Athlete vs. Football Player
I work with a Tea Sipper and we were having a discussion about the misfortunes of our teams. He brought up this point. Several years ago Mack became enamored with getting the best athletes available not necessarily the best football players. UT now has some of the fastest WRs in the country but they can't catch, they have fast Backs that can't run over people, some of the strongest OL that don't block well.....ect. He used Colt vs. Vince to make his point, Vince was by far the better athlete but Colt was a better football player. At Tech we could use Robert Johnson vs. Lyle Leong, Johnson was a heck of an athlete but Lyle is a ball player. I think the point is valid and to some extent explains UTs problems this year. I also think this is the way Tech competes with likes of UT and OU as they tend to over look the Players who don't fit their Athlete mold.
My questions are:
Is the great athlete that can play that rare? Can the great athlete be coached up in four years? Can Players fit any system, or do you need to fit your Players to the system to beat pure athletes? What is a winnable mix of Players to Athletes. How do you find the Player in a recruit?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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Good Point esp concerning Leach
Leach had a way of finding receivers that could catch or could learn to catch and catch very well. If you take the Tech vs UT game in ’08 that game really turns on a few key drops by Texas receivers. Our spread was always successful becuase of poession. When you throw three 5-8 yard passes you better catch at least two of them.
Thats also one of the things that scares me about the Tubbs spread he talks speed speed and more speed, well speed really doesnt matter if you cant hold on to the ball.
Texas got so addicted to that talent that I thought it could just transform to a power running team over one offseason and as we well know football doesnt work that way.
Dont buy the Espn/Disney/ABC hype ! Playoffs are just spin to hide their agenda of owning our favorite sport.
I coached high school kids in baseball for 15 years and if I learned anything, it’s that some kids are born afraid of the ball, some aren’t. Those who are the former can learn to overcome it, but will still always be a little afraid. It slows them down that fraction of a second enough to never really maximize their talent.
Tech has had great success recruiting kids who weren’t “afraid of the ball.” Stick their nose in there, regardless of size or speed difference. When you get some of the more gifted guys and such, the passion for risking it all goes away sometimes. I like that the profile of our athletes is getting better, but what could we be sacrificing in the heart department?
I personally think a player can be coached up when he has the drive and dedication to listen and learn. I had great HS coaches growing up and I always felt like they got what they could out of me even when I may have thought lesser of myself. If a young athlete poors his heart and soul into training and conditioning I think he has opportunity to move on to the next level whatever that may be. At the same time you might have a purely gifted athlete who thinks he’s already perfect and fails to listen to coaches and makes mistakes when it matters most. I think in the end it’s a successful formula when you have kids that have a great attittude and work ethic combined with athletic ability. Wes Welker is a prime example of that.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
'athleticism'
Seems to be a buzzword nowadays and no doubt it can be impressive to see, but Amendola and Welker are two have done well who are probably not the best of athletes or have the most athleticism. I think this being enamored with athleticism (speed for speed’s sake would be included) is overly touted. I loved it several years ago when Boise State beat OU, though OU you no doubt had more speed and athleticism on their side and Boise had more desire and smarts on theirs. I enjoy the latter.
Two thoughts
1)You must have an identity that points to what kind of players do well in your system. This goes for your physical gifts and your mental makeup. Leach did very well with not the best athlete, but the largest chip on your shoulder. These guys are perfectionists on technique.
2) You can then go find the kids that mean more to your programs than others. This is what really scares me the most of us not having an identity this year.
"It's fun to do bad things"- Latarian
by oldschoolraider on Nov 16, 2010 2:58 PM CST reply actions
Pt 2)
Maybe the lack of identity is what causes this confusion with the game plan. Then again its so confusing when we are behind and playing ball control offense.
Dont buy the Espn/Disney/ABC hype ! Playoffs are just spin to hide their agenda of owning our favorite sport.
I’ve actually got a ton of thoughts on this, but little time. Graham Harrell is not the best athlete (he’s a good athlete, but not elite), but he’s a superb football player. Physically, he’s limited, but his ability to make the quickest of decisions to make the correct read is imperative. My two cents is that those players that are able to diagnose a play quickly and still be an incredible athlete are once in a lifetime, i.e. Michael Crabtree. Leach always said that Crabtree “saw the field” (this is not a direct quote, but he said something similar to this) and that his ability to see the play before it happened is as innate as having a physical gift to run fast or be strong. Much like Magic Johnson could see the entire court. It was a gift.
Finding the balance between the two is important and I think that coaches, GM’s and anyone associated with football has always had the problem of having the right balance between the two. There’s no science to it and I think the hope is that you can teach an athlete to know schemes, but it’s incredibly difficult to take a player that is physically limited and make him a better football player.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I will take a guy with heart over a guy with talent
A guy can have all the talent in the world, but if he doesn’t have the desire to become a better player you can’t coach that into him.
Heart is what pushes you beyond what you think your capabilities are.
My old coach once said, "hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard."
I like Doege but we need to make sure Karam and Young are ready to step in next year if things are not going well.
NUTS - Never Underestimate TEAM Strength
good discussion
I would actually go a step further in the discussion. I tend to break down these categories based on position which makes more sense to me. For example,
QB – Depends on your system. Zone read = always want a great athlete. Spread = always prefer a great football player who has grasp of the scheme and can make great decisions quickly. Coach Leach always preached that you can’t coach accuracy. They either have it or they don’t. But you can only get them so far if they don’t.
Defensive front 7 = Great athlete is the goal, no question. Can coach them up on scheme over 4 years. This is more about heart and athletic ability.
Offensive line = Good football player who is smart. Intelligence and solid technique can overcome some athletic issues.
DB & Receiver = Preferably both, but I would lean toward having a good football player here. I want them to be fast and with good hands ideally. But having the football IQ to see the field know what to do during a play can overcome athletic issues.
RB – Give me someone with a fearless attitude and competitive nature and coach them up.
I think identity is a big thing. To me, most of UT’s issues this year were caused by deciding in the spring to be a run-oriented offense. I don’t think they took inventory of their roster and put them in a postion to succeed. Same can be said for Tech.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas f-ing A&M. Now how in the F can that be?" ML
by imisswesttexas on Nov 17, 2010 11:34 AM CST reply actions
Identity
Its such an interesting thing. Taken to extremes by experiments like Nebraska and Callahan!
We had an identity with Spike and we were all tired of watching the dive play three times in a row. Then we got Leach and were all amazed at the ninja formations and the horror or the ball being in the air evey single play and linemen spread from the hash to the numbers. We all adapted to it and loved it, it basically changed the face of the XII if not all of CFB.
Now we have this weird thing where the offense (even when behind) is juat a mechanism for the defense to draw adjustments in the dirt and get a drink of water? Very Very strange!
But my question is do we / did we develop enough of an identity to damaged long term by such a shift with Catfish?
Dont buy the Espn/Disney/ABC hype ! Playoffs are just spin to hide their agenda of owning our favorite sport.
by Gus Mitchem on Nov 18, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Identity
If Neal Brown can produce at the level he did at Troy, Tech will still be thought of as an offensive juggernaut. In the rare times we have gotten media coverage outside the Lubbock to Dallas corridor this year they are still describing Texas Tech and its wide open passing game. I don’t think one year of stop & start offense will kill the brand.
Good Defense = Police Blotter !
Dont buy the Espn/Disney/ABC hype ! Playoffs are just spin to hide their agenda of owning our favorite sport.
by Gus Mitchem on Nov 18, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I want a HFC that does not bullshit me about the spread and championships
"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""
And I want money that gross on trees!
"A job well done is better than a job well said."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 19, 2010 8:05 AM CST up reply actions

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