R.I.P. Vetical Pass.....???
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 10:14 AM CDT
39 comments
Given that Halloween is just around the corner, I have been wondering whether it's time to put a tombstone at the head of the grave that now marks the resting place of our vertical passing game. Remember the days when we used to see the likes of a young Carlos Francis streaking down the sideline, 30 yards down field, beating his man by a few steps, and making the grab? Sure I do remember him dropping a few of those too, but you man I miss those days. With each successive season it seems we look less and less at stretching the field verticaly in favor of short, high percentage passes, and live and die by yards after the catch. Don't get me wrong, I realize the place in the offense for the short pass, and do remember Crab sneaking downfield a couple of times (more at in his first year than later), but one truth remains:
-the run game opens up the pass
-the pass game opens up the run
-the short pass opens up the vertical
-THE VERTICAL OPENS THE SHORT PASS!
After watching screen after screen get blown up against OK last year, and again against A&M, I have to pine for the days when atleast once a series we would take our shots down the field. May I remind us all that we did this with less talented recievers, QBs and linemane than we have today. So raise you pirate goblets with me this Hallows Eve as we pay homage to the lost and dying art of the long ball, and bid farwell to the honesty it use to demand of defense backs accross this great conference. ARRRGGGHHH
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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I would love to see the vertical pass, but we don’t have to protection right now to give the qb time. It would be great to set it up off play action to also free up a check off on the underneath route.
by ST04 on Oct 28, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
“… we don’t have to protection right now to give the qb time.” That pretty much sums up everything that’s gone wrong with the offense this year.
This is what happens when you lose 3/5th’s of your starters along the line including 2 NFL caliber guys.
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Oct 28, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheffield did a decent job
I think SS did a decent job of getting it downfield. If you discount the Nebraska game where we started playing with a lead early and went into a conservative offensive scheme, then I think SS showed in the second half of UNM and all of kstate an ability to use his legs to buy time and then go over the top of people. Not all of them went for TDs, but unless my memory is distorted I remember many balls thrown 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage.
I’m thinking the vertical pass may be dead for right now (died with Sheffield), but it’ll be back when he returns. And I agree that it is key to opening up other parts of the game. I think it helps oline and everyone out because then the DBs have to play more honest and can’t just sell out to stop the short play.
by RAIDERdweb on Oct 28, 2009 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree with the above. Sheffield was making a concerted effort to push the ball downfield much, much more than Potts ever did. I don’t recall Potts ever throwing the ball more than 20 yds in the air. I know our offense isn’t built on the deep pass, but we typically have at least one of the guys downfield to at least create space. Sheff just happened to look for that guy pretty frequently, which I loved.
by Tech92 on Oct 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that is one thing that I looked forward to . . .
Potts has a cannon for an arm. Even during the Harrell era, I was looking forward to Potts’ ability to stretch the field. I am not sure if it was his reads or lack of OL protection, but the long ball was never thrown and that potential unrealized.
by CRV on Oct 28, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you...
and I see what you see in terms of the “cause” (the line), but I am asking why we have let this become our reality? And to be honest, even with last years stout line, we rarely took those shots down field. Nothing against SS, but a 12 yard crossing route over the middle is not stretching the field. I am asking for an attempt to get behind the safties from time to time.
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sheffield did exactly that several times in each game he has been in.
by Tech92 on Oct 28, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree that it could be better
I agree that it could be even better, but I was trying to point out that in 2.5 games Sheffield made a concerted effort to push the ball a little further. Huge difference between him and Potts and the little bit we’ve seen of Doege who seem content with the dink and dunk type of passes. Sheffield made some good passes to the sideline that tested safeties and corners in the secondary. And given that he hasn’t had much time to do so (oline struggling) I like the effort he has put into to not giving into only short passes.
by RAIDERdweb on Oct 28, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This begs the question…If Potts has such a gun for an arm (like we know he has), what go is it if he won’t throw it more than 20 yards in a game?
by pcrawttu on Oct 28, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps...
we can get one of the stat guys around here to find out how many times this season we have completed passes longer than 20 yards (before Yards after catch). Not sure if that’s possible, but may shed some light.
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe....
what I miss most is that 3 or 4 second moment when I couldn’t breath, and my heart would stop, as I waited for the long bomb to be caught back in the day. Now I get the same loss of breath and blood flow, it’s just in response to waiting to see if the QB will get sacked or intercepted on a 5 yard out in the red zone.
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Remind me when this was TTU?
I see what you’re saying, but I can’t really remember a Tech QB where this was the norm. Every now and then we break a big one, but the whole offense is based on yards after the catch. Unless there is a busted coverage we don’t really have plays that go longer than 20 yards.
by RAIDERdweb on Oct 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can remember...
vivdly the norm on 2nd and short was to stretch the field vertically. Now 2nd and short is a quik horizontal screen pass to the sideline. Surely you can remember when that wasn’t always the case?
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And those 30-yard throws right down the middle between the zones – like on the first drive against UT last year.
by TechFirst on Oct 28, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are exactly....
what I am talking about, and should be an integral part of all 4 quaters of every game we play. Keep them honest, in 2nd and short, take a shot from time to time, and do it consistantly enough that D-backs have to respect it.
by TTUMAR on Oct 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I understand....
what you are talking about and I really think that SS has shown us the ability to do that. There are obviously limitations as he doesn’t have all the time that Harrell had last year. I think there are two contributors to the problem you mention 1) crappy oline play, 2) lack of confidence in Potts/Doege so that the play calls are conservative. I see how the frustrations you mention are especially prevalent against aTm this past weekend, everything was a short dump pass to the sideline. I still say this is a problem limited to Potts and Doege just because he hasn’t gotten the reps. I don’t see it being a persistent problem as our oline improves and when we get a confident QB in the backfield, IMO.
by RAIDERdweb on Oct 28, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
The game plan was clearly to stick with the short stuff. Unfortunately, that was exactly what atm had figured on. And until we at least make a showing of going long, our future opponents are going to be planning the same. Seems the same re: the running game. If Batch is getting 5 yds a pop, make them respect it.
by TechFirst on Oct 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Joe Toliver used to heave long bombs fairly regularly…but since him? I can’t think of anyone.
by Tech92 on Oct 28, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrell....
threw some to Brittain but of course he’s been absent all season long.
by Raider1992 on Oct 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrell was really bad at the long pass. I can’t tell you how many times I was ready to dive angrily through my TV watching Crabtree stop, with no defender within 5 yards, and wait for the rainbow to come down. Sure, we’d make a nice 30 yd gain, but there were probably seven or eight that should have been long TDs had he hit him in stride. Oh well…
by Tech92 on Oct 28, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference between Potts/Sheffield is "touch"
Sheffield has it, Potts doesn’t. Example a) pass to Leong on 3rd and 13 against NU on our first drive, that ball had just enough air on it to get over the corner and not enough to give the safety a play on it meaning Leong had the best chance to catch it. Shef does a good job of adjusting his velocity, trajectory to match the receiver. Potts seems to want to gun everything in there.
by RAIDERdweb on Oct 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more
This really stood out to me in the Houston game, and drove its way home with A&M… Potts has an absolute Lazer Cannon for an arm… nobody can take that away from him… The problem is that he just doesn’t ever put touch on the ball, hence the ball sailing over heads on a short flat route and getting picked… or so many passes dropped out of the backfield cus the backs got drilled with the ball. Sticks does great with this, which is why we look like a completely different team when he is in.
by Vassago77379 on Oct 28, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This...
is my thought EXACTLY. I think this is also the reason we see the recievers drop so damned many passes when Potts is out there.
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Oct 28, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been to two home games so far – Rice and atm. In both I could hear the ball smack into the receivers’ hands when Potts was throwing, no matter what the distance. I guess we could arge about whether a starter should be able to catch all of these. Nevertheless, it seems the number of drops went down markedly when SS was playing (just my impression – no hard facts to back that up).
by TechFirst on Oct 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But . . .
the drops aren’t limited to Potts’s passes. I believe we demonstrated that quite clearly throughout the tamu game. If a ball hits the receiver in the hands or core body, it should be caught — plain and simple. “Touch” is key on our end zone fade routes, but it’s not mandatory on a screen pass or into the flats. As LB’s become faster, velocity will become even more critical in the short game. Run a good route, focus on the ball, catch with hands in proper position, secure the ball, THEN find a lane.
by CRV on Oct 28, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the lack of deep passes
My first season to watch Tech football was 2004 and while Cumbie throwing the ball was pretty scary all season (despite redeeming himself in the Holiday bowl), his most successful plays were definitely the deep fade to Jarrett Hicks or Trey Haverty… I agree Sticks throws it deep much more (and more effectively) than Potts did, but it just doesn’t happen even half as much as it did then. The deep bombs are what made our offense exciting and fun to watch… it’s still enjoyable but short screens and slants are not what the people are paying to see
by batmantt on Oct 28, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as it works, I am fine with what we run on offense. I’d be fine with a pro-style offense if we could win with it. That said, the long pass threat softens up a defense a little bit and gives the WR more room to run when he does catch that 7 yard slant. If the defense knows that Tech will only air it out once every third game, they can flood the middle of the field with all the guys they can muster and make it difficult to get YAC.
by Tech92 on Oct 28, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't WWE . . .
where we have to create theatrics and drama to satisfy the fan and justify their ticket purchase. If the goal is to win games, move the ball and score based upon what the defense gives you. If you want the ESPN highlight reel, break out the Madden and thumb it up. Shorter completions should translate into increased time of possession, which would give the D some additional recovery and adjustment time. I only like to see the deep route for a couple of reasons: 1) keep the secondary honest in their coverage and 2) knowing that it’s there for a comeback situation. I take far more pleasure in a victory than a long bomb.
by CRV on Oct 28, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t exactly suggesting we bomb it every play…and quite honestly I think regardless of long bombs or short passes, we won’t be able to have much success with either until we have any threat whatsoever to run the ball. Right now defenses only have to worry about shutting down passes under 10 yards as we aren’t going to run it and we aren’t going to throw it deep.
by batmantt on Oct 29, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with batmantt
Cumbie threw a great deep ball and most of the time he was flat footed. I watched the KU replay from 2004 and it was something special to watch that guy chunk it deep. Granted he was picked off 3 or 4 times in that game but Sonny loved airing it out back in the day. Remember that bomb to Hicks he threw against Nebraska in the 70-10 game? One of my favorite Tech plays of all time!
by Remington870 on Oct 28, 2009 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When the offense that Tech runs is on all cylinders, it really can’t be stopped. That’s been proven. The problem is, offenses rarely run on all cylinders for long stretches. Teams that are successful are able to offset a pass attack that is struggling with a run game, or alterted passing game, and vice versa.
Tech’s issue is that when we don’t click, we completely fail to do anything at all. There is no Plan B with Tech’s offense, and that is the maddening thing with it. We don’t have any ability to adjust on the fly – or if we do, we certainly don’t seem to do it well in crisis times of a game.
by Tech92 on Oct 29, 2009 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Plan B is to run the piss out of it......
Plan B is not something Leach falls to very often…. Or ever depending on how you want to word it….
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
by KWashburn on Oct 29, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what the run game was suppose to do
With the advent of an actually TTU rushing attack, we should back on top of the vertical pass and stretching the field. I agree that is due much to a lack of seasoned players. Baron Batch seems to be the only verteran with a little fire under his belt. Others like Detron Lewis and Tremain Swindall have not lit a fire yet in their positions. I think once we settle into a quarterback (which may be in 2010) and get our young guns like Alex Torres, Lyle Leong, Jacobie Franks, etc used to making the “big plays” we will see this stretch-field play begin.
I’ve been saying this all year: Tech fans just need to be patient. Next year is going to be a crazy year for Tech. We WILL be the seasoned team and I expect a transfer of power in the Big 12 South. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say be watching for a Tech Heisman contender in 2010. To quote Harvey Dent “The night is darkest just before the dawn, and the dawn is coming.”
by LBKpiratefan on Oct 29, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know what I miss hearing....
Neamiah Glover!! Those where the days!!
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
by KWashburn on Oct 29, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Last I heard he was on flag football /7-7 team somewhere around here.....
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
by KWashburn on Oct 29, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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