by the same person. It just got frustrating and confused a lot of people for no good reason.
by natkcole on
Dec 5, 2008 6:13 PM CST
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So sad so sad
Seeing so many people who do not know what is what!
I watchwd today two shows. One was Gameday and the other was Big 12 showcase.
SO one was on ESPN and the other was Fox Sports.
They both used the same language when talking about bowls and Projections.
When they both talked about an Oklahoma win over Missouri, they used the term Texas will most likely be chosen for the Fiesta.
Where as both said that Nebraska was an absolute lock with the Insight Bowl.
The point here is that people who are knowlegeable about the rules understands that that there is an outside underdog chance for Texas Tech to go to the Fiesta over Texas.
It saddens me to see Texas Tech fans give up or fail to read the rules completely. It reminds me of an MIT test I took. I had two pages of questions on Physics. The instructions said that there test was timed and speed taking the test counted. It also said to read the test first before answering any question or you may get an F.
Most kids worked like mad answering all the questions as fast as they could. A few did as the instructions said. Because the last questions said write your name again and turn in the paper without anwering any previous question for an A.
Thus only 4 out of 343 students got an A.
So all those who say that Texas Tech has zero chance at going to the Fiesta because they can not qualifty for the Fiesta would be given an F.
The truth is that Texas Tech has a chance. They do qualify to be considered. Its not a lock for either Texas or Texas Tech. Its up to the Fiesta as to who they want who they feel will be more economical to create more TV viewers and boost local merchandise sales. That will be the deciding factor.
Thus all those who are blinded by short sightedness and low reading comprehension should just acknowledge the truth and accept the facts from those who are knowledgeable.
Now Texas Tech is an outside chance or a huge Underdog to get the nod over Texas. But Texas does not have the absolute lock for the Fiesta should Oklahoma beat Missouri no matter how many disappointed Texas Tech fans who are pulling for a lower bowl as a sure thing rather than at least making a little noise for what could be.
by Pablo M on Dec 6, 2008 5:46 PM CST 0 recs
New FanPost
