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This Time It's Different: Assessing the Transition from Mike Leach to Tommy Tuberville

There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.  – Will Rogers

Abstract

Since 1980, over the past 30 years, a review of six major BCS conferences covering 337 coaching tenures and 65 FBS football programs reveals that only four universities have subsequently improved their football programs after dismissing a head coach with a record greater than Mike Leach’s win winning percentage, and replacing the previous coach with a new hire.

Star-divide

Introduction 

Over the past 30 years (1980-2009) within the major BCS conferences (ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, PAC 10 and SEC), there are only 18 instances amongst 337 coaching tenures in which a university dismissed or forced the resignation of a sitting coach with a record equal to or greater than Mike Leach’s 66.1% winning percentage.  These 18 cases represent 5% of all coaching tenures over the past 30 years.

Among those 18 cases, there are only four instances in which a football program achieved subsequent success, as Texas Tech hopes to do, after firing a sitting coach with a winning percentage greater than Leach’s record, and replacing the coach with an outside coach (i.e. not promoting an assistant). 

Similarly, among those 18 instances, there are only three other cases in the past 30 years where a coach was fired for reasons not related to on-field performance or NCAA allegations, as is the case with Mike Leach. 

Of the 337 coaching terms examined, 67 of those tenures featured coaches who were able to achieve a winning percentage greater than or equal to Mike Leach’s 66.1%.  By this broadest of definitions, we equally consider a coach with a two year tenure and a coach with a 20 year tenure.  According to this measurement, Coach Leach’s winning percentage places him at the top 20th percentile of all 337 tenures – regardless of duration.  Dennis Erickson’s 87.5% winning percentage at Miami (1989-1994) is the most successful of all tenures in this survey. 

If we limit our evaluation of the above coaching terms to those tenures that spanned a minimum of 10 years, then Leach becomes one of only 23 coaches to preside over a program for at least 10 years and achieve a 66.1% winning percentage or greater, a distinction that places him in the top seventh percentile of all coaching tenures in this survey.  It is fair to say, as the list below suggests, that Leach is in some legendary company.

Top Coaching Tenures (10 years or longer), 1980-2009

Conference Coach Team Tenure Winning Percentage
ACC Bobby Bowden Florida State  1976-2009 0.758
Danny Ford Clemson 1978-1989 0.744
Frank Beamer Virginia Tech 1987-Present 0.665
Big 10 Bo Schembechler Michigan 1969-1989 0.785
Lloyd Carr Michigan 1995-2007 0.753
Joe Paterno Penn State 1966-Current 0.749
John Cooper Ohio State 1988-2000 0.703
Big 12 Tom Osborne Nebraska 1973-1997 0.831
Barry Switzer Oklahoma 1973-1988 0.826
Mack Brown Texas 1998-Current 0.826
Bob Stoops Oklahoma 1999-Current 0.801
Fred Akers Texas 1977-1986 0.723
R.C. Slocum Texas A&M 1989-2002 0.715
Bill Snyder Kansas State 1989-2005 0.663
Mike Leach Texas Tech 2000-2009 0.661
PAC-10 Don James Washington  1975-1992 0.722
Mike Bellotti Oregon 1995-2008 0.678
SEC Steve Spurrier Florida 1990-2001 0.813
Paul W. Bryant Alabama 1958-1982 0.808
Philip Fulmer Tennessee 1992-2008 0.745
Vince Dooley Georgia 1964-1988 0.698
Pat Dye Auburn 1981-1992 0.697
Tommy Tuberville Auburn 1999-2008 0.680

Another way to evaluate Leach’s success is to compare Texas Tech’s performance over the past decade with other FBS programs.  Over 10 years, from 2000-2009, Texas Tech recorded the 19th highest winning percentage of all FBS teams ranking ahead of traditional powers such as Florida State, Nebraska, Tennessee, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama and Notre Dame. This comparison is specific to the football programs irrespective of coaching tenure.

Leach’s overall record, as impressive as it is, understates the trajectory in which he was taking the team.   From 2005-2009, during the latter half of Leach’s tenure, the Red Raiders’ winning percentage increased to 71.5% making it the 17th most successful program in the FBS (ahead of 23rd ranked Auburn).   To give you an indication of this measure’s sensitivity, had Texas Tech won just 2 more games over this five year period, it would have been the 11th most successful program in the FBS.  It goes without saying that Leach never suffered a losing season.

To characterize Leach’s termination as an event commonplace in college football or to downplay his accomplishments as pedestrian is inaccurate.  Leach was a great coach by any objective measurement.  Tech’s firing of a coach of Leach’s caliber is highly extraordinary and is preceded by just three such cases among the cited 337 tenures (less than 1% of all tenures in this study).  Attempts to diminish the rarity of Tech’s and Leach’s circumstances ignore the historical record.

Methodology

From the previously cited 337 coaching tenures, we review 18 instances (excluding Leach’s dismissal) in which coaches with records greater than 66.1% irrespective of tenure length were dismissed.  We define these coaches as ‘Elite Coaches.’   

We categorize their resignations or dismissals as follows:

  • Elite Coaches who resigned  or were dismissed due to NCAA allegations
  • Elite Coaches who resigned  or were dismissed due to on-field performance
  • Elite Coaches who resigned or were dismissed due to pressure from a school’s administration

Of the 18 cases, six coaches resigned or were dismissed as a result of NCAA allegations.

A further nine coaches resigned or were dismissed due to underperformance in the latter stages of their tenures.

That leaves us with three cases that best compare to Leach’s circumstances whereby an Elite Coach was forced to resign or was dismissed by a school's  administration.

Finally, we evaluate the extent of a program’s subsequent failure after dismissing a Elite Coach and the length of time it takes, if ever, for a university to return to the success level achieved by the deposed Elite Coach.

Elite Coaches who Resigned or were Dismissed Due to NCAA Sanctions

Elite coaches have been pressured to resign or dismissed six times in the past 30 years due to NCAA allegations.

This study does not equate those instances to Leach’s dismissal, because in most cases, proven NCAA allegations particularly those that directly implicate a head coach, can be a legitimate cause to remove a head coach especially if the allegations pertain to serious violations (unless of course you are a former head coach at Auburn where even after Pat Dye was pressured to resign as a result of  NCAA sanctions, the school named its field after him).

Elite Coaches Forced to Resign or Dismissed because of NCAA Allegations

 

Team Coach Tenure Winning % Replacement Tenure Winning %
Oklahoma Barry Switzer 1973-1988 0.826 Gary Gibbs 1989-1994   0.638
Clemson Danny Ford 1978-1989 0.744 Ken Hatfield 1990-1993 0.696
Auburn Pat Dye 1981-1992 0.697 Terry Bowden 1993-1998 0.723
Alabama Gene Stallings 1990-1996 0.805 Mike DuBose 1997-2000 0.511
Colorado Rick Neuhiesel 1995-1998 0.702 Gary Barnett 1999-2005 0.563
Washington   Rick Neuhiesel   1999-2002   0.686 Keith Gilbertson   2003-2004 0.304

 

Washington dismissed Neuheisel for NCAA allegations which it was later unable to justify in legal proceedings.  Washington ostensibly terminated Rick Neuhiesel  because of NCAA violations relating to his alleged gambling in an NCAA basketball tournament pool (a case which he later settled with Washington for $4.5 million) and for lying about interviewing for the head coaching position for the San Francisco 49ers.  Although Neuheisel’s past run-ins with the NCAA as the head coach at Colorado are well documented, this unfortunate past did not necessarily mean he was guilty of the misconduct as Washington alleged.  Over the past 7 years, Washington has not since achieved similar success.

Summary Results for Dismissals due to NCAA Allegations:

  • Number of Elite Coaches Terminated:  6
  • Best Outcome:  Terry Bowden  replacing Pat Dye, Auburn
  • Worst Outcome:  Keith Gilbertson replacing Rick Neuheisel, Washington
  • Average Decline in winning percentages between subsequent coaching  tenures:  -23%
  • Outcomes:  5 out of 6 cases resulted in declines
  • Average Duration of Subsequent Tenures:  4.75 years

Elite Coaches who resigned or were dismissed due to on-field performance

Coaches are often forced to resign or are dismissed because their most recent performances do not measure up to the success achieved earlier in their tenure.  As we see in the analysis below, adopting the "what have you done lately for me" posture is in almost all cases a bad idea.

Once again, this study does not compare these cases to Leach’s circumstances.  Leach’s teams were steadily improving throughout his tenure.  After reloading in 2009, many expected Leach’s 2010 squad to achieve similar results to the Leach’s 11-2 squad in 2008.  Furthermore, on field performance was not cited as a reason for his dismissal, nor has this reason been suggested.

In the two most extreme examples of such cases, two coaches deserve special mention.

Philip Fulmer whose Tennessee team won a national championship in 1998 was terminated in 2008, just two years removed from an 11-2 season. Fulmer’s teams suffered two losing seasons after winning the 1998 championship (a 5-6 season in 2005 and a 5-7 season in 2008).    Fulmer’s demise appears to begin before what would be his final season in 2008.  After a successful recruiting performance in 2007 which saw Tennessee land a top 5 recruiting class, the 2008 class did not register in the top 25.  Fulmer also lost four assistant coaches, including offensive coordinator David Cutcliffe, who accepted the head coaching job at Duke.   In the offseason, eight of Fulmer’s players were arrested for off field transgressions ranging from public intoxication to drug possession.  Tennessee opened the 2008 season on a down note losing to an eventual 4-8 UCLA team.  Tennessee was 3-6 by the time Fulmer was asked to step down, a record which included close losses to eventual 5-7 Auburn, 7-6 South Carolina, and an underwhelming 13-9 home victory against Northern Illinois.  The week of Fulmer’s resignation, the team lost to unranked Wyoming at home in front of 99,000 less than enthusiastic fans.

Likewise, Larry Coker of Miami won a national championship in 2001, finished 2002 ranked #2 overall  (losing a heartbreaker in the National Championship game), and won the ACC in 2003.  In 2004 and 2005 his teams went 9-3.  The 2005 season, however, marked the beginning of the end for Coker. Coker’s Miami team ended the 2005 season suffering its worst ever bowl defeat at the hands of LSU losing 40-3 in the Peach Bowl which was marred by a brawl in the tunnel following the game.  In 2006 the wheels came off. Miami opened the year 1-2 which included surrendering a come from behind victory to an eventual 7-6 Florida State team and a 31-7 defeat to #5 ranked Louisville. The same season also featured the infamous brawl with Florida International which saw 31 players suspended from both teams. Miami also had to deal with the tragic mid-season murder of defensive tackle Bryan Pata.  Coker’s 6-6 performance in 2006 was the worst performance at Miami in 30 years.  Despite, being just a few years removed from a national championship, Coker was fired at the end of the season amid concerns about player discipline, poor offense, mounting losses to inferior opponents and a gradual decline of the program.

As bad as things might have seemed for the two programs, neither has been able to return to previous success levels of their now-deposed coaches.  Tennessee has now endured the embarrassing defection of Lane Kiffin and instead has been forced to hire Derek Dooley, former head coach and athletic director of Louisiana Tech (WAC) where he accumulated an anaemic 17-20 record.  Dooley hardly seems to be Tennessee’s ideal first choice.   Similarly, Randy Shannon, Miami’s former defensive coordinator, endured an inaugural 5-7 season in 2007, but he does seem to have the team heading back in the right direction evidenced by a 7-6 season in 2008 and a 9-4 season in 2009.  Still Miami looks a long way from returning from returning to championship form.

Elite Coaches dismissed or pressured to resign due to on-field performance: 

 

Team Coach Tenure Winning % Replacement Tenure Winning %
Texas
Fred Akers 1977-1986 0.723 David McWilliams
1987-1991 
0.544
Texas A&M
RC Slocum
1989-2002 0.715 Dennis Franchione
2003-2007 0.533
Tennessee Frank Fulmer
1992-2008 0.745 Lane Kiffin
2009 0.538
Nebraska Frank Solich
1998-2003 0.753 Bill Callahan
2004-2007 0.551
Miami Larry Coker
2001-2006 0.800 Randy Shannon
2007-Present 0.553
Auburn  
Terry Bowden
1993-1998
0.723 Tommy Tuberville 
1999-2008
0.680
Auburn
Tommy Tuberville 
1999-2008 0.680 Gene Chizik
2009-Present 0.615
Ohio State John Cooper
1998-2000 0.703 Jim Tressell
2001-Present
0.817
Georgia Jim Donnan
1996-2000 0.678 Mark Richt
2001-Present 0.788

Replacing an Elite Coach for poor performance has only worked twice over the past 30 years 

John Cooper (1988-2000, 70.3% winning percentage) replaced by Jim Tressell (2001-present, 81.7% winning percentage)

Despite a 111-43-4 record and finishing second overall in the final 1996 and 1998 polls, John Cooper’s dismissal came down to his 2-10-1 record against Michigan, a 3-8 bowl record, a bowl-less 6-6 season in 1999, and academic and discipline problems amongst his players.   

From the Cleveland Fan:

An Ohio State coach is judged almost solely by how he fares against Michigan. That's the way it is and the way it's always been. And Cooper fared disastrously. He lost to Michigan when he had the inferior team- 1988-91, 1997. He lost to Michigan when he had the superior team- 1993, 1995-96.  He went 0-6 in Ann Arbor, where Jim Tressel has already won three times.

Even given his Michigan nightmare, it can be surmised that Coach Cooper fell just one game short of being a Buckeye legend. Imagine how his tenure would be perceived had he beaten the Wolverines in 1993, or in ‘95, or in ‘96, or, had his team protected that 24-9 third-quarter lead against Sparty in ‘98. Winning any one of those four games would have made all the difference between a saint's laurels and a dunce's cap. Keith Jackson said of Doug Flutie's Hail Mary in Miami, "One play- a life it makes." In Coop's case, it's one game- a legacy it breaks.

Jim Tressel took over an 8-4 Ohio State team, and would end his first season in 2001 with a 7-5 record before leading the Buckeyes to an undefeated season and national championship in 2002.  In 2007 and 2008, Tressel’s Ohio State teams played and lost in the national championship game.  Tressel has an 8-1 record over Michigan, and is 4-3 overall in bowl games.    Fans and critics have a variety of views on Tressel which are well captured in this article.  

Jim Donnan (1996-2000, 67.8% winning percentage) replaced by Mark Richt (2001-present, 78.8% winning percentage)

Despite a 40-19 record, Jim Donnan was fired in 2000 after the Bulldogs struggled to two consecutive 8-win seasons, and 3 consecutive losses against Georgia Tech. Donnan’s firing is attributed to his inability to return the program to the national prominence of the Vince Dooley era and to his inability to compete with SEC East rivals Tennessee and Florida.   In Donnan’s final 2000 season, Georgia, which was ranked #10 in the preseason, finished a disappointing 7-4. 

Georgia turned to Mark Richt, a coach with no previous head coaching experience, but someone who had been the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for Florida State, where he coached two Heisman Trophy winners (Charlie Ward and Chris Weinke) and was part of two national championship teams (1993 and 1998)  After matching Donnan’s 8-4 record in his first year, Georgia completed the 2002 season with a 13-1 record.   Richt's teams have won two Southeastern Conference Championships (2002 and 2005), three SEC Eastern Division titles (2002, 2003 and 2005), represented the SEC in three BCS bowl appearances (with a record of 2-1), and finished their season ranked in the top ten of the AP Poll five times (2002-2005, 2007).

Tommy Tuberville, Auburn (1999-2008):  One can make the argument that Tuberville might be better placed in the" elite coach who resigned or was dismissed due to pressure from the administration" rather than in this category.  Tuberville has certainly experienced his fair share of run-ins with the Auburn administration.  Ultimately, however, Tuberville’s perceived underperformance on the field, at least in the eyes of certain Auburn administration members and trustees, justifies including Tuberville’s tenure in this category. 

Tuberville’s detractors point to the 2003 and 2008 seasons in particular as two seasons whereby Auburn started the year with high hopes and failed to live up to those expectations .  In 2003, Auburn would begin the year ranked as the pre-season #6 team, only to end the year 8-5 and unranked.   In Tuberville’s final season in 2008, Auburn was ranked #10 in the pre-season polls, but would finish with a disappointing 5-7 season. 

In between of course, Tuberville had one of the greatest runs of any coach in college history amassing a 42-9 record between 2004-2007 – a span which included Auburn’s incredible undefeated 2004 season which his detractors tend to conveniently forget.  

Tuberville’s critics also cite his penchant for suffering the ‘bad loss’ pointing to the following as examples of games which blotted Tuberville’s tenure:

  • 2001, losing 31-7 to a then 4-5 Alabama (7-5, NR).  (Note: in this list numbers in parentheses represent final season records followed by end-of-season rankinng
  • 2003, as a pre-season #6 team, Auburn started  the season 0-2 after losing by a combined 50-3 against eventual BCS co-champion USC and unranked Georgia Tech (7-6, NR)
  • 2005, losing the season opener 23-14 to unranked Georgia Tech (7-5, NR) at home as the #16 ranked team
  • 2006, losing 27-10 to then unranked Arkansas (10-3, #15) at home as the #3 ranked team
  • 2006, losing 37-15 to then unranked Georgia (9-4, #23) at home as the #5 ranked team
  • 2007, losing 26-23 to South Florida (9-4, NR) at home as the #17 ranked team
  • 2007, losing 19-14 to Mississippi State (8-5, NR) at home
  • 2008, despite a #10 preseason ranking, Auburn would lose to then #19 ranked Vanderbilt (7-6, NR) on the road (the first time Auburn had lost to Vanderbilt since 1955)
  • 2008, losing 25-22 to Arkansas (5-7, NR) at home as the #23 ranked team
  • 2008,  losing to then unranked West Virginia (9-4, #23) on the road

(Author’s note:  Just so that we are clear, personally I believe Auburn made a serious mistake by forcing Tuberville to resign.  Tuberville was a great coach for Auburn, and losing Tuberville will be a decision I believe the school will regret for some time. 

I spend a bit more time on Tuberville here for several reasons including  a)  I feel that placing him in this category requires additional explanation given his turbulent  relationship with the Auburn administration, b) Tuberville is Texas Tech’s new coach, c) Tech fans know little about Tuberville's background,  and d) since we are on the topic, to address the  hope  by some that Tuberville can help Tech eliminate the occasional bad loss – an assumption that is not necessarily supported by Tuberville’s track record.) 

Despite the unrealistic expectations that some fans and administrators place on Elite Coaches to maintain success, as the above records indicate, for the most part it is a mistake to replace an Elite Coach just because a coach experiences a rough season or two.

Penn State, for example, despite rumblings from their fan base, remained steadfast in their support for Joe Paterno throughout a challenging 5 year period of underachievement.  From 2000-2004, Joe Paterno’s Penn State teams went 5-7, 5-6, 9-4, 3-9 and 4-7; a 44.1% winning percentage.  However, since that time, his teams have gone 51-13; achieving a 79.7% winning percentage.

Certainly there are instances where replacing an Elite coach who has lost his spark can be warranted, however, as this discussion suggests, in the rare instances where such a dismissal occurs, football programs do not usually recover immediately,  if ever.

Summary Results for Dismissals due to On-field Performance:

  • Number of Elite Coaches Terminated:  9
  • Best Outcome:  Tie:  Jim Tressell replacing John Cooper, Ohio State and Mark Richt replacing Jim Donnan.
  • Worst Outcome:  Randy Shannon replacing Larry Coker
  • Average Decline in winning percentage between subsequent coaching  tenures:  -13%
  • Outcomes:  6 out of 8 cases resulted in decline
  • Average Duration of Subsequent Tenures:  5.50 years

Elite Coaches who resigned or were dismissed under pressure from the administration

This category includes Elite coaches who, like Leach, wore out their welcome with their respective administrations and whose dismissal was not a function of NCAA allegations or on-field performance.

Team Coach Tenure Winning % Replacement Tenure Winning %
Clemson Ken Hatfield 1990-1993    0.696 Tommy West 1993-1998 0.525
Boston College  Jeff Jagodzinski 2007-2009 0.714 Frank Spanziani 2009-Present 0.615
Arkansas Lou Holtz 1977-1983 0.723 Ken Hatfield 1984-1989 0.753

(Author’s notes:  Like the Leach case, there are multiple theories behind these dismissals, and it is difficult for me to know the precise circumstances for each case.  Instead,   l try to provide the overarching storyline behind each coach’s dismissals.  If any of the DTNers have some knowledge to impart on these cases, I would welcome them – not that any of you need encouragement.)

 Ken Hatfield, Clemson (1990-1993; 69.6% winning percentage): Hatfield compiled a 31-13-1 record at Clemson, but was never really accepted by Clemson fans that still remained loyal to Hatfield’s predecessor Danny Ford (who was dismissed due to NCAA allegations, most of which proved to be relatively minor).  A common saying among Tiger fans was "Howard built, Ford tilled it. Hatfield killed it."  A 5-6 season in 1992 seemed to have sealed Hatfield’s fate, despite rebounding to 8-3 in 1993.   Largely due to fan dissatisfaction, school officials refused to grant him a one-year extension on his contract after the 1993 season.  Hatfield resigned at the end of the regular season citing lack of support from the administration

Jeff Jagodzinski, Boston College (2007-2009; 71.4% winning percentage):  Jagodzinski was named head coach at Boston College in January 2007 to replace Tom O'Brien, who resigned to become the head coach of North Carolina State. In Jagodzinki’s first year at Boston College, he led the Eagles to an 11-3 record, a #10 finish in the polls and an ACC Atlantic Division Championship.

Following the 2008 season, Jagodzinski interviewed for the vacant New York Jets head coaching job, despite being warned not to do so by athletic director Gene DeFilippo.  He interviewed for the position, and was fired the next day despite only completing  two years of his five-year contract with Boston College.  Jagodzinski did not get the Jets job, although he was hired as offensive coordinator for the Tampa Bay Bucanneers in January 2009 only to be fired right before the beginning of the season.

Lou Holtz, Arkansas (1977-1983; 72.3% winning percentage):  At the time of Holtz’s resignation, following a 6-5 season, Arkansas Athletic Director Frank Broyles claimed that Holtz (1977-1983, 72.3% winning percentage) resigned because Holtz was burned out.    Twenty years later Broyles admitted that he fired Holtz for his off-field activities, which apparently included offering political support to the controversial former senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina.   After resigning from Arkansas, Holtz accepted the head coaching job at Minnesota from 1984-1984 where he led his teams to a 10-12 record before taking the reins at Notre Dame and leading them to a National Championship in 1988.

Summary Results for Dismissals or Forced Resignations by a School's Administration

  • Number of Elite Coaches Terminated:  3
  • Best Outcome:   Ken Hatfield replacing Lou Holtz, Arkansas
  • Worst Outcome:  Tommy West replacing Ken Hatfield, Clemson
  • Average Decline between subsequent coaching  tenures:  -15%
  • Outcomes:  2 out of 3 cases resulted in declines.
  • Average Duration of Subsequent Tenures:  NA.  (Shannon and Spanziani are still early in their tenures)

Note that this survey does not include Gary Moeller (Michigan, 1990-1994, 73.3% winning percentage) in this group.  Moeller was forced to resign after several  witnesses reported him being drunk and disorderly in public.  This sort of unusual incident would qualify for this category, however, Moeller was replaced by his assistant Lloyd Carr, who by then had been an assistant coach at Michigan for 15 years.  

Returning to Glory

Having dismissed an Elite Coach, how long did it take these 18 programs to equal or exceed the success of the unseated coach?     

In half of the 18 cases, the following programs have yet to return to their past glory. 

School     Coach      Tenure Winning % Reason for Dismissal Years to Return to Previous Success Levels Coaching Changes
Auburn Tommy Tuberville  1999-2008 0.680 Onfield Peformance

1 year - have not returned

1
Tennesee Philip Fulmer 1992-2008 0.745 Onfield Performance

1 year - have not returned

2
Boston College Jeff Jagodzinski 2007-2009 0.714 Administration

1 year -have not returned

1
Miami Larry Coker 2001-2006 0.800 Onfield Performance

3 years - have not returned

1
Washington Rick Neuhiesel 1999-2002 0.686 NCAA Allegations

7 years - have not returned

3
Texas A&M RC Slocum 1989-2002 0.715 Onfield Performance

7 years-have not returned

2
Colorado Rick Neuhiesel 1995-1998 0.702 NCAA Allegations

11 years-have not returned

2
Auburn Terry Bowden 1990-1993 0.723 Onfield Performance

12 years-have not returned

2
Clemson Danny Ford  1990-1993 0.696 NCAA Allegations

16 years-have not returned

4

 Among the other 9 cases where the teams have managed to regain success, the turnaround time has averaged just over 5 years and ranges from less than one year to thirteen years.

School     Coach      Tenure Winning % Reason for Dismissal Years to Return to Previous Success Levels Coaching Changes
Ohio State John Cooper 1988-2000 0.703 Onfield Peformance

<1 year - Hiring Jim Tressell

1
Georgia Jim Donnan 1996-2000 0.678 Onfield Performance

<1 year - Hiring Mark Richt

1
Auburn Pat Dye 1981-1992 0.697 NCAA Allegations

<1 year -Hiring Terry Bowden

1
Auburn Terry Bowden 1993-1996 0.723 Onfield Performance

<1 year- Hiring Tommy Tuberville

1
Arkansas Lou Holtz 1977-1983 0.723 Administration

<1 year - Hiring Ken Hatfield

1
Nebraska Frank Solich 1998-2003 0.753 Onfield Performance

6 years - Hiring Bo Pelini

2
Oklahoma Barry Switzer 1973-1988 0.826 NCAA Allegations

10 years - Hiring Bob Stoops

4
Texas Fred Akers 1977-1986 0.723 Onfield Performance

12 years- Hiring Mack Brown

3
Alabama Gene Stallings  1990-1996 0.805 NCAA Allegations

13 years-Hiring Nick Saban

5

Here we define a return to previous success levels in broader terms that are not necessarily dependent on strictly comparing winning percentages.  For example, although Bob Stoops’ overall winning percentage is not greater than Barry Switzer’s record, this survey defines Oklahoma’s performance under Stoops as a return to elite status as evidenced by OU’s BCS championship in 2000 and 6 top ten finishes in 11 seasons. 

 This portion of the analysis also defines the circumstances for Alabama and Nebraska in a similar fashion.  Nick Saban has now won a championship returning Alabama to its previous heights last seen under Gene Stallings, and Bo Pelini, whose selection here might admittedly be premature, seems to have positioned Nebraska at its previous levels under Frank Solich.  

I include Tommy Tuberville’s tenure at Auburn in this list, because Tuberville was able to match Terry Bowden’s performance at Tuberville's peak.

So what are the common threads that we see in the five examples where Elite Coaches were dismissed regardless of circumstances and whereby the successors were able to subsequently equal or exceed the success of their predecessors?

  • In 1 of the 5 instances, the replacement coach had prior head coaching experience at a major FBS program where he experienced some  success (Tuberville, Mississippi, 25-20 record).
  • In 3 of the 5 instances, the replacement coach had prior head coaching experience at minor programs with excellent results (Ken Hatfield, Air Force, 26-32-1; Jim Tressell, Youngstown State, 135-57-2; Terry Bowden, Samford, 45-23-1). Note that Hatfield took Air Force from a 2-9 record in his first year to a 10-2 record in his final year before taking the job at Arkansas.
  • In 1 of the 5 instances, the replacement was a long-time assistant coach at a successful program (Mark Richt, Florida State).
  • In 2 of the 5 instances, the team had won 8 games before dismissing an Elite Coach (Ohio State 8-4, 2000; Georgia 8-4, 2000), while the remaining 3 programs won six games or less (Auburn 5-5-1, 1992; Auburn 3-8, 1998; Arkansas 6-5, 1983).

None of these examples specifically reflect Texas Tech’s current circumstances.    In the two cases where a school had at least 8 wins prior to dismissing an elite coach (Texas Tech was 9-4 in its final year under Leach), one of the new hires, Mark Richt, was a highly regarded assistant coach from a successful program while the other replacement, Jim Tressel, had been extremely successful as a head coach of a minor program.  In Mark Richt’s first season, Georgia finished the season with an 8-4 record ,  identical to the previous year’s record.  In Jim Tressel’s first season, Ohio State slipped slightly from 8-4 to 7-5. 

Based on just two somewhat similar cases, even if you are the world’s biggest optimist, at best you could only expect Tuberville to match the Texas Tech’s victory count from the previous season.  Given the major upheaval that accompanies any head coaching change, especially at the upper echelon of college football where room for error is minimal, even the best coaches (i.e. Jim Tressel, Mark Richt) require time to stamp their imprimatur on a program.  

It is unrealistic to expect Tuberville to exceed Leach’s accomplishments in his first year.  Similarly, it is not enough to say that the Administration is replacing Leach with a better coach in Tuberville  (and other such arguments which ignore Tuberville’s own failings).  As this survey indicates, no matter who is brought in, the odds of improving on an Elite Coach’s previous success is slim to none – and in the very best of circumstances, those cases which represent less than 1% of the coaching tenures examined here, will likely require at least one year.

Furthermore, using his terms at Mississippi and Auburn as a guide, Tuberville’s history suggests that it will take him several years before he is able to equal Leach’s record and do so on a sustained basis.  Should Tuberville fail to outperform Leach, we should not be surprised. 

Final Comments

One of the objectives of this analysis is to better understand the context of the Tech administration’s and Board of Regent’s decision to terminate Mike Leach.  In the rare instances that an Elite Coach has been dismissed or forced to resign, each time the respective administration and ever hopeful fans have chimed, "this time is different"--claiming that the previous experiences replacing an Elite Coach no longer apply and that the new situation bears little similarity to past disasters. This analysis sadly proves that premise wrong.

The remarkable thing about Leach is that he really is very good, in spite of all the people who say he is very good.

Mike Leach was not just any coach.  He is an Elite Coach and one of the best coaches of his generation.  When you look back at Leach’s peers, among those top 23 coaches possessing a minimum tenure of 10 years as mentioned earlier, what stands out is that Leach’s record was not accomplished at a Michigan, Ohio State or other traditional power.  Leach’s record was developed at school possessing far less resources and far less talent.  Leach’s innovation and his ability to inspire his players to outwork and outsmart their opponents is what put Texas Tech into the national discussion. 

Many have tried to marginalize Leach’s accomplishments by writing him off as a good offensive coach who was never able to put it all together.  That characterization is categorically false.  Leach’s performance, measured by the bottom line of producing wins, suggests otherwise. Over the past 5 years, Texas Tech’s winning percentage increased to 71.5%.  Many fans were expecting 2010 to be another breakout season which offered a real possibility of winning the Big 12 South and playing in the Big 12 championship.   If you are looking for an offensive coach trapped in a head coach’s body, look no further than Charlie Weiss or Rich Rodriguez.  Leach is not that coach.

Others have dismissed Leach’s chances of getting another job, a presumption which does not withstand even minimal scrutiny.   Among the twenty-six active coaches aged 45-54 heading up major BCS football programs as defined here, Leach has the sixth highest winning percentage (following Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly, Bob Stoops, Mark Richt, and Paul Johnson).

The majority of FBS football programs are starving for success and an Elite Coach of Leach’s caliber rarely comes onto the market.  UCLA jumped at the chance to hire Rick Neuheisel whose Colorado team  incurred  51 NCAA infractions, who sued the University of Washington,  and who was censured by his coaching peers

Few will buy the concussion and insubordination canard being peddled by Tech Administration once they familiarize themselves with the facts.  Athletic directors at competing schools should be salivating at the chance to bring in Leach. 

When you review the historical precedents, you have to ask yourself what kind of management team throws out a coach with Leach’s accomplishments for a de minimis chance of marginally improving upon that success?  Which of you would make a similar decision running your own organization?

When the dust settles, Leach will brush himself off, and be back coaching in no time.  That’s because Leach is a winner and that’s what winners do. 

In Leach’s place, Tech has hired a different kind of coach who is also a winner.  But the question lies not in whether or not Tuberville is good enough.  He is.

The question is whether Tech will find itself in a once in a generation situation as did Georgia when it hired Mark Richt or will it become yet another rudderless team, like Clemson, left to wander for 16 plus years in the college football wilderness.   If Tech is successful, then Tuberville will deserve the credit.  He will have pulled off the equivalent of a historical miracle.

However, should Tuberville fail, the responsibility for that failure will rest squarely with the Tech Administration and Board of Regents.

In the meantime, Mike Sherman is treading water in College Station, while ghosts of David McWilliams awaken and memories of pine boxes resurface.

History is not on Tech's or Tuberville's side.  Will this time be different?

Author's note: I am putting the coaching data on google spreadsheets and will make it available for everyone's review as soon as I can.

 

 

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Great stuff....

We all really do know about Leach’s greatness if you have been a red raider for very long. This is just a phrase but it is so true here…" it is all so very sad"!!!!!! The South Plains Drifter does have a chance to really make history…..can we do twice in a row? I know there are skeptics out there but I do think SPD is smart enough now that he really will run a very close Offense to the Air Raid. He is a Defensive coach and understands that he must sell tickets and Air Raid will sell @ TTech!(thanks to the Pirate) But really it is very great that our new DC was the LB coach @ the national champs! Doesn’t mean we will win on this year but it can’t hurt!!! So all in all where we are with this Admin. it could still be a very special 5 yrs. or so in spite of the “Tower people”. So all I know to do is “Go, Fight, Win” Red Raiders, root for the Pirate wherever he ends up, and I can’t wait for spring practice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks again London!!!!!!! Wreck’Em Tech

by techgolf44 on Feb 12, 2010 12:27 PM CST reply actions  

You Sir are a G@#$% D*&^% genius!

Cant wait to see the response from the hinterland. If this post dosn’t chum the waters for the Hance, Meyers et al “apologist” then nothing will.
Very nice work Sir.

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Feb 12, 2010 12:30 PM CST reply actions  

I will say this is smart. I will also say I only read the abstract. Freaking long : )

by Tech92 on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM CST reply actions  

come on '92

It’s worth the read. Very, very smart and original.

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Feb 12, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn’t have time…I just did read it all. It’s interesting. Though I don’t think I would characterize the concept of Tuberville having success as a coaching miracle. But we’ll see how it all shakes out in a few years.

by Tech92 on Feb 12, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

facts is facts.......but folks win the lottery every week.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

fair enough

I was kidding. Couldn’t find the joking font. I’m sure I should have been doing something else during the day Friday (i.e. business).

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Feb 15, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

"Faster Horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money." Tom T Hall

by cweber7377 on Feb 12, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

All I can do is hope for the best. Thanks for putting it all in perspective, LR.

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 12, 2010 12:32 PM CST reply actions  

London

Very informative. I have read a number of your posts and as always this one is full of great info.

by RaiderDoc on Feb 12, 2010 12:40 PM CST reply actions  

Wow.....

Very informative post London. I have no idea how long that took you, but it’s very good. I’ve forwarded it to lots of people directing traffic to the site. Wonderful post and great information.

On a side note, my head is killing me.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Feb 12, 2010 1:06 PM CST reply actions  

I've been waiting for this post

since you mentioned you were working on it a few weeks ago. Tremendous insight. Thanks for pulling it all together.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 12, 2010 1:11 PM CST reply actions  

Tubs might be a Red Raider ...

My own take is that Tubs will make pretty decent splash in Lubbock. If the Raiders win the South Division then he will bolt with updated resume in hand. If the Raiders simply equal what a Leach coached did in say any year during the 2005-6- 7 seasons – for arguments sake 8- 5 with a Bowl win – then he stays. If they somehow get a 10- 2 season and then a Bowl win then all bets are off. He probably will want to get a League Championship on his resume before he pushes off for USC, Ohio State or whatever high profile deep pockets school is hunting for a replacement. I am a little skeptical of this carrying me out in Pine Box stuff. Just too melodramatic. As far as London’s theory that it’s hard to follow a successful coach and even harder statistically to replace a proven winner. Yeah okay. But the way I look at the data when the school commits to a coaching regime the school gradually improves. If the Coach is a proven winner. Lou Holz, Bill Snyder these guys spring to mind. I think the ingredient here is being a winner i.e. knowing what right looks like – doing that stuff and assembling a quality staff. So my analysis – gut feel is Tubs will be successful in Lubbock. If he has introspectively assessed why his last Auburn team was a poor offensive unit. Absorbed those lessons and applied the intellectual energy to just keep the scoring machine in place while injecting an eye gouging, gut stomaching defense. Well look out! The offensive guys he hired appear to have the mind set and tools to do just that. What I am trying to say is his strength is defense as long as he doesn’t go into a punts all day to get field position i.e. play for the other guys mistake mode. Then the team will be okay providing they can keep the uber aggressive offensive stance.

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Feb 12, 2010 1:12 PM CST reply actions  

If I lived in London, I would be spending more time drinking a proper pint of bitters

and less time researching the history of coaching dismissals….yuk, now we have stats to support what most of us how have lived that same 30 years already know because we pay attention.

I am looking forward to some Spring practice reports….what a dreary, dark, dank, gray winter….will the clouds please go away for 3 days of sunshine….

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Feb 12, 2010 1:15 PM CST reply actions  

On a side note,

everytime London posts an article like this, all the links and usernames are blue and purple. Does anybody else have this “feature” going on or is it just me?

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Feb 12, 2010 1:49 PM CST reply actions  

must be an EU thing....

or global warming.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

or maybe the KY add just spilled on it

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

That's strange, because the his and hers

are in their respective bottles, colored blue and purple. Odd…..

Not hijacking your post London, just thought it was kinda strange.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Feb 12, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

yep

same on my system. not sure why

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Feb 12, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

LR posts in a different font

which somehow changes the action button colors to blue and purple. Or it could be that Kentucky thing you guys keep talking about. What does Kentucky sell in a bottle?

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 12, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Myself as well

"Faster Horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money." Tom T Hall

by cweber7377 on Feb 12, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Awesome research and composition

Londan great work and analysis – especially since it agrees with how I see things. I see three scenarios unfolding in the coming years.
1) Tuberville overcomes history and actually improves the Leach record – in which case he uses this as a resume builder and is outta here on a fast plane.
2) Tubberville meets the record of Leach and we stand around asking, “Now why did we go thru all this?”
3) Tubberville indeed follows the historical trend and we end up in purgatory of the Big X11.

In the mean time, as you correctly point out, Leach picks himself up, although much harder to do with all that loot in his pocket, dusts himself off, and goes about creating another winning programs -CAUSE THATS WHAT WINNERS DO.

Gracias amigo.

note to KW, Yes, but I kinda like the blue and purple.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

my guess would be that #2 happens, but I would not rule out #3.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Fantastic. And this is why Tech fans are not getting over Leach. He is awesome. Good luck to Tubberville.

by logan5555 on Feb 12, 2010 1:57 PM CST reply actions  

I'll have input after work

But Great article. Very commendable, LondonRaider.

TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

by TTpilk645 on Feb 12, 2010 2:51 PM CST reply actions  

wow - Pirate Captain: Hire LR as your agent, NOW

LR – Extraordinary analysis. Very smartly done and I have absolutely no idea how you found all this data. Always knew Leach was an overachiever, but never had the data to support it.
The only downside to this post is now I am a little depressed and less optimistic on our future. I am still on the optimistic side though.
The upside is this confirms what a bunch of ignorant, egotisitical jackasses we have leading our fine institution. This data alone should compel Hance et al to resign!
Well done. Pints on me next time I’m in London. But don’t hold out, I’ve never been.

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Feb 12, 2010 2:55 PM CST reply actions  

+1 on the depessing part

And I’ve been to London. They looked at me like I was crosseyed when I asked for ice for my drink. Then I got about 3 little cubes. And the beer was plumb hot.

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 12, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Go back and reference Joe Pa's record

Unbelievable. He’s a legend. 70+ winning percentage since 1966. Wow.

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Feb 12, 2010 2:56 PM CST reply actions  

haven't read all the comments, so someone else may have pointed this out

Gene Stallings didn’t resign b/c of NCAA violations.

He left ‘Bama b/c he couldn’t stand athletic director Bob Backrath, formerly of Texas Tech. Backrath eventually was forced out due to continued NCAA violations. The funny thing is, after Backrath left Tech, the NCAA slapped Tech down, too. You’d think ’Bama would have noticed the pattern with him.

by Beergut on Feb 12, 2010 3:45 PM CST reply actions  

But hey! The new staff wear ties now.

So they’ll look sharp no matter what happens on the field. Don’t discount the comfort level people get from seeing a tie on their head coach.

Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.

by mbrown603 on Feb 12, 2010 3:51 PM CST reply actions  

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand 1

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

To borrow a line from KWash...

Here we go…

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 12, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

i prefer the "real coach" or "lets have a couple on the deck" look

Ties. This is not the N freakin BA.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 4:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I turned 50 last year

I realized that in the last 10 years I wore a suit and tie exactly 4 times: Two weddings and two funerals. My father wore a tie more times every week of his life than I’ve worn in a decade. I do believe that the death of necktie wearing has been a great boon to the males of America. Polo & rugby shirts forever! You can even bury me in one.

Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.

by mbrown603 on Feb 12, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Worn a coat and tie for 30 years now,

but only because I was forced to by ‘courtroom decorum’ rules. But I’m about to retire and that stuff is gonna get real dusty.

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 12, 2010 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

As compared to a confused look.

And maybe a go to shed directly card. Nothing says Division 1 football like that. Guns Up.

Guns Up!

by Brad_R on Feb 12, 2010 4:16 PM CST reply actions  

Hisory...

Is a bitch- me

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 12, 2010 4:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

History.... That is

Waiting for TTUMAR to take this data and show that tubs will win 10 games this year.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 12, 2010 4:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Hisory is a bitch too.

No need to sugar coat.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 12, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

True story:

I was doing 56 in a 55 mph zone and got pulled over. The cop walked up to the truck with the mirrored glasses, night stick, badge, gun, the whole nine yards. Only it wasn’t a cop. It was hisory disguised as a cop. Hisory punched me in the face, took my wallet, and drove off laughing.

Hisory truly is a mean, evil, bitch.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 13, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

That's His Story

It doesn’t mean it’s true.

Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.

by mbrown603 on Feb 13, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

rah rah rah

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 4:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Can't.....

Too busy standing in the corner punching myself in the nuts as I sob “not like this….not like this”

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Feb 12, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Also.....

Fabulous job LondonRaider.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Feb 12, 2010 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I need a beer now...

especially after LR’s outing of Tuberville’s penchant for the ‘bad loss". Didnt someone else do a in depth Fanpost regarding Leach’s same predilection and how we expect Tuberville to correct that? Oh yeah, it was me. The Pirate Captain, The Riverboat Gambler, and the Correctable Loss

There is no doubt our circumstances are rare. I just hope the last few facts LR made about The Drifter being good enough to replace Cap’n Leach trump history and it turns out more like Tressel, Bowden, Richt, Tuberville, and Hatfield

The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!

Respect Everyone....Fear No One!

Wreck 'em, Tech!

by Tortilla Pirate on Feb 12, 2010 4:49 PM CST reply actions  

Pressure Is On

Great work LondonRaider. Its good that Tubs knows that the pressure is on. I think we all can agree that nothing less than 10 wins with this team in 2010 is not acceptable. I won’t go as far to say anything less than a BCS bid is a disappointment, but two wins over Texas, OU, and A&M is a must. Tubs has to beat Texas and Nebraska at home, and he has to split with OU and A&M on the road. Go Red Raiders.

by Btech on Feb 12, 2010 5:37 PM CST reply actions  

B-Tech

I see it a little differently. I think I agree more with blackbeard.

If Tuberville exceeds Leach’s record, he’s going to have the administration by the short and curlies. He’ll have bailed them out of a monumental blunder, and believe me, he will want to be well compensated for doing so. If our Admin doesn’t cough up the dough, others will be happy to do so.

If Tuberville matches Leach’s performance, other schools will come knocking regardless. Each year there are about 15-20 coaching coaching vacancies that come up. Tuberville’s name will be mentioned everytime there is an opening at Tennessee, Florida State, Clemson, Texas A&M or other name school with deeper pockets than Tech. Derek Dooley is getting paid $2.2 million per year at Tennesee while Tuberville has a $1.5 million contract at Tech. I believe that will be an issue next year.

If Tuberville coaches Tech at it’s talent level as he did at Mississippi, there will be alot of pissed off Leach fans, and instead of dealing with that headache, will be keeping his ears open instead.

Unless Tech opens up its wallet, I think we have a hard time keeping ahold of Tuberville in any case.

"This time it's different."

by LondonRaider on Feb 12, 2010 5:48 PM CST reply actions  

hat tip sir

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 12, 2010 6:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

+1

"Faster Horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money." Tom T Hall

by cweber7377 on Feb 12, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe but.........

I admit I’m a half full guy so

  1. South Plains Drifter is a multi-Millionaire per Auburn
  2. SPD is 55 yrs old and has 2 sons that are in Jr. High
  3. SPD has family from/in West Texas
    So I think he will be @ TTech for 5 yrs. if he stays @ or exceeds Leach’s records. And if SPD leaves I sure like Willis(I know we will have to see) ! All we can do now is root for the Raiders!!!! Wreck’Em Tech

by techgolf44 on Feb 12, 2010 6:22 PM CST reply actions  

Great and detailed analysis…

First, I agree that Leach is a brilliant coach and we at Tech were damn lucky to have him for 10 years. Tuberville matching his success would be a success and as LondonRaider analysis shows the odds aren’t good. My brother, a Florida grad and also a well read and great football mind, scolded me last year when I complained about Leach not getting the team up after being blown away by OU. He floored me when he reminded me that Leach has won more with less and is the top drawer coach in FBS. I said better than Meyer… he said better…his point was that Meyer started with an A+ recruiting class where Leach started with a C. Meyer had to maintain the A and Leach had to coach up and be innovative to win. I agree that Leach will land on his feet and continue as one of the elite coaches. Our administration was stupid to fire him.

What worries me about Tuberville is not the offense. I think the pieces and coaching are in place to put points near Leach totals for the immediate future. It’s the defense. Can the players in the pipeline of an improving defense under Leach change to a 3-4 or 3-3-5 and get even better or will they flounder. If they flounder, then be prepared for taking some backward steps. This is the break in forward momentum that LondonRaider was referencing when he said that Leach was even better over the past 5-years with an improving defense. I truly hope that Tuberville makes Tech football better, but the odds are against him.

"Players are made when they get here", Tuberville

by jdhud on Feb 12, 2010 7:42 PM CST reply actions  

I have no concerns

That the d will be better….it is the offense that has to suffer. It was mikes baby, and without him I will kiss your ass if it doesn’t take a dip. The hope is that we make up for it defensively.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 12, 2010 8:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Honestly?

I agree with everyone that the D was our biggest need of improvement…but isn’t it just blind optimism to think that the new D won’t stumble a bit, perhaps even (gasp) step back a little, due to; new schemes, new positions, not having the right players for said schemes and positions?

by Damien Franco on Feb 13, 2010 6:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Always with the negative waves

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 13, 2010 6:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Realistically...

Tubs is all about d….The d has to be better. We have been convincing ourselves for 10 years that we are playing better d. I see tubs like Wade Phillips on d, hopefully he won’t have dumbface like him.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 13, 2010 10:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Ratios, percentages,...uh...Math on a Friday night?!?!

oops…just saying my head hurts now…thing is this is aGREAT post london. I see what cTT is up against. But he may be in a better position than any of those that he follows. Able to plug and play with the offense AND defense with people that understand and have played versions of the Air Raid under those that developed it. And defensive coaches that have been successful in NCAA and NFL as players and VERY successful as coaches. I’ve heard it said that Luck is the meeting point of preparation and opportunity. cTT is standing at that point.

by G. Kevin on Feb 12, 2010 8:13 PM CST reply actions  

It all comes down to player skill level

The more conventional TT is in his coaching, the more obvious the difference in player talent will be between Tech & the programs they play who recruit top 20 classes. TT’s best chance to succeed will be to go after & get the better players that look at Texas, Alabama, Florida and USC. Stop settling for the leftovers.

Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.

by mbrown603 on Feb 12, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why they are called Coaches.

These guys are pros. They will install whatever defenses they think will be effective against the teams on our schedule, evaluate the talent we have and “plug” the right player into the right postition. Then it IS simply a matter of reps. I’m not too worried about the defense. Bama’s linebackers took no quarter and showed no mercy. If Willis can do that with the whole of the defense we should be fine. On the offense, the biggest thing to me is the coaching staff trusting our QB stable to make their own reads. I think the basic game plan will not change overall. But can Neal trust the on-field generals or do we play prairie dog? Even if we do, as long Batch touches 2 or 3 times a drive and we can create that “space” with multiple receivers, points will be scored. Maybe I am too optimistic. But then again life is too short to be worried ALL the time! I’m ready for April 17th!

by G. Kevin on Feb 13, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

And maybe too the idea that

if Leach can have an immediate impact, implementing his offense, why can Tubs have a similar success? Tubs is renowned for being a defensive guru, much like Leach is an offensive guru. Ultimately there’s no right answer here as we won’t know until Texas Tech hits the field. I’d also tend to think that unless Scott Smith and Lawrence Rumph can play immediately, or the young players that hardly played a down last year can step up, then there’s a good chance the defense falls a bit simply because of lost personnel (B. Sharpe and D. Howard).

Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation

by Seth C on Feb 14, 2010 4:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I was kidding Damien earlier for being negative

But I actually have the same thoughts. The positive side tells me that these guys know defense at a level Leach and Ruff could only dream of, but the negative side says we can only do as much as our curent athletes are able to do.

We might compare it with the offense last year. It sook half the season to get the O-line personnel figured out and that weak spot hurt us in several games.

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 14, 2010 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

We lost a lot more than Sharpe and Howard

Add in Henley and Jones, both DL stalwarts who have played a lot of football the past 3 or 4 years…both were good enough that neither Perry or Wade could crack the line up for significant PT.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Feb 14, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe that to think the offense will be "plug and play" is what is optimistic.

I mean, I would hope that anyone who reads “coaching for dummies” could improve our defense. I’m not saying that anyone could do it, but more that when you are at the bottom, the only way is up.
Offensively, the Raiders have been on top of their game for quite a while. Even though last year was not as productive as some, it was still damn good. The biggest challenge for tt in my opinion is to keep the Offense clicking. That, my friends, is not plug and play. It is merely repetition, repetition, over and over and over. It is also creating new ways to get into “space”.
Then, you also have the entertainment portion of the equation. I mean, to some Ohio State runnning the ball all the time and passing only as a last resort is “good footbawwww”. Me, I prefer the unconventional approach that has been the signature of the Captain.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 13, 2010 7:09 AM CST up reply actions  

A few random thoughts ...

Excellent analysis, both thought-provoking and entertaining! However, bear in mind that the results are skewed by the very small sample size. It’s extremely difficult to formulate any type of projection based on the few scenarios that match the debacle at Tech.

It might be instructive to step back from the small-scale analysis to a large-scale analysis. The real problem with repeating winning records after a coaching change is that there aren’t that many elite coaches. (Warning – obvious alert) There are a whole lot of coaches in the bottom 90%, and the odds of getting one of those is much, much higher. Matter of fact, half of the coaches are in the bottom 50% – what a surprise! The odds of getting a poor coach after a run of luck makes him look good is also very high. So – I’m thinking it’s not so much that the replacement coach after a firing debacle is inherently screwed – it’s more that great coaches are a very rare breed and getting two in a row is very difficult. Tech may have beaten the odds when they hired Tuberville, who has consistently demonstrated quality coaching and recruiting skills.

As aptly presented by LondonRaider, Leach is an elite coach with a 67% win record. Tuberville is an elite coach with a similar winning percentage. Leach acquired his winning record while building a prolific offense – development of defense lagged. Tuberville acquired his wins on the back of his defense. Which is more difficult – growing an offense or a defense? If growing an offense (especially of the character of Tech’s) is more difficult, then Tuberville is poised for a great tenure at Tech as the more difficult task is done. If he can maintain the offensive excellence currently exhibited at Tech (or even get close) and graft on to it a quality defense, Tuberville will look like a genius. Perhaps when he accepts Big 12 Coach of the Year, he can paraphrase Isaac Newton – "If I passed further than most, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants."

As far as Tuberville’s salary, I think Tech administration will be much happier to shell out the money for a head coach that brings value-added presence to the university. I have a suspicion that football is not the first thing Hance or Bailey think of nor the last thing on their minds each day – at least, not before they fired Leach. I think their #1 priority is achieving Tier 1 status for Texas Tech and one of their best tools for increasing university stature and alumni giving went AWOL most of the time. If Tuberville does the types of things with the community and Tech alumni that he did at Auburn, Tech and Lubbock will both come out winners and the administration can more easily justify a higher salary.

Thanks for your patience with this "first comment." I enjoy the discussion on DTN and hope that the Tuberville tenure at Tech is enjoyable and rains down destruction on UT and A&M. Repeatedly.

by TechRaider78 on Feb 12, 2010 9:39 PM CST reply actions  

tech raider78 well said

Your thought process mirrors my own. Tubs is a more comfortable fit for the university administration. They get their spokesman.
There is a shot perhaps 10 – 15 % that the ofense is more potent; but likely a bit of conservative play callling will shred off 750 to 1000 yards. The defensive scheme well I dont buy that no one cared about defense on Leach coached team. I think our defenders were out matched. Climbing up to an elite status on that front will be a real challnhge . Someone – either – I miss w tex or b beard said it already it’s about the talent coming to the hub city.

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Feb 13, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Well said TechRaider

I was trying to get my thoughts together around some of this and you made a great point.

I was struggling with the thoughts about the ‘odds’ because I do not believe that the past behaviors of people necessarily can be projected as a prediction…or as ‘odds.’ I can apply odds to a roulette wheel or to dice, but not to people—people make decisions based on circumstances.

But thinking in terms of the odds of getting an equivalent coach in the set of coaches who might be available each year works.

Then there is the aspect that some times even successful, talented people do not continue to do well just because other factors come in….or vice versa, guys who have not demonstrated great success do simply because things do not come together. I realize that is part of the ‘odds’ conversation, but I do not believe that it is calcuable to any conclusion other than a soft one.

I also find your comments about Hance, Bailey, etal to be refreshing, they are working on bigger fish than college football, although I believe they realize the value of the athletic department’s contribution TTU’s image.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Feb 13, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions  

i just pray that

The stooges are better at Tier 1 than the are at athletics. Wonder who they pay off or pay back for that? I have no trust but can’t imagine why

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 13, 2010 9:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Agree +10000

First off, great job on research London, makes me wonder if you have a life, but all of us have seemed to put ours on hold since the loss of The Captain. But it is time to move on! Leach is not coming back, and trying to show how that is a great mistake may be an intgeresting academic exercise,but it has no effect on reality. I think TechRaider hit on the crux of the issue. This is about what is best for Texas Tech, and that goes beyond the football program. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Leach and his quirky personality and his results on the field, but you have to admit he could be an embarasement as well. Do not let his record on the field be the sole measure af how he was perceived on a larger stage. Like much of life, perception becomes reality, and the reality was that Leach and Tech (read administration) could not exist together. It happens sometimes. I think that Tuberville will be a good representative of TT. I also think his succes on the football field will be equal to if not greater than Leach’s. I view it like a crap table at Vegas, stay with me on this. when you are in Vegas at the crap table, would you prefer to be at a table where everyone is betting against the shooter or one where everyone is hoping the shooter has success and are placing their bets with him? I believe positive enrgy breeds positive results and I also believe if you wish for success of others you will have success yourself. Same with my school. I will always wish for success for Texas Tech and success for whoever coaches or whoever is the President or Chancellor. Wreck Em!!

by austinrr on Feb 13, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Can you give us a few examples when Leach made an embarrassment of himself?

I’ve got friends all over the country. Some are Tech fans but many are not. I can’t recall ever being embarrassed by Leach. To most he was a breath of fresh air in a world of Mack Browns.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 13, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

captain was no is a sense of pride for me

Never embarrased ever. Hance and myers on the otherhand

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 13, 2010 2:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Let's Not Forget...

Leach also made scheduling four rum-dumbs to start the season an art form. So Tech go four auto wins each year. Not a bad deal, but it does pad the stats a bit. Bill Snyder started that at Kansas State. I am excited to see what Tubs will do at Tech… especially on defense.

Guns Up!

by Brad_R on Feb 12, 2010 11:19 PM CST reply actions  

He also

Made beating a and m as regular as a visit to the head after Mexican food.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 13, 2010 12:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Everybody does that

From 2000-2008 Auburn had 4 victories over LA Monroe, 3 over LA Tech, 2 over Ball State, and 2 over Western KY. There were also the heartstopping victories over The Citadel, Tenn. Tech, Arkansas State, Buffalo, Tulane, Northern Illinois, UT Martin, and the perennial powerhouse Western Carolina.
The SEC is a tough conference and tune up games are necessary. So is the Big 12. Almost every school does this. Except maybe Notre Dame, and we’ve seen how well that’s paid off.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 13, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't exactly calll UofH and Nevada

rum dums. Also remember that due to our size, it is difficult to get a home and home with some of the more prestige schools. Recall that Spike went to Ohio State and Penn State, but the yankees did not come here. Granted USC did a home and home once.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions  

or TCU and NC State with Phillip Rivers

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 14, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

and I think that our QB that day outplayed Rivers

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Since Tuberville is on the list twice,

Does this make him the perfect scapegoat, the go-to-guy, or some of both? I sure hope he does well. The bad news is if he does do really well, the GOBs at Tech will feel justified and many fans will not expect anything to happen to them. The good news is if he does really well, Texas Tech will become an enigma in the history line and Tuberville will become a “Saint”.

I am not sure if there are ANY examples in history to draw from, at any time, to compare to the Leach/Tech scenario. You would have to fine another program where the administration, or a part of it, connived almost a year ahead to pull something like this off. The firing of Leach was not an on-the-spot decision, as the “tapes” prove, but it was planned when he signed the extension. Hance NEVER expected to have to pay Leach a dime of the new terms. When the James gang gave him the out he wanted, he capitalized, moving swiftly and ruthlessly. I feel that no matter what Leach said or did, he was gone. Now, find another program that did something similar, then we can compare. What Hance and his GOBs did was the most fraudulent thing I have ever witnessed and I still feel they are due for some kind of retribution.

I also think that Tuberville will at least match Leach’s record last year. For Texas Tech football, that is a good thing. For Texas Tech’s reputation, not so much, because the James gang and the GOBs are still around.

Again, great stuff, LondonRaider. I just feel what it really tells us is that we have been witness to, and Leach, Texas Tech and all Tech fans, have all been subject of, the most bazaar handling of a college coach, successful or not, in history.

TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

by TTpilk645 on Feb 12, 2010 11:55 PM CST reply actions  

Well...

That was interesting to read and ultimately pretty discouraging. I still think we defy the odds because aside from our defense being reworked I don’t think we lose our major strengths, and all of our major opposition is down.

by merrik on Feb 13, 2010 12:23 AM CST reply actions  

Great Read!!!

This indicates no matter who the 3 stooges hired as coach (Ruffin, Tubberville, Sonny Dykes or Allah) that Tech was going to lose ground in the win column based on the historical data.

As a loyal Red Raider, I hope we are able to buck the trend and “shock the world”.

by ttu_porters on Feb 13, 2010 7:35 AM CST reply actions  

Great article but now I feel sick...

…having graduated from Tech in ‘87 I’m all too familiar with the years of mediocrity in our football program prior to Leach. Thanks to Hance and company it seems that’s exactly what we’re headed for once again.

by Austin, Tx on Feb 13, 2010 9:18 AM CST reply actions  

I am scratching my head

At how many comments state that the offense might be better…..not gonna happen. My hope for improvement will have to come from the d and special teams.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 13, 2010 11:02 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

yep

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 13, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

and yep

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 13, 2010 2:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Well, it might be !!

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Feb 13, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to improve Offense much,,,,,

The comment earlier that Leach cared about Defense really is a bit naive….#1 our defense didn’t event tackle in practice until Ruff became DC, #2 Leach had a famous statement that “he would let the other team score quickly so he could get the ball back”! So in truth defense and special teams really were down the list. What if the South Plains Drifter can keep our offense in the top 10 and then bring in say just a top 30 defense….I think TTech will win some football games!!!!!! Wreck’Em Tech

by techgolf44 on Feb 13, 2010 11:23 AM CST reply actions  

Can London maybe do some research that maybe paints Tech or Tuberville in a positive light? Is everything worth researching just the crap that makes people frustrated and keeps the anger fresh? Leach is gone, most will agree the way it came down was crap, and there is a chance we may not be as good as we have been. Why keep beating it up?

I applaud the effort and time put in to researching and writing these things, LR. You have a gift and it’s cool to see you use it. But these posts don’t give much reason for optimism and I think this program and our fan base need optimism more than they need more validation that the HC got a bad rap and that things may be ugly at some point because of it (I’m sure if you look you can find a reason to be excited about the future…if not, then why bother cheering for Tech – or any school?). Not trying to be Pollyana here, as I don’t disagree with your analysis. And I’m not telling you to get over it…but…I would love to see what you can kick out for us on DTN if you look at things from a positive perspective. There are two sides to every coin.

Again, this is solid research and writing. But let’s try looking for some positives in all this. The fact is we have a proven winner as our new coach…he HAS won a conf championship in the very recent past in the toughest BCS conference…he has had an undefeated season in that same conference…he has hired capable and energetic coaches…he has made a supreme effort to be the face of Texas Tech football in a positive light…we salvaged a decent recruiting class, all things considered…we have a favorable schedule with several of our key opponents facing uncertain position battles…we have two capable senior QBs…we have arguably the best RBs in the conference…we have a defensive coordinator who will be aggressive…

I just see lots of opportunity for success in the future. Until proven otherwise, I refuse to believe that Leach is the ONLY coach in the world who could have success at Tech with today’s football landscape of spread offenses and TV exposure. Utah didn’t fail with a big coaching change…Boise didn’t fail with a big coaching change…why not Tech? If anything, it seems to me that the players were ready for Leach to be gone and may not feel like the jilted lover that the fan base does. In the end, they are the one’s who matter most. Maybe this gives them even more energy and effort.

And I really don’t believe the circumstances of a coach leaving a program have any impact of the next guy’s success. At all.

by Tech92 on Feb 13, 2010 11:24 AM CST reply actions  

I'm not sure...

but my guess is that LR didn’t do this research with the intention of shedding “negative” light on a particular subject.

The analysis just didn’t end up being positive.

I’ve stated before, in comments throughout the site, that history was not on Tubs’ side for having success at Tech (at least not immediately). I did some research on it and my findings were similar (though not as extensive) to what LR dug up.

I’d also like to add that we’ve seen many people write about the potential positives that Tubs brings to Tech. That’s kinda where the whole “Catfish Jesus” name came from. There isn’t a shortage of “Tubs the savior” Kool-aid being served throughout DTN.

by Damien Franco on Feb 13, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Catfish Jesus

brings balance.

"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach

by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 13, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

It's going to suck.....

The first time I disagree with LR, because the dude uses facts (data usually) and makes salient observations based on those facts.
He reports, you decide.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 13, 2010 11:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It's not LR's fault that you can't put lipstick on a pig.

I think it’s comforting that Tuberville is already on this list of “elite coaches” and matched a previous elite’s winning record within a few years.

I think the Joe Paterno comment is a good one. If you have a good coach, keep him around even if he goes through a few rough patches.

by merrik on Feb 13, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Utah and Boise State Play in minor conferences

Against inferior talent. They likely have the best talent in their conference (winning breeds recruiting). Tech doesn’t have that advantage. Tech fields at best the 4th best team in raw talent in the Big 12 South (Texas, OU & ATM outrecruit us every year). Okie State has even outrecruited us the last few years. Don’t you imagine the reality of our recruiting success or lack of it might start to become apparent on the field? That is my $64,000 question. Can Tuberville find the magic formula to beat teams with better players on a consistent basis?

Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.

by mbrown603 on Feb 13, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

True research takes you where it takes you

Not where you you were hoping to go.

Unless of course you’re a Global Warming advocate, in which case it’s okay to disregard conflicting data.

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 14, 2010 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Damien, glad to see that someone else doesn't have a life...

posting at 8AM on a Sunday morning………god I love football….

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 7:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I had the tin foil implanted

And this

"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James

by TechFirst on Feb 14, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Looks very much like Charalton Heston

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Tech92 could do some research to find the positives.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Follow your passion.....

just sayin.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Come on T92!!

A little harsh don’t you think? For the record:

Positives

- T’ville is an Elite Coach (Caveat: But not a savior)
- Leach is an Elite Coach (Caveat: But not perfect)
- Defense: Generally positive. Ancipating better coaching schemes, experienced secondary and linebackers. (Caveat: D-line)
- Defensive coaching hires
- Academics – positive

Negatives

- The decision to fire an elite coach (not for cause)
- Historical record of successfully replacing an elite coach (not good)
- Administration – (hate that there is no accountability)
- T’ville’s recruiting performance – only slighty negative, but not his fault. I can argue it either way.
- Offense: T’Ville’s last go around at Auburn, saw his team finish 104th in total offense (out of 120 teams). Does ‘not having the right type of players’ account for all of that disparity? Neal Brown shows a lot of promise as OC, but the Big 12 ain’t the Sun Belt.
- Going for it on 4th and 1 against UofH

Concerns

- Tuberville will be expensive to retain, and I’m not sure if our Administration will be willing or able to match competing offers.

Of Course:

When the facts change, I change my mind. . . .

 

"This time it's different."

by LondonRaider on Feb 15, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

So....

So when someone on this board can figure out a way to fire the 3 stooges we really cant move on. Cause as a lifelong(50 yrs.) Red Raider I have lived our almost seasons and wait till next year games…. but is beyond any of our control and Tubbs is our coach. We still have a very talented team and have a real chance to aleast win 10 games next year. We all have our rights on this board and that is great but unless Seth writes something I’m inclined to just read that and updates because again if anyone can definitely fing a way to fire the 3 stooges and bring back Leach then this is all just space! Wreck’Em Tech

by techgolf44 on Feb 13, 2010 12:04 PM CST reply actions  

I enjoy the history of this scenario

It does show that expecting an improvement over the last few years would buck the trend. 100% of us hope for this, but it’s worth (IMO) a look at history.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 13, 2010 12:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

London Raider

I thought you worked in the financial sector. Shouldn’t you have been hedging your holdings of Greece’s soveriegn debt this past week instead of writing about football? This is really long, but I am going to make it through tonight after I get out of work.

by TechMSA08 on Feb 13, 2010 2:01 PM CST reply actions  

I don't do hedging

That’s for the smart guys. . .

"This time it's different."

by LondonRaider on Feb 15, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Talent Pool

MBrown I agree that we should try and go for better talent. But at Tech we have to be careful not to let the good 3 and 4 star recruits get away. I spent an entire afternoon looking at the players that Texas, OU, Nebraska, and Texas A&M are recruiting. I only found one player that Texas signed that was even considering Tech. If Tubs can bring in 2 more 4 star recruits and and 1 or 2 5 star recruits, then that would be fantastic. But I think what Leach learned a long time ago was to stay away from those recurits that opt for Texas, OU, Nebraska, and A&M because he knows we can’t land those kids. Leach proved you can win with the cream of the crop of 3 and 4 star recruits. The question is, and we will not know until the fall, can Tubs coach them up, and will these kids fit into his scheme. I think they can, but Tubs has to win 10 games to be equal to or better than the Captain. I am going all in with Tubs, but its going to be all or nothing. Go Red Raiders.

by Btech on Feb 13, 2010 9:23 PM CST reply actions  

so are you going to give up if he doesn't get 10?

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 7:56 AM CST up reply actions  

LR, gotta give you another rec for this outstanding work.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 9:02 AM CST reply actions  

I'm not a huge gambler...

But several cooments on this thread inspire me to throw the bet that tech will absolutely improve more defensively than offensively. It’s a big nut there, because we return more offensive talent and experience. I am positive that leachs departure will drop offensive production…..but will improve defensive.
A schooner at the O bar has always been the default wager.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Feb 14, 2010 2:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

got ur back

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Feb 14, 2010 6:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Absolutely!

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Feb 16, 2010 5:00 AM CST up reply actions  

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