Brain Injuries, Independent Doctors and Taylor Potts
by Seth C on Oct 30, 2009 9:00 AM CDT
in Texas Tech Football
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I fully acknowledge that this is a bit of a stretch so just bear with me. Earlier this week I ran across this article from Chris Brown's Smart Football regarding football teams, brain injuries and independent doctors. I want to say first and foremost, I do not think that any college medical staff would ever put a player in danger, but this quote made me pause in regards to the thought that NFL teams should have independent doctors on the sidelines (emphasis by Brown):
"What this committee has to understand is, the team doctor is hired by the coach and paid by the front office," Culverhouse said. "This team doctor is not an advocate for the players. That doctor’s role is to get those players back on the field. I have seen a wall of players surround a player as he has his knee injected so he can get back on the field.
"The players get to a point where they refuse to tell the team doctor they have suffered a concussion. They do not self-report because they know there is a backup player on the bench ready to take their position. The team doctor dresses as a coach on the sideline and he acts in many ways as a coach on the sideline. If a player chooses independent medical counsel he is considered ‘not a team player.’ He becomes a pariah. We need to stop that." . . .
Do you guys think that the same thing should be done on the collegiate level? Obviously, there is a point where the responsibility is on the player to report the injury and I do not think it's completely unrealistic for a player, namely QB Taylor Potts, to not report a concussion because he's a proud person and may have been concerned about being replaced or has NFL aspirations and wants to show the world he can play through most circumstances. Who has the ultimate responsibility here? Is it the player? The medical staff? A little of both? There has to be honesty here on both parties, and the coaches as well.
I'd love your general thoughts on the matter.
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You'll find this in high school too.
Granted, it takes a huge step transitioning to college since there is so much more at stake. I don’t think you’re ever really going to see this happening anywhere unless it becomes a MAJOR issue with the NCAA. A really high-profile quarterback is going to have to die or become a vegetable for this to happen. I hate to say that, but that’s usually the way things go. No one will take the step to enact change unless there is a tragedy.
Good post.
First and foremost, I don’t believe coach Leach or anyone associated with our program would put a player in any danger by bringing them back too quickly.
Unfortunately that belief isn’t shared by some of the media in CenTx. I heard on sports talk this week at least one jerk state that “he wouldn’t put it past Leach to bring Potts back too soon”. Idiot
This isn’t making excuses for Potts. But in reference to “players trying to come back too soon”, think of these circumstances as a combined big picture:
1. Potts is a very, very competitive person
2. He watches Sheffield play well for a couple of games
3. Doesn’t want to lose more ground for starting role
4. Loves his teammates & Tech football
5. Desperately wants to help Tech football be successful
6. Probably got the general fan vibe regarding his play against New Mexico
7. Wanted to redeem himself by playing well against aTm
8. Loves the game and was likely anxious to get back on the field ASAP.
9. His competitive nature gives him no choice but to think HE can make the difference in winning ball games.
This is all just speculation on my part. But if you give it some thought and dig deeper in terms of big picture and what he was going through for the few weeks he was out, it’s easy to see where he may not be completely truthful with the coaches and doctors. Again, not saying this happened, but pretty easy to connect the dots to see why and how it could happen. Sorry for the long post. Had to get it off my chest and I feel better.
I personally think all concussed athletes are brought back too soon. Many neurosurgeons and neurologists, not affiliated with teams, are going to be pushing for a standard of athlete care that states they should sit out for a minimum of four weeks AFTER symptoms have ceased. I agree with that timeline since concussion damage is cummulative. They stack up one on top of the other until you end up with a scrambled brain. Give it time before Aikman starts to show signs.
Unfortunately I have some experience with this issue..
You US Army has an entire Traumatic Brain Injury Task Force in the medical branch whose sole function is to ID, prevent and treat brain injuries. The basic premise is scanning the brain before combat then comparing the post combat images. Then of course identifying cutting edge treatment for injuries. In the collegiate football world I’d have to aggree with theta12. The NCAA must get out ahead of this issue. Prohibiting helmet to helmet contact is a good first step but until Coaches get fined and players ejected and suspended – I don’t think we see much change in the aggregate numbers. There is of coures a huge argument on Helmet design to lower the incidence rate. Id’ guess we are going to see a medical agenda surface on brain injuriesat th NCAA level before too long.
"do routine things routinely"
typo "Your US Army,.."
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Oct 30, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Does the player even realize he is really hurt?
Many people have had their bell rung a little. Some of those have had a concussion. But here is an analogy for you: does a person know when they have had too much to drink? It is easy to tell when you are way over the limit. The differences in reaction time, cognitive ability, etc. are much more subtle after only a couple of drinks.
At the college level, the speed of the game is such that even a minor loss of ability to make reads and decisions can have dramatic consequences. Imagine a college QB trying to go out and play a game after having a few beers. Not so much theat he is stumbling around, but with just a little buzz. Do you think he is going to play well? It may be OK for D-league softball, but not for D-I football.
Just like people don’t realize or admit that they have had too much to drink until they sober up, I think these guys don’t realize until they had a concussion until the fog has really lifted. Just like when you’ve had too much to drink, a concussion will vary in healing time depending on the person and the severity. Often more than just one or two weeks off.
We’ll never know how severe Potts’s injury was or when it really occurred. I fully believe that he was not right after the Texas game. He may have had more than one concussion (Kindel + New Mexico) that compounded things. The guy has some tremendous ability. I wish we would have been able to see how he would have progressed and turned out without the concussion.
I could really see a lawsuit coming
I really hope it never comes to this, but with today’s sue-happy / get-rich-quick greed that is out there it won’t surprise me when it does. I don’t know if Potts or his parents fall into this category, but think about it. He comes in very highly touted. Decent (not great) NFL prospects, a chance for some fame and glory and potential pro career. Due to mis-diagnosed brain trauma (intentional or unintentional), the player was allowed to return when he shouldn’t have, ruined his college career and in turn, his pro career.
Granted, this is all speculative and there a bunch of variables we aren’t aware of. There’s also the high possibility that he never would have had a pro career even if he hadn’t been injured. Who really knows. I just know the way society works these days and it’s bound to happen sooner or later.
The only way
to get greedy soulless corporations to act on their negligence in a capitalist society, is to take then to court.
VIVA LA FIGA!
You can’t sue because nobody “knows” exactly when it’s safe to resume activity. For some, it should be never.
The single most important Issue to face Football ever.
The NFL is acting like the tobacco company’s In the early 60"s.
The money will cloud this issue, until the evidence is so overwhelming that it can not
be disputed.
Is it not interesting the lack of coverage that ESPN is giving this issue, I have said it before, ESPN is the NFL’s bead partner. (actually I said “ESPN sucks at the utter of it’s cash cow the NFL”)
If the NFL does not get ahead of this issue it will bite them in butt big time.
Helmet design is the Issue, just like US motorcycle helmet standards, the hats use in football have to stiff of an outer shell, and not enough energy displacing properties.
http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/200909/nfl-players-brain-dementia-study-memory-concussions
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/30/sports/football/30concussion.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/sports/football/27study.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=N.F.L.%20Study%20Of%20Dementia%20Has%20Flaws,%20Experts%20Say%20&st=cse
VIVA LA FIGA!
What needs to happen is this:
They need to have each player to a cognative baseline test (this is already being done in some places), this test assesses your normal function by asking you a battery of questions, the instrument can be used to compare your pre suncussion baseline to after a hit. As stated on a post after TP’s first incident v. UNM, I learned this from HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumble.
also, I as a member of the bar have a solemn duty to represent zealously MY CLIENT. Even if it’s a juvenile and Daddy is paying my fee and Daddy wants Jr. to plea, I do what my client wants. This is even more true with a physician as they owe a duty to take care of the client and prevent further injury. Now the problem lies with the confidentiality doctrine, where the patient/athlete may tell the the doc something and not want it passed along, AND further, having a team doc might inhibit the player to be COMPLETELY truthful in re his symptoms. The kids mom and dad have a duty to pick their own doc and make the U pay for it, if the kid’s parents are not with the program, have a lawyer or someone not affiliated with the school research and find a competent independent physician. We do this in the courts for minors and call it guardian ad litem. In other words, the Judge appoints a 3rd party neutral agent to look out for the minor’s best interest.
That's a good point
The thing that would be interesting to know is whether these elite athletes have the ability to trick the system. Meaning, are there proceedures in place other than brain scan once the player is on the road to recovery that can be used to judge the players progress?
I would hope so since most (if not all) competitive people would tell the doctor what they wanted to hear to get back on the field. If the player is thinking clearly enough to give the right answers, but isn’t 100% then you need some other testing to look at.
I’m thinking something as simple as video taping players answering simple questions that they would know immediately. Then you run them through the same questions during recovery to judge response time. At that point, you compare the two tapes. Probably too simplistic, but it might identify a patter of slower response time.
by imisswesttexas on Oct 30, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Here’s what they SHOULD do:
The NCAA should create a group of doctors (just like the referees) and those doctors should be tasked with maintaining the well-being of the players, period. Obviously it’ll be tough to be completely “impartial”, just as referees are often not seen as completely impartial. And teams should also have their own medical staff overall. But at the end of the day, there should be a body independent of each school that is looking out for the medical well-being of the students, otherwise it just isn’t going to happen.
Obviously the schools place first priority on the schools, and having “independent” doctors won’t work because the players won’t fully utilize them either because of the “not a team player” issue, or because they might lose their “job”. Basically, at a minimum the NCAA should dictate that ANY player who comes out of a game (for any length of time, for injury reasons) needs to be independently checked by a league medical staff. Unless it’s mandated, teams won’t do it for competitive reasons and most players won’t do it for other reasons.
(Mostly) Unrelated to that though, how much do you think the admins hurt the program this year by moving up the Texas game? If you think the TV exposure was “worth it” then that’s fine, but with all the losses we had, the team DEFINITELY needed time to build teamwork this year. Without that, Potts most likely took more hits than necessary. Thus Potts (definitely) and other players (probably) got more injuries than might have happened if the game had been later in the year and we’d had time to build against other teams. Heck, do you think it was a “net plus” that we had all the stiff competition before the Houston game (thus we were “toughened up”) or do you think it was a “net minus” because of how banged-up we were coming out of Austin?
I’m just curious because I thought it was a terrible idea when it was announced, and right now, looking at this team (especially wrt to injuries) I’m thinking it’s turned out actually WORSE than I initially thought it would.
UT game
Looking more like a net minus as time goes on, but I’d like to point out that the injuries started before that game. We entered that game with a pretty patchwork set of defensive players and still played hard. Batch was still fighting an elbow injury. I don’t think injuries can all be pinned on the UT game, we were in trouble from the start of the season.
yes & no
Injuries can’t all be pinned on that game (for example, Sheffield didn’t even PLAY till NM) but the wear adds up, and that one was an incredibly brutal game. I’m just saying that if we take a rough game like that later, then (a) the pounding doesn’t hurt as many games down the line, because there aren’t as many, and (b) some of our players don’t TAKE as much of a pounding because everyone has had more time to get acclimated to their roles.
I’m saying you get less blown assignments (in theory), at least due to lack of experience and so players don’t get caught unawares or need to pick up slack or whatever else comes into play because people don’t fully know what they’re doing. I’m saying I was worried about the line from the start (since we lost a LOT of experience there) and between the learning curve and the injuries, that’s an area that’s suffered, and I don’t think an early battle with UT did us any favors there.
Tech normally starts slow first two or three games, but then so does Texas. I worried when they scheduled it so early because Texas had an experienced quarterback while Potts was just beginning. Honestly, I do not think Potts had been the same since he took that cheap shot hit from Sergio Kindle in Austin. If ever a hit SHOULD HAVE BEEN FLAGGED, it should have been that one on Sergio Kindle. Since then I have since McCoy, especially last week, barely touched and they flagged the opposing team (put a skirt on McCoy). Kindle has a reputation in Austin (I live here) as a rogue on and off the field. If he ever gets into the pros, his reputation will follow and he will be put in his place (I can’t wait). Mack Brown does not do much team discipline and Kindle has his share of reprieves from him. Brown is a patsy when it comes to discipline.
The reason I am spending time on this is because it was one of those calls that would have changed the entire game in Austin, in addition to Leach calling his Stupid on-side kick. That was such a brutal hit, remember Potts’ helmet flew off and it was definitely to the head. I thought Kindle should have been thrown out of the game.
On that note, has anyone noticed that it is very hard to turn momentum in a game when the refs
continuously miss calls or make wrong calls? It is also blantant that the teams in the top of the rankings are favored. The Oklahoma State game was an example. The first half even the announcers agreed it was called incorrectly on a couple of occasions. It is hard enough for a team to play to win and worry about calls missed such as holding, pass interference, etc.
These can be and have been huge game changers.
I don’t think Tech could so beat up at Texas. It has been just a host of injuries along the way.
They had probably four or five starters out prior to the Texas game. Leach and staff were shuffling players around to positions they had never played. I was proud of how they manned up at that game. Just an honest call or two by the refs would have changed that entire game,
is my belief.
by BiggestRaiderFan on Nov 3, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Rules, there's rules around here......NOT!
This is all speculation right now. Laws, rules or certain practices or procedures, are brought into force due to something happening too often or someone being hurt badly. For instance, when heading east on 19th, past Loop 289 in Lubbock, the street crosses a railroad. The only indication is a stationary “X” sign signifying that there is a railroad crossing there. No lights. No “swinging gate”. I don’t think there has been any change there, even after my father-in-law was run over by a train at that location. He simply did not see it coming, even though he stopped and looked both ways, according to the train’s engineer. Why hasn’t a light been put there to ensure a driver KNOWS there is an approaching train? Bureaucracy. Period. That is why nothing is going to be done, as mentioned above, about concussions until an incident gains a large amount of coverage due to WHO is involved. It is sad, but that is the way society is ans will always be.We got a good look at the way things move slowly when the issue of steroids were brought out so brightly into the spotlight. It was still there for years before anything concrete was done to try and prevent it from happening as much as possible. The concussion problems will undoubtedly go through the same red tape, if you will, before anything is seriously done to try and prevent it from happening.
TTpilk
A players well being...
has to be a combination of his own and a medical staff. I jacked up my knees all through high school and was told by our family doctor that I’m done. Luck was on my side since it was at the tail end of my senior season and my only chances at the next level would be as a walk on. I knew that deep down the problem was getting worse but because of competition in a fairly large high school I would be easily replaced. Players face that decision at the college level every time they go down. Look at Harrell last year in the Baylor game. His hand was virtually shattered. Crabs did the same with his ankle. Those guys were thinking about their draft stock and possibly a NC game. The coaches want wins and unless a player in limping etc… they will do what they can to keep them on the field. I do feel like a 3rd party doctor should have to be advised after injury. A non-bias physician with nothing to gain would protect against possible further injury. Probably will never happen but this could keep kids healthy and possibly eliminate law suits later.
I just hope Potts doesn’t have some sort of lasting head trauma problems. And Potts does love Tech football and for that I’m a big fan. He doesn’t have all of the tools for whatever reason. i think most of the tools he is lacking are mental and I hope that with his competitiveness he can gain the use of those tools.
on the radio
I was listening to sports radio today and they were talking about QB busts. One of the ones they talked about at one point was David Carr with the Houston Texans. I think Potts may be doomed to end up like Carr, lots of potential that was ultimately lost after a lot of hits in bad protection.
Conundrum n. A problem admiting of no satisfactory solution.
Holy moley, we subscribe to fanhood of a violent, barbaric sport and hope to manage injuries with an administrative solution.
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