TTU take next step??... A long response to TTUMAR...
by txt3ch6uy on Feb 4, 2010 7:51 PM CST
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PrintThe only reason I decided to post this through the forum, was because the response is pretty lengthy and I understand most do not wish to read a long reply. TTUMAR had asked if Texas Tech was to take the next step, then brought up some teams that had coaching changes since the '98 season. I only see one University that had somewhat the same experience that had happened in Lubbock...
Ohio St.
John Cooper (1988-2000)- Only a 3-8 bowl record, a 2-10-1 record against Arch-rival Michigan, and a bowl-less 6-6 '99 season (along with pervasive academic and problimatic discipline issues) led to his firing after the 2000 season (even after an 8-3 regular season record).
Jim Tressel (2001-Present)- Has only had two less than 10 win seasons; 9 straight bowl games, with 7 being BCS Bowls (3 NC Bowls).
Cooper had a difficult time in beating Michigan within those seasons, however he did produce tremendously for the Buckeyes... went to 10 straight Bowl Games ('89-'98), and another in 2000, AVERAGED 10+ wins from '93-'98, from '91-'98 won no less than 8 games, and only produced one losing season (his first). Cooper won 72% of his games while with OSU, producing a 111-43-4 record, 3 conferences titles, and only one of two coaches to reach over 100 games won (W.W. Hayes had a 205-61-10 record from '51-'78). So after reading this brief description, one could understand why I feel that this University had somewhat a similiar experience Red Raider Nation had felt.
As for the others... you will see below that either Coaches were not producing as the University expected them too, or they agreed to step down for another coaching job or retired.
Alabama
Mike Dubose (1997-2000) - from a 10-3 '99 Season (BCS game/Orange Bowl) to a 3-8 season the following year and NCAA violations caused his firing.
Dennis Fanchione (2001-2002) - Resigned after only Two Seasons with Alabama to become the new coach at College Station.
Mike Shula (2003-2006) - went from a 10-2 '05 season to a 6-6 season the following year, where he was replaced by Interim HC Joe Kines in the Bowl Game.
Nick Saban- Current Coach (2007-Present)
Florida
Steve Spurrier (1990-2001) - Resigned after 12 seasons with the Gators after the '01 season
Ron Zook (2002-2004) - Was an "underachiever" accordingly to most Gator fans considering two straight 8-5 seasons and final season at 7-4 (replaced by Interim HC Charlie Strong)
Urban Meyer- Current Coach (2005-Present)
Tennessee
Phillip Fulmer (1992-2008) - Agreed to step down as HC after 13 seasons after the '08 season; saw two below .500 seasons (second being his final season) in final 4 years; No less than 8 wins before the 2005 season.
Lane Kiffin- Served 1 season as HC (2009) then became the USC HC after the season was over.
Derek Dooley- Present Coach
LSU
Gerry DiNardo (1995-1999) - After 3 straight successful seasons, final 2 seasons DiNardo experienced a 4-7 '98 season and a 2-8 '99 season (replaced by Interim HC Hal Hunter in final game of season)
Nick Saban (2000-2004)- Had a successful tenure, but left LSU to coach the Miami Dolphins.
Les Miles- Current Coach (2005-Present)
Florida St.
Bobby Bowden (1976-2009) - Retired after 34 years of Coaching; Final years saw a decrease in production, yet he still continued to send the Noles to post season.
Jimbo Fisher- Present HC
Miami
Butch Davis (1995-2000)- Brought the Canes back from violations of the NCAA rules from predecessor, Dennis Erickson; only one season under .500, and brought Canes to an 11-1 record in his final season; Stepped down as HC to take the Head Coaching job for the Clevelland Browns.
Larry Coker (2001-2006) - Three straight 11+ win seasons, followed by two 9 win seasons; final season saw a 7-6 record.. was fired after the '06 season
Randy Shannon (2007-Present)- Former DC under Coker and Present HC
Texas
John Mackovic (1992-1997)- First two seasons were mediocre, then saw an 8 win and 10 win season followed by another 8 win season; In the final season, he finished with a 4-7 record. Mack Brown was hired from UNC
Mack Brown- 1998-Present; One of the most successful coaches in program's history
Oklahoma
John Blake (1996-1998)- Had three straight below .500 seasons. Bob Stoops was hired after the '98 season.
Bob Stoops- 1999-Present; One of the most successful coaches in program's history.
USC
Pete Carroll (2001-2009)- Won 84% of the games competed in; Stepped down from USC to coach the Seattle Seahawks
Lane Kiffin- Present HC
You see... this is why most fans are upset with the way the University handled the whole ordeal. Coach Leach was not fired due to poor performance or because of his lack of motivation. He did not step down for a coaching job that was far superior than that of being head pirate for the Red Raiders. Coach Leach was the most winningness coach in program history, led the Red Raiders to 10 straight bowl games, had an AVERAGE of 9 wins in his final 6 seasons in Lubbock, and had no less than 8 wins in all but two of his years as Head Coach at Texas Tech. He had a 5-4 record in Bowl games (Red Raiders won this final bowl game, so I am saying 6-4 in 10 years for Coach Leach), brought home a Championship from a 15 year championless drought, and turned this program around from his predecessor, Spike D(y)kes... and the University canned him for some nonsense.
I still bleed red and black, but when something like this happens to a person that was able to achieve all this great success, it boils my blood. I do wish HC TT the best for as long as he is a Red Raider, but I give credit to Coach Leach if this team happens to win a Conference Championship (or multiple) within the next 2-3 years, because Coach Leach and his staff put this team of young men together. THEY were the one's that were going to put the face of this program on a National Scene because of all the success that was starting to be shown in West Texas. Maybe Coach Tubbs will be able to do what Coach Tress did in Ohio St. after Cooper... turn that program from an already successful program into a competitive National Championship Program. I am still skeptical until I see sometype of success within the next few years, but will continue to show my Red Raider Pride.
WRECK EM TECH!!!!!!!
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disagree
Or I didn’t get the point of the post either.
by Damien Franco on Feb 5, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions
Glad your on board, alot of insight into those other programs.
My point is simple. Every successful program in D-1 has gone through multiple coaching changes. More importantly, our ability to passionately support our current team should have nothing to do with the reason for the coaching change.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I understand...
all that, but the thing is this… coaching changes happen on most occasions due to that COACH not producing the way the University expects them too. A coaching change occurs if that COACH decides to coach else where. That is exactly what happened to these Programs. It takes time for fans and supporters to move on after something like this in Lubbock happens to a very successful Coach.
BTW… I did not miss the WHOLE point
I'm surprised, and disappointed.....but you appearently did miss the point.
You still want to preach to the choir, meanwhile we still have a service to do, and souls to save.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
You tell me...
How did I miss the WHOLE point. If you see at the beginning of this post….
TTUMAR had asked if Texas Tech was to take the next step, then brought up some teams that had coaching changes since the ’98 season.
I was simply stating that ALL but one of the teams that you had brought up, were in different situations than that of the Red Raiders. You said in your post…
One large common denominator among all of these schools is that through out it all, the fans endured, remained strong, and even grew their base of influence.
Those fans for UF, UT, OU, Bama (Shula and Dubose), and THE U (Coker) WANTED change… the coaches before were NOT producing. Each one of those Universities had at least one NC before the ’98 season… they had a taste of success before encountering a COACH that did not produce, that did not win. An abrupt change in the HC was what was needed for THOSE fans…. NOT for Red Raider Nation.
Yes, I still believe that the fans and supporters will continue to support the Red Raiders, just like the fans and supporters did in the 70’s when Coach Carlen left to South Carolina and Coach Sloan took a higher paying job at Ole Miss. Both men DECIDED to leave… they were not forced to depart, they chose too. Both were two of the most successful coaches in team history and the CHOSE to depart. The fans then, were probably upset about the whole situation… but they continued to support their team, just as I believe these fans and supporters will continue to support the future teams to come in the near future.
I think we did answer this earlier......See above "glad your onboard etc..."
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Well...
Takes time for fans and supporters to move on after ANY COACH has gone through sometype of turmoil through ANY organization. Fans and supporters are ready to move to the next coach, especially if the previous coach goes 2-8, 4-7, or does not have a winning record in any of his time with that university. Fans and supporters are ready to move on when that Coach decides to take a coaching job elsewhere that is more intriguing than the one they were at, or any other coaching job at all, away from the University they were coaching at.
You won't find the words "move-on" in my posts....
Be mad, hate the admin, fire bomb their offices, I’m good for an alibi. But in the meantime, see that you still have the best team in our history being built right in front of you, and what appears to be a good coaching staff in their own right. You can harbor ill will about what happened, AND scream for the 2011 team like you have never screamed for anything before, all at the same time.
Wreck’em
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Why not root for the 2010 team? I think we’ve got plenty of great pieces to make a run this fall if we keep our offensive schemes somewhat similar and continue on our already-improving defense. You can wait till 2011, but I"m on board in 2010!
LOL, that was a typo.....I meant 2010.....Good get.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Texas, OU, O$U, and A&M aren't taking the year off....
so we can “take our time”.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Even though Leach produced on the field and in the classroom, my guess is that he didn’t produce enough where his bosses wanted him to produce.
$$$$$$ Fundraising $$$$$$$
Collegiate head coaches have to wear the company hat, put on the school colors and go raise big money for the school. Leach was certainly his own man and wasn’t going to let anyone tell him what to do. It’s one of his greatest assets but also, I believe, his achilles heel.
thoughts?
I’ve been saying something like this for years about Leach. Awesome offensive coordinator, decent head coach, but really bad at the off-field work that goes with the job. Check that: it wasn’t that he was bad at it, it was that he refused to do it. It didn’t help that he seemed to have some interpersonal relationship issues with the money guys and the suits.
by Tech92 on Feb 4, 2010 9:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
well look who it is.....nice of you to join us.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Leach
May not be the type fundraiser you or the administration wanted, but he raised funds for the university. Of the money that has been donated to Tech since 2000, just how much do you think was a direct result of the product Leach put on the field and the national exposure that product got? There are more ways than squeezing some money-person’s hand, playing golf or “hangin”. Leach did more to bring money to Tech than any coach ever and the administration, as well as some on this blog, simply did not like his personna. I am sure there were a lot of boosters that did not like Bowden, many definitely don’t like M. Brown and Stoops surely rankles a few people. When you have a coach that wins, is taking the program even higher, you do not fire him. Despite his “shortcomings” you back him and encourage him to greater things. Why? Because he brings in the money. Isn’t that what “fund-raising” is all about? Now, Let us all hope that Tuberville can equal Leach in the “fund-raising” end of the game. I am sure he WILL be pressing some palms and “hangin’”, doing so totally different than Leach. But will he get the contributors to the program to increase their donations, as did Leach? That is the question. Whether you like Leach or not, he was good for Tech. It is Tommy’s turn now.
TTpilk
Fundraising
Texas Monthly, September 2009: emphasis mine
Under Leach, attendance soared to record levels. Fund-raising rose 180 percent. Money for other sports, which comes mostly from football revenue, increased dramatically. The stadium was massively renovated in 2003, an another major upgrade will be completed next year. All the suites have already been sold. The sports budget, which was $9.4 million just six years before his arrival, now stands at more than $50 million.
But hey, he didn’t do a lot of recruiting round-ups where Gerald could charge $7.50 a beer.
"This year's team could beat last year's team's ass."
-Mike Leach
by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 5, 2010 7:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ive got no insight into what type of fundraiser Leach was.....
But your info would seem to indicate he was doing just fine. I would speculate it bugged people, not me, but people, that he didn’t do it their way. My boss once paid a bunch of money to get to play golf with Leach in Amarillo. According to him Leach showed up half way through in jean shorts and no clubs. I thought it was funny, but the boosters didn’t appreciate it.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Didn't do Bowl pressers....
Remember Leach wouldn’t do the Bowl pressers on Sunday when the bowl was selected because he was on a plane to somewhere for a banquet! Then remember the outrageous black/red suit he wore to pick up one of his awards? I love Leach and I wish he was still our HC but….his greatest strength in national pub maybe his weakness in Admin. terms and of course “Sweet Baby james” jumped in the brawl and got Leach fired! The South Plains Drifter will be fine and we will continue to win. Will he get us to the next level? I don’t know but I do know that a very defense really helps and I think SPD is on the way to have a very good one! Wreck’em Tech
Here's one that will get me flamed....
Think about it…
(think voice of John Madden after half a turkey….)
Here’s a guy who doesn’t want to fit in…he likes to do things his own way….
Here’s a guy that feels like he doesn’t have to do what everybody else in his position does…because he is different….
Here’s a guy that thinks because he learned from someone who’s " been there done that" that the rules don’t apply to him…
Here’s a guy that when he gets caught doing something wrong either calls his daddy or his lawyer…
Don’t get me wrong folks….I loved COACH LEACH!!! Just not to fond of Mike Leach at the end of this….thought alot about this and I have trouble finding alot of differences in their adolescent ways. Coach Leach did a tremendous amount for this university’s football program. No Doubt. But when it came to doing what he was supposed to do OFF the field he showed up in street clothes, wearing sunglasses and an IPOD.
THAT is the reason AJ stayed. THAT is the reason they came to blows. They were TOO much alike. And Leach lost the chest bump contest with CJ in front of the BOR and the goober admin.
I will always love and respect Leach for his brilliant “football” mind. But when you take a job, you gotta do the job….ALL of the job.
You might want to remember that AJ!
Could you be more specific?
I’m having a hard time ccoming up with examples of his inability to do his job “off the field.” I’m sure once they are listed I’ll be able to understand why a player could lie about his treatment, get his dad to call the BoR, and get a coach fired before an investigation was finsihed 1 day before he was due $800k.
The world is full of mediocrities who can play by the rules & make the dullards around them more comfortable
The vast majority of those men in gray flannel suits have never done a single remarkable thing in their lives and never will. Leach did exactly what he felt his job was: win football games against teams with better players. Boosters unhappy with not having their asses kissed enough by the coach are somebody else’s problem. Good for him.
Here’s the rub on conformity: If you play by the same rules as all the other teams you compete with, the deciding factor on who wins and who loses will be the raw talent on the field. And by that measure, Tech finishes 5th in the Big 12 South every year.
Please stop ending every controversial comment with 'Just saying'. Drives me batty. Thank you.
We got it.....
Leach rocked, and we are doomed to fail without him. Check. Get Tubs on the phone…..no need to play the games, 5th in South is where we landed for 2010.
Ofcourse I jest mbrown. Although I think Spike Dykes may have something to say about your notion that Leach was the pioneer of doing more with less. I have lunch every Thur. with a former Dykes asst. coach. They were doing the exact same thing in their day. leach was able to build on that, and Leach acknowledged as much when he broke Spike’s record. Given that trend, maybe there is hope someone can build on what Leach did?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Spike did pretty good with what he had
and the stakes increased when the admin hired Mike Leach, gave him much more financial support, and set the vision and goals that resulted in where we are today.
Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.
What a Debbie Downer
God what a bitching panty hugging debbie downer post. Yeech!
Oh wait.....we can be silly, funny, and vulgar as long is we are being pessimistic.
I got it now.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I kinda thought "bitching panty hugging debbie downer" crossed the line too,
regardless of the side your taking here.
by raider realist on Feb 5, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Could be.....but the bigger issue is why....
you think there are sides to this mess. This is a Tech sports page. if you post here regularly you are a supporter of Tech sports and love to discuss it. What side does that put us on?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Why....
because he didn’t wake up and kiss his picture of TT first thing in the morning? DId he not have his pom pons shaking to the right cadence? I think TT was the absolute (hands down) best hire for us….but if you think being skeptical about the transition and that we will just not miss a beat…..IDK.
I hope to have that affinity and trust in T2 soon, but I have to have the slightest bit of histroy to base this on at my beloved school. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Feb 6, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
October 1, 2010 will be the day that I declare my intentions on tt
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
I kinda thought you were putting Damien on the side of those who were pesssimistic as opposed to your side who are not. I also think your getting a little touch about the whole thing.
I'm touchy.....but Damien's call-out of Jef's class just good-hearted fun?
Listen, if there is anyone in these “debate” that can be accused of taking this whole thing too seriously, or being “touchy”….In the end posted a upbeat post, singling out no one by name, and validating the feelings of all comers to the issue.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
that made no sense....where did the rest of my comment go LOL, sorry RR.
LOL, I forgot my whole point, I’ll put a bow on it by saying no ill will here, no touchiness, just keeping others honest.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Not good hearted fun.
I thought it was a pointless and classless comment that added no depth to the conversation.
I could be wrong. I’ve only had 5 cups of coffee so far so I’m way below par for the course.
by Damien Franco on Feb 5, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
What is "panty hugging"?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
If I knew what it was....
I think I would have more insight into whether it was offensive.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I personally enjoy
huggin panties
"This year's team could beat last year's team's ass."
-Mike Leach
by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 5, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Weird....I have mainly just enjoyed peeling them.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I would rather hug them first
showing my appreciation for them and what not. Then proceed to tear and or peel them off. But, it’s my understanding from friends that having to “peel” said panties off might result in unwanted medical bills and Doctor visits. Along with shame and the inability to score more “panties”.
Wreck Em and the Panties.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
Haha!
Do not hug panties if they are attatched to a clothing rack or a manican. I have no idea how to spell that last word.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
Yes.
One has to be particular about the location of said panties.
"Well, outside of Lubbock, expectations aren't very high. But it's okay, we play in Lubbock a lot this season"
-Mike Leach
by San Antonio Red Raider on Feb 5, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
SARR peel panties
like bull.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
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