Double-T Nation Post Season Awards :: Most Valuable Offensive Player
by Seth C on Feb 15, 2010 8:00 AM CST
in Texas Tech Basketball
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This is the first annual "Double-T Nation's Post Season Awards". The categories which the DTN community will be nominating and voting are as follows: Offensive Rookie of the Year; Defensive Rookie of the Year; Most Improved Offensive Player; Most Improved Defensive Player; Special Teams Player of the Year; Offensive Player of the Year; Defensive Player of the Year; and Most Valuable Player.
I'd also ask that you not vote for Leach. I appreciate your loyalty, but I was trying to do something for the players. There are 20 different posts where you can discuss how pissed you are, but you'd be doing me a solid if you could play along.
DTN Post Season Award Winners:
- Offensive Rookie of the Year: WR Alexander Torres
- Defensive Rookie of the Year: S Cody Davis
- Offensive Most Improved Player: WR Lyle Leong
- Defensive Most Improved Player: DE Brandon Sharpe
- Special Teams MVP: KR Eric Stephens
- Defensive MVP: DE Brandon Sharpe
Same as the defense. If I have to tell you about these guys, then you probably shouldn't be voting.
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Baron Batch is an absolute BEAST
Possibly the most talented running back we’ve had in a decade….he has all the assets that woods, Henderson, etc had before him (speed, hands) but adds a dimension of power that we haven’t seen since Bam Morris. I think he’s been underutilized, though, up to this poin , largely due to the pass first nature of the air raid. This is one of the aspects of the Tubs regime that makes me exited…that we may actually start changing our offensive gameplan to match our personnel strengths rather than make our personnel fit into a coache’s philosophy.
by 2001Raider on Feb 15, 2010 8:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Respectfully, I disagree
I don’t like the idea of pounding Batch between the tackles. He’s at his best catching screen passes out of the backfield. He plays very well in space and he’s a strong pass blocker. I think he’s the best open-field runner we’ve had since… Crabtree… but before Crabs, you have to go back to Hanspard to find a player this exciting.
At 200 lbs, comparing him as a power back to Bam Morris is ridiculous. He can break arm tackles (admittedly this has been rare for Tech backs), but he is NOT a power back.
Sorry...hit send early
You stretched my opinons a little. I don’t think Batch is a “power back,” but I do think he is has the most power running abilities that we’ve seen at Tech since Morris.
I don’t think we need to “pound the ball between the tackles,” but rather, give the ball more to the most prolific player on the offense…whether that means catching out of the backfield, screen passes, delayed handoffs, and yes, when the situation calls for it…pound it between the tackles. As much as I loved Leach’s offense, one of the faults it had was an absense of a goal line or short yardage formation. When you have 4th and inches and an offensive line that averages 6’3" 300lbs, why line up in a shot gun? Why not at least have the option bringing the line in tight, getting a push and running your best player between the tackles for one inch?
If we had this option against Houston last
year, we would have won the game.
by 2001Raider on Feb 15, 2010 9:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Definitely an option....
But only if it is used as a single play in a goal line formation….it doesn’t take much homework for our opponent’s D-coordinators to see that EVERY time we dont line up
in a short yardage shot gun, we are going to sneak it. Almost 100% of the time. This ain’t quantum physics…
This year was a good example…the QB sneak was stuffed numerous times because by showing a non- shotgun formation, we might as well spell out QB SNEAK on the score board, because everyone in college football
knows it’s the only play Mike Leach had where the QB lines up directly behind the
center.
by 2001Raider on Feb 15, 2010 10:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually
we probably ran the sweep more times (or atleast faked the sweep and handed it off to the other back) this last year than we ran the sneak.
I don’t have actual stats but to me it seemed we distanced ourselves from the constant only QB sneak from under center mind set.
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Feb 15, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Don't you people be implying that there are improvement opportunities for the Air Raid.
That is not kosher !! Without the Air Raid, as is, we are doomed….doomed I tell you….;-)
Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.
So doomed ...!
"Fearless champions ever be; Stand on heights of victory"
by Let's Go Tech! on Feb 15, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
7-5? Really?
I’m curious to hear….who are the five losses to?
I understand there are a lot of unknowns when bringing in a new coach, etc…but with the players we’re returning and an improved defense, 7-5 would imply that Tubs is taking the wheel of a Cadilac and changing it into a Daewoo. Don’t you think you’re being just a little pessisitic here?
by 2001Raider on Feb 15, 2010 3:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not that hard based on Tech's history vs opponents
Loss at Oklahoma
Loss to Texas
Loss at A&M
Loss to Missouri (at least 3 in a row over Tech)
Loss to Colorado (4 in a row now vs Tech)
We also get two bowl teams in non-conference: SMU and Houston.
It could easily go either way
Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.
No... not pessimistic at all...
He’s a coach who won’t commit to the spread. With a coach who actually knows the spread, we only went 8-4 this year.
News flash: our receivers suck and we just graduated our best linemen on both offense and defense.
You must report for CBS here in Midland......
I get my my news from the Daily Show on Comedy Central and they say that our receivers don’t suck and that our linemen will be way better than expected next year.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
I'm really not trying to be a downer...
It’s just that I hear the same unwarranted optimism from Tech fans every year. The only time in the last decade that we won 10+ games was the year that we had the best receiver in football on our team and a three year starter at qb. And we still managed to lose a blowout to OU that year and got left out of the BCS.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some good players on this team, but with an entirely new defensive scheme and (again) a coach that won’t commit to the passing game… I expect us to lose to UT, OU, A&M, and either Mizzou, CU, or OSU.
Question
How do you know yet that he won’t commit to the passing game? Seems way premature to say that especially when he hires Brown and retains Cumbie. Also, stated too many times that the Air raid is here to stay? Receivers will be much better this season with some new faces and IMO better athletes. Look for Ward and Corker to get early looks and some of the veteran players to be demoted. On defense, it can only get better because it was never that good even last season. If anything our defense will be a whole lot better moving forward.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
He has a track record of not committing to the pass...
He hired Franklin at AU and went on to a 5-7 record. Mark my words. It won’t work.
So what exactly are you predicting won't work?
What specifically won’t work? Other than the disaster of the season at Auburn where he tried something half-assed that essentially got him fired, I’m willing to think that he learned his lesson. So I’ll ask you to be specific what you think is going to happen in the fall, when it’s going to fail, and what you consider “not committing to the pass”?
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Fair enough...
Leach geared our entire system toward the pass. He did so because he knew that spreading the field, engaging every eligible receiver, widening the splits on the OL, all of that was a way to mitigate the fact that we are playing with sub-par recruits against some of the best football teams in the country. Say what you want, Alex Torres, Lyle Leong, Tramain Swindall, and Detron Lewis are not marquis receivers… but they performed well in Leach’s system.
For all the talk about “keeping the Air Raid”, HC TT has also been talking about emphasizing the run and replacing our behemoth interior OLs with smaller run-blocker types. He even hired an OC that ran the ball 40% of the time last year. What I hear from him is less a comprehensive offensive strategy and more an attempt to appease the Raider faithful and HC TT’s own penchant for a ball control run game. That is precisely what got him in trouble during his last year at AU. You simply can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
We simply don’t have personnel that are capable of doing anything but spreading it and sharing touches against UT, OU, and A&M. Sure, Baron Batch averaged 5 ypc this year against 5 and 6 man fronts. If we start running it 40% of the time, he’ll be facing a lot more 7 man fronts… and then we’ll see just how successful we are.
Again… no one will be happier to see me be wrong than myself. But I still say we have a down W-L year followed by a down recruiting year in ’10.
I guess what I don't understand is that Tubs
hired a OC that runs the spread offense, but also runs the ball an average of 10 more attempts a game. I don’t think that will make TT a running team, especially when Troy passed the 40 attempts.
When I went to the Recruiting Review, OC Brown made it clear that the offense was staying the same (even emphasized the wide splits), but wanted to involve the running back a bit more. And that makes sense. The running backs are probably the most explosive group of players on the team. Either one of two things are going to happen: 1) OC Brown and Tubs lied to a large contingent of Texas Tech fans both in Houston and Dallas; or 2)OC Brown and Tubs are telling the truth, they just want to have a more balanced offense.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
At Troy, OC Brown ran it 40% of the time
That doesn’t make Tech a “running” team, you’re right. It does mean that a minimum of 40% of the touches will go to a single position (RB), even more when you count screens, flares, and other passes to the RB.
The reason that our RB’s average so many ypc is that it’s a surprise to the defense when they get the football. It’s alot easier to run it against a nickel or dime package than it is to run against a 4-3 stack. If we start running it 40% of the time against Big 12 opponents, OU, UT, NU, Mizzou, and A&M will play us in their base defense, not in a 5-6 man front. That translates to fewer yards per play and fewer wins.
I could be wrong. Maybe the defense will be awesome. Still I, for one, would rather watch us win 49-42 than 13-6.
I guess I also want to know what you consider to be
not committing to the pass? Not trying to beat a dead horse, I’m just curious.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
It seems as if you are giving UT, OU, and aggie
more of a chance than your own team. Which is fine, that’s your opinion.
I don’t see us losing to anybody in the North. Remember, we can also improve. Mizzou and CU haven’t exactly been stellar the past few years.
If there is one game to be concerned about it’s OU in Norman. I believe they have lost one at home under Stoops, and I think that was to TCU.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
I just don’t see how you can say that our receivers suck. We lost the one lame duck (Brickhands) and have a lot of young talent (Ward, Douglas, Corker, etc.) Please name a better group of receivers in the Big 12.
"Life's a garden, dig it."
by Remington870 on Feb 16, 2010 8:24 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
We always have good receivers. The thing is that our top receivers are pretty evenly talented that not one really stands out over the other. Its better that way because we can spread the ball around. Plus last seasons redshirts are gonna give last years starters some competition.
I predict a way better more experienced receiving group this year.
You've got to be kidding me.....
UT’s case of the drops in the MNC ring a bell?
What about OU all last season?
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
From a production standpoint, especially returning starters
I don’t think there’s a stronger group of receivers in the Big 12 (and that includes Missouri). I’d love to see your comparison of players between these three schools.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Receivers
I would take A&M’s Fuller, Nwachukwu, and Morrow; UT’s Williams, Kirkendoll (who killed us this year), and Chiles; or OU’s Broyles (and any others) over our guys any day.
This is the first year I can remember that we didn’t have a 1,000 yd receiver, or a receiver with 10+ TDs. So, I think the question is… just what the crap makes our receivers so great?
I long for the days of Johnson, Hicks, and Filani. Or Glover, Welker, and Francis. This bunch is decidedly underwhelming… and the fact that Ward will win a starting job next year proves it.
I'll compare them for you at the bottom of the page
it’s getting crowded over here.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
You've failed to compare our receivers with other teams...
I understand wanting to have some of these guys, but they are no more productive than our set of WR’s.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
We've had an injury riddled year with all players
including receivers. Our top 2 productive receivers where out for more than one game each.
Kirkendoll, Dan Buckner, Nwachukwu, and Chiles aren’t that impressive as far as I’m concerned.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
Try 10-2
No way this team is worse off than last years. Probably have better offensive weapons and a defense that will start to make people realize we have one.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I agree..
back foot throws be damned, he’s still better than 98% of the Qb’s playing FBS/Div 1 football.
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Feb 15, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I was really close
to adding him to the list, but no one nominated him last week, so I figured I’d leave him off.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Batch
It didn’t matter who was QB, if Batch was going well the offense was going well. Case Closed. Wreck Em!!!!
"Faster Horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money." Tom T Hall
Torres
With the Qb situation last year, its nice to know that you got at least one guy that you can count on the make a play. Torres doesnt jump out at you like crabs did, but he sure as hell does have his hands though. Torres is gonna blow up big this season.
That's my vote
This kid played lights out in an offense that had no solid QB. I look for him and Eric Ward to be the next best at receiving. Maybe Corker starts early also?
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
You cant
keep a stallion like Batch and his stable mates (Jeffers and Stephens). Like I said in my Post on Vassago’s Fanpost. You gotta use the running game when you have the talent we have at the spot. Whatever % of run plays we call, Batch should get half of them and the other two should divide evenly or let their production decide.
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Feb 15, 2010 9:58 AM CST reply actions
Sticks
I voted for Sticks, but Batch was 1A for me. The only thing that pushed him over Batch was the value he brought when he came in for Potts. There are specific games you can point to that we likely do NOT win without Sticks play (Neb comes to mind).
All that said, Batch was the rock of the offense and the guy you could count on every weekend. Love that guy!
IMWTx
by imisswesttexas on Feb 15, 2010 10:03 AM CST reply actions
Your exact sentiments are mine....
Being at the game in Lincoln, it pushed me to sticks.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Feb 15, 2010 2:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Batch
Without question, when used properly in the game, he performed to the ultimate, without fail. He seems to have a motor in him that never stops, even when hit by a tackler. Without him, I am not certain Tech would have even made it to a bowl game. That is what MVP means.
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
Torres
Batch is a close second on the list. He gives the effort to be number one and had many bright moments and was rarely pulled down in the back field. However, his average YPC fluxuated too much game to game for me to give him MVP.
Torres had less drops (I only consider balls that are catchable as drops) than any other receiver and was good for 10 yards damn near everytime he touched the ball.
Next year, I see Batch exploding and would love to see him hit 100 every game.
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Feb 15, 2010 10:26 AM CST reply actions
Watch me...
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Feb 15, 2010 2:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I voted Batch.
He did everything that was asked of him…sometimes more…had a couple of fumbles that hurt, but came back and played strong after, didn’t let it get in his way.
With 3 qb’s trying to stay on the field…one of which was the 2nd qb but who seemed amazingly effective, but remained 2nd…and the first not playing really good football, it is hard to find anyone at that position as MVP for the season…athought the qb spot remains the most critical to execution of the offense.
I liked Lonnie Edwards simply because he supplied what was needed to settle the offensive line…after that happened the offense played much better overall.
Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.
It's Batch
Not only because he is prolific as a runner (especially in the Air Raid offense), but also for his toughness and the punishing way he runs. He ALWAYS finishes each run, usually with the tacklers holding on to his legs or feet, at the end of each run.
For many, many years, I was frustrated by those Aggie, UT and Arkansas running backs who always seemed to add at least two or three yards to each run as they were being tackled. Batch uses all of his 200 lbs to get the most out of each run.
Of course, we all would love to see a great “break loose” back, but I think Batch’s rugged, hard-nose runs are a really good fit with the all-out passing attack.
Batch also has shown leadership and maturity on quite a few occasions and I perceive he is well-respected by his teammates.
"Fearless champions ever be; Stand on heights of victory"
I voted Batch.
He was terrific. Consistent, powerful, punishing. All the nice things you can say about a RB.
Sheffield was a shot in the arm at just the right times, but Batch brought it all year long.
I voted Sticks with Batch a close 2nd.
But, like stated above, the O-Line is getting no love this year.
Indecisive, I don’t know who I want to win.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
No Offensive MVP
I don’t have an MVP for last year because no one stood head and shoulders above the other players. Football as a team game never was so well defined as for Tech in 2009.
Potts and Sheffield both had big games. Both got hurt in part due to inconsistency on the offensive line. Batch had big games but disappeared from some games and had some costly fumbles. Torres and Lewis had big games and plays but lacked consistently good performances.
2009 was very close to being an exceptional year, but the team just missed being 12-1. Only the A&M stinker wasn’t close to a win. For laughs, you should read the USA Today round-up for Tech where Wall is given credit for knocking OSU’s QB out, causing a fumble that allowed Tech to hold onto the victory. That’s how close TECH seemed to be in winning that game. The KSU and Nebraska games were alltime quality victories as well. It will be a challenge for the coaching staff and team to better their record this year because 2009 is EXample A of how hard it really is to win the Big 12. Tech’s day will come, and I believe it will be soon.
STICKS ?????????????????????????????????
How in the world could anyone vote for Sticks as the MVP. Your really going to vote for a guy that couldnt even earn the starting job. He was truly the MVP he would have been selected to start the Alamo Bowl. Batch is the main reason our offense worked this fall. Batch is the man. Sticks hahahahahaha
Why I voted Sticks
Various different reasons, but suffice to say it was my opinion.
If you look at the season, we were 2-2 and on our way to losing the New Mexico game quickly until Sheffield came in and turned it around. Then he goes for 7 TD’s against K-State and leads the offense to an incredible road win against Nebraska.
Go look at his box score against Nebraska and consider that was a road game! Compare that to what McCoy and the UT offense was able to do against the blackshirts in Dallas as huge favorites. It was really remarkable.
My vote isn’t to take anything away from Batch’s outstanding year. I just feel the season could have been terribly different without the 3 back to back wins in the middle of the year.
IMWTx
by imisswesttexas on Feb 16, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sticks sparked the team.
Sticks gave us the WINS by checking down to the RUN which involved Batch.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
Don't forget that Potts checked down to the run
almost the entire 2nd half against Kansas and against Oklahoma. Not saying Potts didn’t make mistakes, but both QB’s checked down to the run, sans the OSU game (http://cfbstats.com/2009/team/700/rushing/offense/gamelog.html) for the most part.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
For Battledome - not busting your balls, just shedding light.....
Dan Buckner – 45 rec 442 yards 4 TD
John Chiles – 34 rec 319 yards 3 TD
James Kirkendoll – 48 rec 461 yards 6 TD
Malcolm Williams – 39 rec 550 yards 2 TD
Jeff Fuller – 41 rec 568 yards 7 TD
Uzoma Nwachukwa – 40 rec 708 yards 6 TD
Howard Morrow – 43 rec 449 yards 4 TD
Detron Lewis – 65 rec 844 yards 6 TD
Lyle Leong – 45 rec 571 yards 9 TD
Tramain Swindall – 55 rec 694 yards 5 TD
Alex Torres – 67 rec 806 yards 6 TD
Seriously man, we have the best receivers aside from Shipley.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
Apples to Oranges, KWash
I think it’s important to note a couple of things… one, the receivers listed for UT have stats that were held back by the presence of Shipley. All of these receivers will improve their stock next year when there are more balls to go around. Tech’s receivers will see a drop in production because there will be fewer pass attempts (unless we’re playing from behind 50% of the time, which I think we will be). Shipley caught 116 balls for 1400 yds. If those touches get distributed evenly among the four receivers listed here next year, then their stats start to look even better than Tech’s crew… even when you account for the looks that Fast Eddie got.
Two… OU’s receivers are not listed. Broyles, who will return next year, put up VERY impressive numbers when you consider that neither Bradford nor Jones were able to complete 60% of their passes. Their stats will improve next year, too.
Three… why are we even talking about stats? You can’t determine who has the better receivers by comparing their stats when the offenses they run are as different as A&M’s, UT’s, OU’s, and ours. All of these schools put imposing receivers on the field who are bigger, stronger, and faster than ours. If they don’t put up the numbers we do, that’s not proof that they couldn’t do so… given the opportunities afforded our guys by the Air Raid.
Four… if I were to rank Tech’s all-time receivers I’d say it’s: Crabtree, Filani, Welker, RB Taurean Henderson, R. Johnson, Francis, Glover, Amendola, and only then D. Lewis. How can you say that this group is anywhere near as good as our previous units? Unless of course you think A. James is as good as his dad thinks he is! :)
So, yes, we have the fourth best group of receivers in the B12 South and next year is going to be a rude awakening.
Why so gloomy?
Battle Dome man is this a gloomy outlook- ie 4 or 5 losses in 2010? The comparison of offense is a valid point. I think the rub is this. Tubbs and OC Brown have to keep an up tempo to maximize the number of plays run by the Tech offense. I am already on record as saying look for more punts and less plays per game in 2010. Predicated on the "more Balance" statements by the head coach. Translation equals: more balance means lining up and running it – by definition running is almost certainly going to lessen the total opportunities to touch the ball offensively. If you don’t keep up a no huddle attack. Now some of the success of the Air raid is generated by just flat wearing people out. The real success Leach got was getting very accurate throws to very reliable receivers. The RB touches was then a byproduct- a very productive byproduct – forcing the def coordinator to keep smaller def backs on the field based on the pass slicing them up. This in turn opened up the little slashing runs by the Tech RBs. Battledomes point of Techs Offense lining up against OU, ut even an Ole Miss with 7 or 8 guys in the box is valid. In that trying to do so has not to date been much of a success for a Leach coached team. Doesn’t mean a Tubs/Brown coached team can’t get good at running right at an opponent. It’s just that that strategy or scheme is bound to have 2nd and 3rd order effects. Less time available for one and if you aren’t winning more than n 50 % of these rushing offense verso rush defense then you run the risk of having to throw to get the first down. I think our "passing" practice system is what made the Air Raid so precise .The second tier receivers could out play at least one def back on every play. So our good second and 3rd order effect was lots of first downs which in turn led to lots of red zone opportunities. I am hopeful Tubs will keep the advantage generated by the successful short passing game.
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Feb 17, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting arguments being presented.
I have to think about one in which a reciver is able to get open, so he is getting ths passes, and that loosing him next season helps the remainder get open next season…don’t they get passes if they are open ?
I am also working on the one in which the qb stats are less than 60%, not really a bad number, but the receivers who did not catch the ball at one school are better than those at another that do.
Finally there is one discussion about the best groups of recievers, as a group, vs comparisons with individual recievers from other programs….not their recievers as a group…that was a little further up.
Interesting, none the less…
Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.
I'm not sure how this is apples to oranges.
Because Shipley is leaving Texas doesn’t mean that UT’s receivers are better than ours. Stats don’t lie. We are a pass oriented team, but the numbers don’t lie as far as production goes…..
Agree to disagree.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
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