Missouri would listen if the Big Ten came calling
by cweber7377 on Dec 16, 2009 12:54 PM CST
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PrintThis story was on yesterdays ESPN Big 12 blog hosted by Tim Griffin. Link http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/8416/missouri-would-listen-if-the-big-ten-came-calling#comments. I was wondering how everyone else felt, as I fear this could be a problem for Tech in the long run. If someone like Missouri leaves the Big 12, I do not think we can get a credible replacement without changing the revenue sharing arrangement similar to the Big 10 or SEC. And if UT balks at an equal share and bolts to the Pac 10, as they threatened before, the Big 12 could fold and Tech would be left trying to join the WAC or Mountain West. If we were in one of these two, I think we would have an even more difficult time recruiting. Only if we were very lucky could we get in the SEC.
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Doesn't make sense.
First, the Big12 has credibility. Second, being in the North, there is typically only going to be a few division rivals competing to rep the North in the title game.
Last, unless the Big11 choose to remove a team, they are unlikely to be interested in adding a 12th team. If I remember correctly, conferences with 12 teams are either eligible for a championship game or required to play a championship game. Either way, I don’t think the Big11 is interested in having a championship game that would basically keep them to 1 BCS school each year. As it stands now, they are much more likely to get 2 teams in the BCS.
Disregard my previous comments
Looks like I spoke too soon. Reading more on ESPN blog, apparently a championship game is one of the reasons expansion is being pushed by some members of the Big11. But shouldn’t they learn to count first? Maybe if that add another team, they’ll change the conference name to the Big13…
by imisswesttexas on Dec 16, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly
I would kind of like to see the conference shaken up a bit… even if it is just a change in one north team. Definitely won’t shed a tear over the loss of Mizzou.
TCU
If Mizzou leaves, the Big XII would be stupid not to bring TCU into the mix. Move one of the Oklahoma teams to the North to replace Mizzou and add TCU to the South. Overnight the Big XII became an even better conference.
That'll be Okie Lite then
If your scenario did come true then I doubt Oklahoma nor UT would give up their yearly Red River nonsense as it is too big a deal
I don't think
TCU would be a great fit. We have to remember it’s not just football that is impacted. What does TCU bring to the Big XII besides a decent football team? Not sure they’d be a good fit for the conference beyond geography.
Agreed
TCU will then compete with Baylor for the perennial rock bottom of the big XII, just as they did for the previous two or three decades with the SWC. Watch TCU get slammed by Boise State in the Fiesta bowl.
You really think TCU is going to get slammed by Boise? I’m not so sure. My monopoly money is on the toads.
"Life's a garden, dig it."
by Remington870 on Dec 17, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
What TCU Brings to the table
An absolutely priceless opportunity for Tech to play conference games in all sports in the metroplex. This gives us a huge presence in the Metroplex with high school recruits and provides exposure that we currently don’t have in the concrete jungle. Currently the only time we get exposure there is a bowl game or a game against Baylor. The schools that really don’t want TCU to join the Big XII are UT, A&M, and OU. They already hold monopolies there and that would begin to erode if the metroplex had a Big XII team.
TCU...not so much
Locally here in DFW they are popular for now but they will offer the Big 12 as a whole absolutely nothing. I like Patterson and what he has done with this team but I just don’t see them as a Big 12 team. Small school with little alumni that would travel etc.. Lets also not forget about other sports that make up the Big 12.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Put us in the North
It’s not like we don’t fly everywhere anyways. And would need to keep OSU with OU and Ayunem with horns. We don’t really have any true rivalries, but if we got up there and whipped their aces every year, we’d have some rivals pretty fast.
As Long as we have Oklahoma and Nebraska, this conference will be fine and if Texas wants to switch having to get past OU every year for USC, have fun with that.
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
Nah not so much
Even if Missouri did defect then I don’t think it is a huge deal, I’m with involving TCU, that’d be fun playing them each year and I don’t think TCU would complain, but I think the big 10 would be better going for Boise St as it would involve them in a BCS conference and would make the Big 10 more competitive.
also UT would be stupid to go to the PAC 10
only USC as proper competition and I can’t see all those UT fans travelling to Wasington each year
Get Rid of both....
I like getting Mizzu and Iowa st. out and add TCU and Arkansas. That would really beef up the conf. I really don’t think ut will go anywhere. Even if there is some tweeking on the revenue sharing it is still much cheaper to stay in the Big 12 then all the expenses to be in the Pac 10. I don’t think it would happen but ut would go to sec before Pac 10.
Wreck’Em Tech
Get rid of 3...
If I were the decision maker I’d get rid of Mizzu, Iowa st, and Baylor.
replace with Arkansas, TCU and yes Houston. ( i think Houston is on the come up)
change the name to the Super 12….
… its just an idea.
The truth is Mizzou benefits from being in the Big12
At the risk of attracting Mizzou trolls here is my perspective. They get more exposure in a Dallas / Norman / Houston / Kansas City media market. Which is the money for the Big12. It’s regional. It’s their tradition and rivalry – old Big 8 opponents. And much as it pains me to say it playing OU and ut every couple of years or twice in single season as in 07 brings notoriety to their program. TV revenue sharing is another argument for another forum.
They would be short sighted to jump to the Big 11.
"do routine things routinely"
This conference is perfect...
Why does it need to change? It should just stay the same…I am used to it.
Mizzou has more in common with Big 10 schools than with Big XII schools…academics, basketball, fan base, geography, etc etc.
Fit of Mizzou with other B10 schools
We can argue the validity of US News and World Report school rankings all day, but I’m going to use them for my data. The B10 average in USN is #50. Their highest is Northwestern at #12 and the lowest is shared by MSU/Iowa/Indiana at #71. The B12 average ranking is #83 and that does not include 3 schools that have not achieved top-tier status (KSU, OSU, TTU). Texas is tops at #47; Mizzou is #102. They would bring down the average rank of the B10 by 5 points with their inclusion so I’m not sure where the “academics” fit is in their case.
Agree they have similar fan base and geography, but to me Pitt seems a better choice. They’re ranked #56 and have everything else similar to Mizzou. Better hoops and football consistently too…
Who wants to be in Big 10 basketball anyway? It’s about as exciting as B12 North football in 2010.
Pittsburgh (the city) and the western half of PA is already covered fory the Big 10 with Penn State fans. They populate most of that state. Mizzou, while maybe not a top tier university overall, boasts arguably the finest journalism school in the country, and some other highly ranked programs, including their post graduate programs.
I wouldn’t miss Mizzou, let’s say that. ESPN and Si.com seem to think Rutgers, with the New York market, would make the most sense if ND is steadfast in the idea of staying independent.
If we did lose Mizzou, who would we take to replace them? I’d say let’s look at Arkansas (they are looking for a good reason to leave the SEC as I understand it), or Houston (fairly good in football and basketball, very good in baseball).
by Tech92 on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Random ramblings
If you haven’t seen it, the UT-Austin blogs have been full of talk all year about getting out of the Big 12 – not just reader comments but long articles by principal authors at BON and BC. They talk about being stuck in a cheesy little conference with the 11 little sisters that don’t give them any competition and thus hurt their SOS. (Apparently it’s the B-12’s tie-breaker rules that kept them out of the NC game last year, not Harrell to Crabtree) Granted, this is just a bunch of arrogant asshats saying this and not university officials, but I say let them go.
I wouldn’t miss Mizzou, either, but some of the north teams might feel differently. I’ve seen many comments at CornNation and elsewhere about how they don’t have their traditional rivalry games (from the Big 8 days) every year since the B-12 formed, like OU-NU and OSU-NU. We could move at least one Okie school into the north to fix that and pick up two new teams in the south if Mizzou and UT-Austin left.
Getting TCU would bring back some of the old SWC rivalry games (although the Frogs weren’t much of a threat in those days). The main reason TCU wasn’t brought into the B-12 when it formed was that Gov. Ann Richards was a Baylor grad, and a lot of TCU folks felt like they got screwed on that deal. Nothing against Baylor (I got my 2nd degree there), but it seems like life would be more fun if they weren’t the perennial doormat of the B-12.
I doubt if Arkansas wants to leave the SEC, plus they left a bad taste in people’s mouths around here when they bolted from the SWC and effectively caused its collapse a few years later. Houston was brought in to replace the Hogs, but they weren’t around long enough to develop any traditional rivalries, plus they came in right when the ‘Run & Shoot’ was new and they ran the score up on everybody and took the SWC crown right away. Believe it or not, running up the score was considered seriously bad sportsmanship back in the ‘olden days’ of 15-20 years ago.
No matter who wants to leave, I would think there would be a long list of schools that would want to join the B-12.
How about Notre Dqme as a replacement in the North for Missouri?
OK, OK….just kidding. I really don’t see this happening. Missouri has won the North and played very well the last several years. If, A BIG IF, they did leave, replacing them might not be easy. Several teams have been mentioned, except for one everyone seems to have forgotten….UTEP. They have been fairly competitive in football and are always a pain to everyone in basketball. And the location is splendid…the North teams would be amazed, I think, to go there every 4th year or so. Just sayin’……
Oh, and UT ain’t a goin’ anywhere…they love beatin’ up on their li’l sisters…..YUK!
TTpilk
Notre Dame would never join a conference
If they did, they would have to win more than 9 games to make a BCS bowl game.
Its about tv markets
If Missouri leaves we will need to replace not only the state of Missouri(which is fairly populated in the rural areas) and St. Louis.
Arkansas
BYU
Utah
Are the only schools that bring in tv sets we dont already have
Ahem
And Kansas City.
Missouri is actually the second most-populous state in the conference.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 17, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Here's my idea...
B12 North:
Nebraska
Kansas
Colorado
Oklahoma State
Kansas State
Iowa State
B12 South:
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
New Mexico
no.
Their bball team is #19 nationally right now. Other than football, they’re pretty decent all around.
by techfan5730 on Dec 19, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
yes.
new mexico has to be a joke.
I would add TCU. they would be in the chase every year, of course – right behind Tech.
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
Putting OU in the North would set up an annual rumble between 2 teams battling for the BCS spot/the NC game… ie Florida and Bama this year in the SEC championship. That would mean the Red River Shootout would come to an end, but it would make for a meaningful championship game for the next couple years anyway.
The Big 12 isn’t going to let OU go to the North division. They make alot of money with the Red River Shootout.
I think the SEC lets 2 particular teams in different divisions play EVERY year
to keep a rivalry. We could do that.
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
Gotta think about it from a business standpoint
If the conference gets shaken up, they will look to expand their market, or at least replace what they lost. While TCU is good in football right now, the Big 12 already has the DFW area completely locked down. Adding TCU doesn’t really bring many new fans to the conference and it certainly doesn’t expand the geographical footprint of the conference.
If we had to replace a team I don’t really know who to go with. Arkansas would make sense but I don’t think you’ll ever convince any SEC school (or PAC 10 for that matter) to jump ship. Maybe (as someone else mentioned) a BYU or Utah? Maybe (this is way out there) a Bosie State? Only problem with those is that they are so far from everything else in the conference.
As far as who the Big 10 wants to get, Missou and Nebraska make more sense than Iowa St. (since they already U of Iowa and the geographic market that goes with it)
by RaiderArch on Dec 17, 2009 10:34 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Comments from Nebraska Paper
This was in today’s Big Red with some interesting comments about the What if Big 10. http://www.omaha.com/article/20091216/BIGRED01/912169974/-1/bigred
Here is a link that explains the Big (11) Ten thoughts, in less than 2 minutes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ertqE5jJo
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
What their looking for is....
Another team on the West side of the Mississippi River, or at least a team that is easily transitioned to a East / West Divisions.
Currently they have 5 on the West, and 6 on the East sides of the Muddy River.
I doubt they will choose any team from our Big 12.
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
IF (and that is a huge if)
if the Big 10 were to take one of our Big 12 north teams (Missouri or Kansas State)
Then the Big 12 should lobby Arkansas to join the Big 12 North.
OR… Air Force, Colorado State, or TCU
The SEC West could take in Troy, Memphis, or Southern Miss.
I used this Link to help my mapping situation…
http://www.mapgameday.com/index.php
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
Huge Map of Division 1 Conferences' Colleges
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Cfdia.PNG
Zoom in.
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
after looking at this pick.
The Big 10 ought to take Iowa State (it’s closer, and has a rivalry game with Iowa)
The Big 12 should then pick up TCU (they are a tough football team)
Okie State to the Big 12 north
TCU to the Big 12 south
NCAA Football Grad. Rate: Texas Tech 79%, Baylor 78%, Oklahoma State 62%, Texas A&M 56%, Texas 50%, OU 46%
The Argument Could Be Made
That the success one school has in football then snowballs into other athletic programs at that school. It’s the chicken or the egg for TCU. Right now they don’t bring much to the table other than football but 5-7 years down the line after being in the Big XII a school like TCU would look and compete much different than they currently do today. I think we should pull for as many Texas schools to be successful and in big conferences as we can. It only helps our strength of schedule in football and other sports in the future.
But also makes recruting more difficult…. The big 12 only started in the 90’s, I feel that it should be kept the same for a while in order to really become a predominant conference. (Although I feel we should maybe split it between east and west instead of north and south, in order to help the inadequecy (sp?) of the north.)
The tipping point
I think the tipping point was when Texas A&M (3-5, 6-6) was invited to play Georgia in the Independence bowl ahead of Missouri (4-4, 8-4). I would be too, if this happened. It was unfair and although the Big XII was not responsible for it, some definitely was responsible for making this terrible choice.
Oh and Iowa State was chosen for the Insight bowl, also ahead of Mizzou? What were the bowl game selectors smoking?
good points
I’m not sure if there really is any logic outside of the BCS bowl games. It’s strictly business about filling stadiums and television. A&M has always had a huge leg up when traveling and viewership is concerned. Missouri would have been a better game against UGA or possibly us. The good thing is A&M loses this game and falls to 6-7.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Those schools...
…don’t even come close to replacing what we lose if Missouri leaves in terms of TV markets.
Not. Even. Close.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 20, 2009 2:03 AM CST up reply actions
well then
Why don’t we just slam their mouths shut and go get Memphis from out of Conference USA.
Memphis > Kansas City and Tennessee > Missouri
Their football team is not great, but their basketball team is noteworthy. Seems like an EASY slam dunk fix and solves all the major problems. We can even put them in the North and that’s not a really big deal
Is that the point? To replace Missouri’s viewers on Saturday? I think that the point is getting the best team possible as a replacement. If you compare all of them to Missouri, you’ll probably find that they don’t make the grade. Why? Because any school big enough to play in a major conference is probably already playing in one. I believe Notre Dame to be the only legitimate exception. Other schools (Utah, Boise, TCU) have had some recent success but failed to generate a huge following.
I mention UTEP and TCU because, as a fan, I believe them to be the best replacements. UTEP doesn’t need much to be on par with Missouri in every major sport. TCU would be an improvement in baseball and football. That’s why I mention them.
Missouri showed their hand and I hope it is a winning one (for their sake). I’m not a conference homer, but I do think any team (ex: SMU) would be more welcome in the Big12 than Missouri.
BTW- I don’t disagree with those of you that point out what a loss Missouri would be for the Big12 and the negative impact that will have for Tech and the rest of the Big12. I simply think measuring potential replacements against Missouri isn’t going to get us very far.
The business of college sports makes me sick so I’d rather leave that to the folks in the conference and school AD offices. If the Big 12 wants to beg Missouri to stay I hope they do it behind closed doors.
Agreed
Lost dollars is a factor, it’s just not the only factor like some folks seem to think. Or maybe its just my personal experience. I attended two schools, Tech and Baylor. Neither one is a land grant school. Neither one is the principal target of the legislative largess in the state. And yet both seem to have done a pretty good job without sacrificing their principles or their dignity in exchange for the almighty dollar.
Replacement for Mizzou
Mizzou can leave the Big XII and go to hell or whichever place they may choose. I was thinking of a replacement for Mizzou. I know that TCU will be a replacement but an unequal replacement since they will not do much in terms of replacing Mizzou’s tv revenues. What if we replace Mizzou with Utah or BYU?
smaller conference teams
big 12 needs to go after schools from smaller conference. big 12 has one of the smaller $ figures in revenue sharing. example: iowa st got 9 million this year from tv revenue, illinios in the big 10 got 20+ million. until the big 12 gets some tv $ like the other conferences, they will not be able to talk schools into leaving the big conferences(i.e. arkansas, miss st., arizona, arizona st). these are a few the conference has metioned targeting. i have heard byu mentioned and maybe even air force. they do not want another team from texas or oklahoma, and neither should we. recruiting is tough enough as it is.
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