Leach being Leach?
by Remington870 on Mar 16, 2010 11:58 AM CDT
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At the risk of beating a dead horse on its way to the glue factory I would like to explore a topic that surfaced following the release of Leach's locker room speeches. Yes, this is about Leach so feel free to select the "Home" link at the top of the page if you want to read something else. My question is simple...did Mike Leach "change" during his tenure at Tech? First we need to define change. I am not referring to change like that nerdy chick in the movies who we could all tell had potential and then she starts wearing different clothes and then everyone wants to take her to the prom or sockhop depending on the film's setting. Basically, is the Leach that we saw in those clips the same basic guy who left Norman to come to Lubbock because he didn't want to be Stoops' babysitter? (yeah i know that's an obscure reference) We know that he has always been quirky:
http://www.kentucky.com/2008/11/12/588728/mike-leachs-offbeat-personality.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04coach.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=3385098
But was there a difference in Leach's approach this year? Was he soured by the contract negotiations following such a successful season? Was he lashing out due to something beneath the surface? Did the players reject his style of leadership? If so, what was the breaking point? Or maybe it all came to the surface because we weren't winning like in 2008. Yeah, I know it's all speculative but we said many times throughout the season that things just seemed different in the locker room and on the field this year. Hearing the passion in his voice during the Insight Bowl speech was truly moving but seeing his reaction to the Baylor game made me feel like I was watching a different person.
I don't know if it's good, bad, or indifferent but Leach distinguished himself from most coaches in that people knew about him APART from Texas Tech. You can't discuss Stoops or Brown or Carroll apart from their respective schools, right? It seemed to me that he made himself bigger than the program at times which you can't really blame him for but I am sure it soured the three stooges. Anyways, I have been thinking about this topic for a few days and was wondering what other people thought. Thanks for your time and input.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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Yes he changed
And yes it was a result of the continual strife and rebuttal by the AD, specifically, the administration on a broader scale. Why? Because he was different. You said “It seemed to me that he made himself bigger than the program at times”. It really was not his doing there, as the media in particular found his uniqueness too be a goldmine when writing about Tech, including more “Leachisms” than probably necessary, just to sell a story. Leach did not go looking for this exposure, it just found him and exploited it for its own reasons. Also, Leach was very passionate about winning. If the players (some of them at least) had been as passionate, maybe he would still be at Tech. Tuberville has the same, or most of them, anyway, players back. It will be interesting to see if he can get them to be as passionate about winning as he, as well as Mike Leach, are.
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
Growing into the job
Leach wasn’t showboating for the 2010 season. And though I have mentioned it a couple of times I think the intellectual honesty piece of any leader comes into play. Leach didn’t have problem raising up new coaches, he didn’t have problem looking at what was not working well and fixing it, i.e. special teams, the kicking game, the place kicker etc..
He fired a Def Coordinator. That was hard. So all this speculation on losing the team I can’t really fathom where its coming from – he stopped players from talking to the media years ago. He suspended out of control players, he kicked guys off the team for breaking the rules. On any team there are Prima Dona’s, old mules, and race horses. They all have to be balanced to ensure the objective is met. I think all coaches grow as they come to grips with what they can control, train, rehearse etc.
From a future perspective I hope Coach Tuberville has absorbed his lesson from his last disastrous brush with a spread offense. He’s had a year off from Coaching – he knows he doesn’t know crap about throwing the ball 60 times a game and he hired a guy who does. To us uniformed folks it would appear he got it. He’s going to employ the tools in the tool kit. An adequate 2 x deep wide receiver rotation and a choice of 6 x QB’s who can sling the ball 10- 20 yards down field versus Cover 2. He can’t really change the character of the team too much he’s got what he’s got. We are going to see 40 plus passes a game 28 runs and one trick play. That coupled with an improving defense.
Mike Leach would have field his next best defense this year. Who can doubt Ruff would have replaced R. Henley, B. Sharpe, D. Howard, V. Hunter and R. Jones in the rotation and so it goes. So yeah I guess Leach grew in the job. He was like it or not the poster child for the program.
"do routine things routinely"
It's all hindsight philosophy
If I had asked any of you on Dec. 26th whether Mike Leach had coached his last game at Texas Tech you would have laughed at me. It wasn’t the best season just concluded but it was pretty good. Three of 4 losses by 10, 7 and 1 point, all winnable games. Only 1 real screw-up, against the Aggies of all people (why din’t players get the memo that A&M is Tech’s most hated rival? Of all games to take a nap, why that one? Fat little girlfriends I suppose). Anyway, I don’t think he lost his team. You just got to hear the rats once the ship started sinking. Most years those weasels graduate or transfer out. It takes all kinds to field a team.
John Hancock
I have discussed this topic a few times...
and your right, in the end we are just speculating based on little info. But I simply don’t buy into the “he didn’t lose this team” without a shread of evidence to back that claim up. On the other hand, all of the information we do have suggest their was a large locker room issue last season. Whether it’s twitter gate, Carter’s suspensions, Fat Little Girlfriend gate, or the simple fact that a single member of the 2009 football team publicly stood up for Leach, before or after his firing. In fact a few came out against him, and by all accounts the entire team moved on without skipping a beat, and the only reports we have suggest they are enjoying the new staff emensly. These are the reports we have, and none of them support the arguement that Leach was the same coach in 2009. Until someone can proved just as credible info to the contrary, the only explaination that makes sense to me is that the coach we came to know and love for a decade was eventually cripled by a poisoness working enviroment among possible unknown influences, and his ability to manage his team reflected that.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
and now the onslaught....
of all of Mike Leach is the best coach ever, can do nothing wrong, and how dare I blaspheme in the house of the pirate.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
"Fuck playing it close, we lost the god damn game to the University of Texas and we could've won the mother fucker."
one passionate sombitch.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
We could have won that game too
If only our proudest moment han’t been showing what a pounding our new QB could endure. What a thing to brag about.
John Hancock
No onslaught from me
I actually had reached the same conclusion. Kinda scary agreeing with a damn whipper snapper.
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
I refuse to buy into this notion
that “unicorn’s don’t exist” until I am presented some evidence that they do not, in fact, exist.
Here is some evidence that he did not lose the team:
8-4. If our definition of lost teams includes 8-4 passing dependent teams that start three quarterbacks over the course of a single season, then there’s reason to question whether our definition is meaningful. There was exactly one game last year that we weren’t in, and that was A&M. The team wasn’t “lost” against Oklahoma, K. State, Kansas, or Nebraska.
If you really think an 8-4 team with those kinds of notches on its bedpost are “crippled” by a poisonous work environment, then you must have really thought Coach Leach lost the team in, say, 2000 when we were 7-6. Brandon Carter was not the first player suspended in the last 10 years. Fat little girlfriends was not the first time Mike Leach called out the players over the past 10 years. Don’t mistake players’ dislike for a coach as a coach having “lost” the team; Bear Bryant didn’t lose teams, he won games. Many of his players hated him.
The team last year was MANAGED. Even when M. Williams and Carter were complaining about Leach, you had Jamar Wall coming in and telling them to shut the fuck up, publicly. If 2009 is what we think a “lost team” looks like, we should brace ourselves.
by Skin Patrol on Mar 19, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A+1 attaboy
been trying to figre out how to say this all along.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Thanks for the Jamar Wall reminder...
love the guy even more now.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 19, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
We should have seen the trouble signs in 2001
when Shaud Williams transferred to Alabama because he didn’t like Leach. Of course, our lil’ Ricky Williams went on to put up great numbers for us, but no matter. We should have seen the signs and fired the sumbitch back then. It would have kept us from having to endure year after year of Leach losing his team.
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 21, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Coming in crystal clear...
Mike had everything under control.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
What we are trying to say is that there is more to Leach's body of work than 2008 and 2009
I’ve been reading your comments for months and you seem to focus on, and draw your conclusions from, Leach’s performance in 2008 and 2009 only. His entire body of work as a HC (both good and bad) goes back to 2000. He suspended players, had players leave the team, and cut players every year. He had times where there didn’t seem to be much harmony in the locker room. But he also had players that did great things and seasons to be proud of. Brandon Carter didn’t have much nice to say about him in 2009, but so what? Go back and look through old newspaper articles. Every year he had players commenting about how different he was or that he did things they didn’t necessarily like. We had a good time with the YouTube video and his F bombs, but I heard the same thing in 2000, 2001, and 2002 when he would call a time out and gather the team around. Back then, season tickets didn’t cost $20 grand so I was lucky enough to have 50 yd. line seats about 3 rows up. He ripped into them a few times a game and made the YouTube video look like Mr. Rogers.
So, to the extent that one man can control 85 twenty yr old athletes with only a few real team leaders (Jamar Wall might be it), I think he did have things under control.
He made some mistakes during his 10 years at Tech. But, I will always give him the benefit of the doubt based on his overall body of work.
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 22, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you need to go back an review my comments...
I don’t know how much more clearly I can state that taken as a whole, I loved coach Leach as a coach. Furthermore, it was his entire record that I was looking at when i came to the conclusion that 2009 was an anomally when compared to the rest of the decade. Just go back and review the posts from last fall. 2009 was widely considered one of, if not the starngest years in the Leach era. I was simply being consistant with that thinking, and after the firing, there seem to be some indications as to why we were all so perplexed. I have nothing but respect for you and your viewpoint, even if we disagree, however if you continue to frame my comments in a light that is frankly inaccurate, it makes it difficult to have a healthy debate. Stated over and over again when I was happy with Leach and I have not been afraid to be critical of him on a case by case basis. I don’t know how you can frame that kind of balanced commentary as one-sided.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
furthermore....
as I scroll back up to remind myself what the initial fanpost was about, the author is clearly asking for comments and speculation about the 2008-2009 season. So if you felt my comments were too narrowly focused on last season, that may have something to do with it.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
And...
quit being so serious and grumpy. None of us are related to Mike, nor depend on him for a paycheck. I thought he was off his game last year and I think there is reasonable info to back that up. You disagree, I’m cool with that and if you would like to have a drink-off to settle the dispute I can think of no place better that post Spring game bar night to bring the pain.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I'm grumpy because Kansas blew up my bracket
I won big last year in a huge bracket and wanted to win again this year. But noooo, Kansas thinks they are too good to play Northern Effin Iowa. Poo Poo, it’s Northern Iowa. Well Eff you Kansas. And Eff Danny Manning. And Wilt Chamberlain. And Eff Gail Sayers. And KC Masterpiece barbeque sauce. And George Brett. And chalk.
"I`m going to set up a foundation for the world. I`m going to take the money and start building cities all over the world. I`m a comet. My man told me I`m a comet. I said, `I’m a comet?'" -Stephon Marbury
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 22, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
helloooooooooooooooooooooooo Zoloft
and anyone that picked Kansas to loose to NI was just throwing darts at the board with a blindfold.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 22, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
And Bob Effin Dole
and Dorothy. And Effin Toto.
"I`m going to set up a foundation for the world. I`m going to take the money and start building cities all over the world. I`m a comet. My man told me I`m a comet. I said, `I’m a comet?'" -Stephon Marbury
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 22, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
And Dust in the Effin Wind
And Carry On My Wayward Effin Son
"I`m going to set up a foundation for the world. I`m going to take the money and start building cities all over the world. I`m a comet. My man told me I`m a comet. I said, `I’m a comet?'" -Stephon Marbury
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 22, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems as if there is a lot of comparison between two events
the half time talk to pick a team up that had not played well but was capable, and the end of season talk following a disappointing win and a season with lots of controversy.
I cannot see where either of those can be definitive of a man ‘changing.’ As stated in some of the other blogs, ML had no problem throughout his time at TTU dropping f bombs to catch the attention of players….his lips could be read easily.
I think the difference in the two is no more complicated than in one case he was PO’ed and in another he was not.
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
I agree....
I don’t know if the videos prove anything. I think other information last year provided more insight. Bottom line, Mike was screwed and is going to get paid. The question you have to ask yourself is did Mike do anything to bring about his own demise. In all my years, especially as a parent, I have rarely seen an problem that only one side caused. I believe the phrase is, it tkaes two to tango. The Bell Tower Boys made agregious errors, but even without them…..Mike would have had his hands full next season bringing this team back into the fold, atleast thats what the data indicates.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Every coach has his hands full every season
getting players to buy in, just like catfish jesus will now.
by raider realist on Mar 16, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
And there isn't really any "data" to indicate what you suggest...
Data would be, say, the average number of fbombs per sentence, or the ratio of cuss words to those not considered to be profanity… you know, something measurable that SARR could put up in a chart or graph. Then we could compare that with the profanity ratio of all coaches, and chart their success and failure as it related to their locker room speeches.
I am NOT doubting however that SARR could construct a chart/graph to demonstrate how anecdotal evidence indicates Leach probably beat Adam James with Carters helmet, causing a concussion (and Adams face to resemble a douche-bag), and that this event was 67.3% responsible for Tech nearly loosing to Baylor.
by raider realist on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
This is all I got-
Final W-L record of coaches that lost the support of their team and/or administration in recent memory and was subsequently replaced:
Mangino: 5-7
Tuberville: 5-7
Weiss: 6-6
Ty Willingham: 0-12
Mike Leach: 9-4
Coaches that didn’t lose full team support, but either failed to live up to expectations or faded in late 2009:
Bob Stoops: 8-5
Mike Gundy: 9-4
Mike Sherman: 6-7
Dan Hawkins: 3-9
Randy Shannon: 9-4
Pete Carroll: 9-4
Dennis Erickson: 4-8
And Syracuse, and Illinois, and Clemson last year, and Michigan for the last two years, and the coach at Minnesota who got fired when Leach beat his ass in the Insight Bowl, and Steve Spurrier in South Carolina and Bobby Bowden for the past few seasons, and Phil Fulmer at mighty Tennessee.
I’m sure most of the fans from those schools would prefer that their coach “lose” his team the way Leach lost his in 2009.
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Or as Pollyanna here would say - Tech was 14 points away from being 11-1 last year
A field goal, a touchdown & a punter who won’t kick a line drive to Jordan frickin’ Shipley.
John Hancock
Would it be discussed about Leach losing the team if
we had scored those 14 points? Don’t think so.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Nope....
Another question: Would Mike Leach still be our coach if he started Sticks from the beginning?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
No?
I think we have atleast 2 more wins if Sticks was the starter. I wonder if it would have been harder to fire a coach that went 10-2.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
not these snakes, no offense to snakes.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
and who says Sheffield wins those games?
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
No one,
but he outperformed Potts in every game he played in….no reason not to believe Uh and UT would not have been better outcomes.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
don't let emotions cloud the stats
in the OSu loss, each had one TD. Potts had 1 int, Sheff had 2. Potts had 190 yds and Sheff 117.
Both had what I would call average years for first time qb’s. and this is something Tech fans were not used to.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Not sure what Sticks you were watchin Blackbeard..
Aside from his tendency to throw pick 6’s inside our 20, Sticks being on the field was like watching lightning escape from a bottle.
OSU game Sticks was hobbling on a leg that still isn't healed 6 months later
And his boot weighed more than several of his offensive linemen combined. I wouldn’t call the QB’s performance against OSU an apples vs apples comparison.
John Hancock
no doubt Sheff brought about an excitement to the field
but so did Craig Morton when Dandy Don was having a bad day. Not saying who was better, just saying stats are stats and neither were very good compared to Harrell. Not sure Harrell would have had a good year last year the way the receivers dropped pass after pass.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Harrell
would have laid the passes right on the money more times than the present QBs have. So, he may have been able to win a couple of more games than was won. We did not have him, though, so we got what we brung, so to speak. The play this year SHOULD improve. If so, a BCS bowl bid could be there to take.
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
sheffield might not have won them
but potts seemed totally different after the big sack and fumble in the UT game
the dude threw three picks against North Dakota...
he looked good against UT, but let’s not pretend that the sack caused him to go downhill… he was no star prior to that game.
Potts...
had plenty of chances to prove he can play and he failed. Time for a Sheffield or Karam to step up and give it a shot.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I blame Sticks Dad for this,
He didn’t lobby enough for his own sons playing time. What kind of lousy father must he be.
by raider realist on Mar 16, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Will Tuberville "lose the team" if he starts Potts instead of Sticks next year...?
by Houston Raider on Mar 16, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Every coach is just 1 QB decision away
from a divided locker room.
by raider realist on Mar 16, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
he may lose the team if they have to walk further than from Dan Law
many may wander into the tailgate area and be gone for ever.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
AJ might be hard to find if he wanders in there.
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
just look for the greasy spot in the parking lot
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
I am willing to concede...
that Tech was able to win games in spite of having serious locker room issues. I will also concede that that is a testament to the program Mike built. But the fact their seemed to be serious issues in the locker room remains, and one could assume that 9-4 could have easily been 11-2 if those issues had not been present. But to an extent I agree with your point here which I think is “who cares, he was a winner”. I too value wins more than locker room harmony. I was simply aswering the posters original question, that it appeared disharmony existed.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
not sure that cellphones in the locker room, or a lineman bashing his helmet are "serious"
if anything, the serious issue was with the chancellor, ad, bor, and possibly the department of transportation.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
if no member of your team....
even the seniors, stand up to defend your obviously ridiculous firing, I think something was seriously wrong. Just my opinion.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
perhaps
I will let Mr. Howard address this one.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
My daughter (in 3rd grade)
didn’t do well on her math test recently. She said it was the teacher’s fault. No matter how hard I tried, she wouldn’t stand up for her. Said she was always making the kids"do their job" and telling them “90% isn’t good enough.” My daughter said, “well, I did a good job last week” and the teacher lost it. “That was last week. It wasn’t this week. That was last week.”
So, I went up to the school and punched her teacher in the mouth. If I’ve learned anything over the years it’s that kids are always right. And they definitely don’t need some idiot demanding more out of them.
But, my daughter loves the teacher in kindergarten that gave her candy.
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 16, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Got to give it to you....
Always consistent. 1). Mike did nothing wrong, 2). all these kids are liars(or 3rd graders),and 3). if the evidence suggests otherwise, refer to the first point.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Likewise...
1) It must be Leach’s fault, 2) no one on the team supported him, 3) even when there is evidence otherwise, refer to the first point….
You continue to state that no one on the team supported him; however, we know that D. Howard did because we’re fortunate enough to have his father as a contributor to this website…
Is it possible that you don’t know of others who support him…?
by Houston Raider on Mar 16, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
They may have supported him
But they did so very quietly
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
Playing time with the new coaching staff has nothing to do with this.
by Damien Franco on Mar 17, 2010 5:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Seniors?
The seniors could have stood up very publicly to counter the negative comments of others without any consequences.They chose not to.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
No consequences?
I suppose it depends on what you’re looking at.
If the seniors are supposed to be a guiding light of some sort to the juniors and others then there are consequences.
Further, some of those seniors are looking towards the NFL and coaching/football careers so “sticking it to the man” does, in fact, carry consequences.
While this doesn’t account for all of the seniors it would certainly count for those who are leaders. The rest are followers and don’t typically stand out to begin with so it would be going against their normal traits to begin with.
by Damien Franco on Mar 17, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I was referring to playing time..
as mentioned in your post.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
In all seriousness....
you were not suprised and absolutely pissed none of these kids, especially the seniors who had been coached by Mike four four years or more, didn’t stand up for him? I’ll admit it….I was furious.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I was surprised, but felt like
the players were told to keep their mouths shut lest there be retaliation of sorts. remember these kids are for the most part 18 – 23 years old.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
I was very upset.
I did expect them to say something and support the Captain.
But a good friend of mine reminded me that there are too many politics, hand holding, and consequences for these guys.
They aren’t like me. I’m the kinda guy that says “F@!#$ the man!” but most don’t.
Instead…I focused on the already graduated players that came out in support of Leach and dismissed the commentary from the current roster.
I was also reminded that I used to hate some of my old coaches when I played for them but learned, later in life of course, that those men helped me become a man and shaped how I handle adversity and all of life’s challenges. I now respect and appreciate all of the yelling and sprinting and pushups and all of that crap I endured playing sports. It made me a better man.
by Damien Franco on Mar 18, 2010 6:12 AM CDT up reply actions
It made me a better man.
are you 40? lol
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
just a Gundy punch.............
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Damien is young for his age.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
They do, and point taken...
but I was talking about only players that played in 2009. Their behavior is central to my thesis about 2009 being an off year for Leach.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
huge difference between and "off year" and "losing the team".
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
In 1998 would 9-4 be considered an "off year"?
A bowl win in 1998 would have been considered a miracle. We averaged one bowl win a decade before Leach arrived.
John Hancock
If we had won 11 games in 1997.....
and also been blown out at home by A&M, and lost to UofH, then yes that version of 1998 would have been an “off year”. Why, are you now calling the 2009 football season a success?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Because it didn't suck
Pounding OU didn’t suck at all.
Pounding Nebraska at Nebraska didn’t suck
Pounding Kansas State, I mean really pounding K State was fun
The Ranting Leach was right. We could have won the UT game.
We should have won the Houston and OSU games.
Tech was shamed one night during last season, vs. A and Freaking M.
Every other game we won or were in a position to win.
There has never been a year in the history of the Texas Tech football program where that would be considered a down year.
Oh, and we won the Alamo Bowl too, something we had failed to do twice previously.
John Hancock
You didn't answer my question....
was the 2009 football season a success?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Compared to the 6-6 seasons we just might return to?
Yes.
Try as I might, I cannot see any difference between Francione the savior at A&M and Tuberville the savior at Tech. Neal Brown is the only thing that gives me hope.
John Hancock
Wow.....
LR just spent a lot of time compiling data that clearly and thouroughly proves that Tubs was just as much a winner as Mike. So is this lack of hope based on some yet reported information? And if a 9-4 season, including a pounding by A&M at home, a loss to UofH, blown leads, the Potts debacle, and our coach being fired is a success……..then you should be very optomisitc about 2010 because you are very easy to please.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Leach being fired was a success in the eyes of the following:
kent hance
gerald myers
craig james
larry anders
jerry turner
dan serna
rick francis
john scovell
john huffaker
mickey long
nancy neal
kyle miller
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
don't think they would stoop to murder.....
just a list of dickheads.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Success at Auburn != Success at Tech
Tubbs doesn’t enter the Tech pantheon of great coaches by being great somewhere else, and he hasn’t proven squat yet. I hope he does well, but you can’t prove by abstract reasoning that he will be in the same league as Leach. Only time will tell.
Again....
No one is talking about Tubs FUTURE achievements. The point that was made was that Tubs PAST was just as successful as Leach’s, and that is undeniable.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
by TTUMAR on Mar 17, 2010 10:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
So in the mean time let’s put him down and denigrate him as much as possible on a public website all because we are pissed off at someone else! I’m with ya!!!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
I’m not doing anything to Tubs except pointing out the obvious – that there’s no guarantees. You cannot simply project Tubs past success into the future. If you could, wouldn’t Rich Rodriguez and Charlie Weisses of the world be doing a lot better?
I hope the football program does well. I have no beef with Tubs, in fact I wanted him here to take the reigns from the first moment I heard he was interested.
I don’t see any point in putting Leach down and trying to argue he didn’t do great things, or he deserved what he got because he Lost The Team or said fuck a lot in the locker room, and that’s why we didn’t win 11 games again.
I think it's possible both are true...
I think, just as in 2006, Mike lost the hearts and minds of many on the team, and that contibuted to an off year.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
According to one that was there..........
Leach felt like a large number of players in 2009 felt entitled.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
and got a wrong number
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
"I'm sorry, he can't come to the phone right now, er, uh, he's
in the shed so to speak."
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
and the good Captain said,
" I mean none of that shit adds up to this fucking year. [mumble] None of it. But the thing is it hasn’t sunk in. And as coaches we failed to make it sink in for the duration of this year. Now, failed to make it sink in, well how do you make it sink in. Well you start by probably cutting some people. You start by getting some people who are more mentally tough. You start by benching people. You start by rolling the fuck out of somebody"
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
But isn't Leach....
just as much to blame for those losses as the team…if not more? He is the coach, he can bench anyone he wants for not putting out, the buck stops with him, not the “entitled players”. If what your implying is true……then why all the hate for PK? Maybe he just has a slew of “entitled players”.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
please, PK is inexperienced and inept (and overpaid for on the job training)
and from what I can tell, only he and Singletary are entitled.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
I was being sarcastic,and yes it appears pat is those things...
and yes Leach is just as much to blame as the players for the “bad losses”, if not more. I know much is lost in terms of intent when typing, so don’t feel I have anything other than much love for the Blackbearded one. The fact is I started bloggin here last Oct and was critical of Leach from time to time, on a case by case basis. Those comments were always met with the usual “coach knows what he is doing, never question the captain” posts. Let’s face it, for Leach’s most ardent fans, it is never acceptable to question his methods and it never will be. As for me, the season of critiquing Tubs starts next month.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
don't be gettin all sweet on me
this ain’t prison ball ya know.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Listen....
what you Damien, and Kwash do in Midland is your business. All tsocked up on “mojo” here thanks.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
did not say that Leach did not have a part in the success/failure of the 2009 team to
win the national championship. merely stating what he thought was the problem and how he was determined to fix it going forward as was his duty.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Leach knows where he and the staff went wrong.
“…as coaches we failed to make it sink in for the duration of this year”
He took ownership. Something that many people with power and leadership positions fail to do time and time again.
Whether he was having an “off year” or not Leach was looking into it and, IMHO, would have, most likely, been able to pull together a strategy for this coming season on how to handle and deal with those issues.
Remember that Leach was always working on his strategies on and off the field. He worked tirelessly to tweak and improve what worked and remove what didn’t.
by Damien Franco on Mar 18, 2010 6:19 AM CDT up reply actions
And he had the time to do so because he wasn't busy with the...
Gawd-country-football PR tour… like our current coach…
correct Sir all efforts require focus Mike Leach took the HC gig serious and left off the golf tourneys
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Mar 21, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not really sure there is any data that says mike would have "had his hands full bringing the team back into the fold"
if there is, I’d like to see it.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
did Mike do anything to bring about his own demise.
Sure he did. He could have saved the whole deal, but what ever it is that makes him tick would not allow him to step into a role where he reasonable quickly apologizes to Craig James. Had that happened early enough, most of us would not know anything about the whole deal.
Mike would have had his hands full next season bringing this team back into the fold, at least thats what the data indicates.
Every year is a different year, it is a different team with different leadership and different people…even with the carry over from class to class, there is a different mix. Every year is one of creating a team in the greater sense of team, the team mind set…that is not automatic. It was glaring in the 2007 team, they had every reason to have been better, two games easily.
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
I'll agree that Mike "could have" aplogized.
I don’t believe that it was in his character to applogize for something he believed in. Especially when it would mean kissing the ass of a “legend in his own mind” type like cj.
It’s kinda like his going for it on 4th and 7. When he believed, he went for it. When he believed in his team he went for it.
Every year IS different, every team is different……..this year will be different.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
We are saying essentially the same thing about the apology...
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
Mike Leach is Mike Leach
We Texas Tech fans have been blessed to witness for ten years a very unique college football coach. A coach who has the inquisitive nature that led him to read about things that most of us just wonder about. A coach not totally consumed with “just sports”, but with a passion for excellence which leads to winning. A coach who did more with less while at the same time did not seek the light of the cameras. I agree with TTpik that the media sought him out beacuse his comments were certain gold.
Did Mike Leach lose his team this last season? Who’s to say, but for sure (and i think he would tell you this as well) it was not the season he worked for. In his post-Baylor speach he talked about being mentally tough, about riding on 2008 coattails, not putting in the effort. He was correct. Go back and review the fan and media comments after the Nebraska game this year about how good we were, how we dominated defensively……..BS….Nebraska would go on to prove they had no idea what an offense was. Read the comments after we destroyed KState….same type.
Did Leach lose the team? You can’t convince me of that. Was he disappointed in the effort in 2009? youbetcha.
Did he change over the years and become some bitter old pirate? Doubtful. Did he ever have the backing of his AD? Doubtful and certainly not in the end. Would I love to have a drink with the man and talk philosophy, football, and Chruchill? Absolutely.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Gotta admit you are onto something..
the fact is Leach didnt do too much in the way of public relations gigs. In the end it seemed to wear thin with the Big Wheels. Though he did seem to run a lot of coaches clinics.Tubs seems to love a camera. Have fun with it Tommie. Hope the coordinators can coach. Maybe this translates to more recruiting or better recruiting across our region?
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
The price of success
I think after the 2008 season we saw a different Leach who expected more from his team. Rightfully so but it was still a matter of having to do more with less like it or not. Leach was no different than us in wanting more. I’m sure by mid 2009 season he was very pissed after his new QB looked ill prepared. We all expected more and used the adjective “reloading” way too many times. Fact is we lost Crab and Harrell which led this team like no other Tech team has. The defense carried the team last season and our receivers looked like crap most of the time. Leach’s fine tuned machine was missing the 2 cogs that made it run. I’m sure it wore him out after struggling against teams most thought we would blow out with ease. In the end I think Leach’s attitude was different in ‘09 and made it’s way up to the bell tower. Personally, I loved having Mike Leach as our coach and I could care less what the media portrays him to be. I would take that guy as my head coach in a heart beat be it 2008 or 2009 season.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I don’t know if Mike Leach changed during the time he was at Tech. Actually, I’m sure he changed dramatically and grew as he became a successful head coach, learned to manage not just the offense but the entire team, etc.
I think Leach was ambitious and wanted Texas Tech to be successful – he was not content with being a middling South contender with 7-9 wins and a bowl game. He had already been there and done that; one thing about Leach was that he didn’t want to stand still. He’s never been a “Well, we put up a good fight” kind of coach. The reason why we won so many games by coming back when we were down was because he believed we were never out of a game, made everyone else believe it too, and had the system and people in place to make it possible.
And no, he was not perfect, but if coaches could be traded, I’m not sure I can think of anyone outside of Nick Saban or Urban Meyer that I’d even consider.
by merrik on Mar 16, 2010 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
well said
I’ve been thinking about a few things along those lines. I think we, as Tech fans, find ourselves in unfamiliar territory because of Leach’s accomplishments. Who can honestly say they expected for Tech to be legitimate National Title contenders before 2008? I certainly never did. I always looked at college football on two levels- those guys that played for championships (UT, USC, Florida, etc) and the rest of us. I think that’s why I enjoyed it so much. I had my team to root for, but also the “big games” to get excited about while not completely invested in them. The definition of success in my mind was a Cotton Bowl win and a "perfect season’ would have been a BCS berth. That all changed during a two week span in November 2008. Tech was suddenly a part of a much larger conversation. Those two weeks changed all of us forever. I’m sure Leach was different in 2009 than he had been in previous years. He had to be. He was probably a lot meaner and tougher. He had to fight to keep his team and fans from drifting back towards the mentality that 9-4 was a good (if not great) season. He knew that he would lose a few players along the way but he was ok with that. Transforming decades of mediocrity is a tough process, especially when it all seemed so sudden after November 2008. “We barely beat Baylor, but it’s ok.”
He was on his way to taking all of us, kicking and screaming, to join that other group of teams that we saw on College Gameday every week.
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 16, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thrilled after the Baylor game
We should have beaten them much worse, but I was glad to get out of Dallas with a win and an 8-4 record. It could have been worse. They could have scored on that last play and gone for the 2 point conversion. I celebrated that night in downtown Dallas because we squeaked out a win and salvaged a respectable season.
So, when I watched his post-game rant after the Baylor game, I realized he was yelling at me too. “Eff You, Sarr. And Eff me. And Eff everybody.”
"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance
by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 16, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree and wish he was still there. I like your point about him demanding more from the team after many years of “slightly better than average football.” It was time in his career that we moved beyond a circus act that throws the ball a lot and has wide splits. He may have expected 2008 to propel us towards greater success, maybe not in the W/L column due to losing Brandon Williams (What? you expected me to say Crabtree or Harrell? haha) but definitely in the caliber of players and effort being put forth by those who were around to enjoy the spoils.
"Life's a garden, dig it."
by Remington870 on Mar 16, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
The thing about the Baylor rant
and losing the team is the context of that talk.
It was immediately after a game in which TTU could have dominated a Big12 South team. The last game of the season, the one in which the bowl selection committees were watching and the last game for the outgoing seniors.
That speech was directed not so much at the team that would play a bowl game, IMHO, but at the players who would be returning in the Spring. It was in the context of the outgoing seniors to some degree…the ones who did not give 100%, did get to hear him one last time speak his mind about their last game, their last season…in the presence of those returning.
If he had ‘lost’ the team ( I really don’t like that term, it is way too broad and overly dramatic), he was already getting the ones who would count next season notice.
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
perfect
That sir I agree with 100%. Leach was making it very clear that returning starters were going to be re-evaluated and positions we open game. No doubt he lost his cool by seasons end but after watching our receivers drop balls all season long and no solid QB performance who can really blame him. I think if Leach were coaching Tech in 2010 we would have seen a whole lot of changes to that offense as far as players in the starting rotation.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
we will prolly never know what REALLY happened
Leach was a helluva coach. Yes. Tubbs aint no slouch either. Yes. The Tech program will be more than alright under Tubbs, thusly having London to put this data together to prove it. Tubss will be as successful or more than Leach. People just gotta have faith. I wish i had a definite answer as to why the captain was let go but i dont. It sucks and i want to why, but this isnt the end of Tech football. Were gonna win games,were gonna be competitive, and theres gonna be things happening too. It aint all that bad.
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
EDIT*
gonna be new things*
want to know why*
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 17, 2010 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
No, he didn't change...
…and I don’t even know why this was even posted. I’m pretty sure any coach would act like that when Administration is pulling bullshit drama about him through e-mail conversations since they don’t have the balls to confront Mike in person and talk about whatever problems they had with him face to face. Any other administration around the country would pursue that route. The source of the problem came from Jim Sowell who convinced Hance of a conspiracy theory against Leach. I lost all respect for Tech’s Administrators after I read those highly unprofessional e-mails.
I also don’t think Leach lost love from his players either. Leach is right in his speech that they didn’t know how to handle success, That’s why he was cussing up a storm against his players and himself…because let’s face it:
What do you think is the best solution to solve that internal team issue?
You really can’t fix that issue until the players gain the mindset that they have to work every single game in order to come out with the win. No team can obtain success by just standing there.
What other options did Leach have? Give hugs and kisses to his players for not doing their jobs? Sorry, but this is football we are talking about here. Not ballet or cheerleading.
Now, I'm not saying Leach is free from fault...
I do think he made a mistake by keeping Potts out there instead of using “Sticks”. But that is the only mistake I saw Leach do throughout the season.
The whole Leach debocle really ticked me off when Administration was throwing a hissy fit about his contract negotiations a year prior. At that time, Leach was getting the lowest salary out of any Coach in the Big 12 and it’s pretty clear that Leach is the reason why Tech’s football program increased quality-wise with 10 straight bowl-game bids. Yet, Administrators still wanted to pay him like gutter-trash.
That is what frustrated me more than anything. Bob Stoops got paid more in one year than Tech paid Leach for a decade and Stoops hasn’t won a national championship in about a decade. Now, I’m not saying Leach deserved a paycheck as big as Stoops, but Tech could have at least paid him like he was the 3rd/4th best coach in the Big 12.
Hell, even Baylor paid more money to their head coach than TTU paid Leach every year. That’s just wrong on too many levels.
Wrench raider....
Tubss will be as successful or more than Leach. People just gotta have faith?
To be as successful as leach, tubs would have to improve this program substantially…not just match his average # of wins. I just don’t do well when people say you just have to do something and we will see. Nancy Pelosi wants to pass a bill so then the taxpayer can see what’s in it. I will be cheering Tubs and Tech on….Zantac in hand.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 17, 2010 11:12 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
as long as your there holmes
Ill catch if you pass out from all the run plays we will run ;)
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 18, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Just had to call you out
For stating that tubs will do more than leach…I can’t state either way with certainty. Hope foe the best and prepare for the worst.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 18, 2010 5:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I said just as or more
I didnt say that his success was a gurantee. But i look at his track record, and seen what he has done, and i feel assured that we will be ok.
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 18, 2010 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, 3 players from his last 10 years spoke out FOR him...
Numerically, it seems obvious that there was a change after the contract dispute. I can’t blame him…I still hate the stooges…but it just seems to me he took it out on his players and their fat little girl friends….
Bottom Line…. He is gone…our taxdollars (ALOT OF OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!) are going to be deposited in a Key West bank because our admin are idiots…we have a new coach…
and you can choose to support your team or not. That is all.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
This is not a discussion on the merits of John Firtzgerald Katfish Jesus, it is about Leach
I’m sure tubbs will do ok. we can hope he wins. we all support the team or we would not be so passionate about our opinions.
Just one thought, we are Texas Tech and we have proven that we won’t always get the best players when compared to ut and atm and ou, but we put together a pretty entertaining product. It just could be the the “numberically obvious” 9-4 season was more a product of talent on the field and character of the team than anything else. Maybe all were trying their best and just couldn’t get it done. Maybe not. I would submit that Leach had a passion for excellence which has been illustrated time and time again. I will further submit that the 2009 team did not.
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
My great fear (premonition?) is that in 4 years we will be shocked that 9-4 was thought by anybody as a letdown
If Tech football continues to recruit the 4th or 5th best talent in the Big 12 South, then competent SEC coaching won’t help us anymore than Alabama defector Francione helped Texas A&M. Tubs did well with Auburn talent. I would argue that since Alabama was in decline those years, he was playing with Alabama talent. He didn’t do quite as well with Ole Miss talent. And Ole Miss talent is exactly what he will be coaching at Texas Tech. The path to glory for Texas Tech football now becomes whether we can collect better recruiting classes than A&M and Oklahoma State. I doubt we will ever see the type of talent OU gets & I know nobody in the 5 state Wright Amendment Love Field restricted flying zone will ever see the types of recruiting classes UT gets year in and year out. Under the old regime we often out-thought them & that overcame the talent mismatch. Now we must outplay them & once you stop tilting the playing field in your direction by out-scheming your opponents, it all comes down to which team has the best football players.
John Hancock
Lots of truth to that
but I still firmily believe that the offense stays fairly close to what it was as far as the passing game. I also speculate that Brown can run this offense and add things that may make it even more potent. I doubt Tuberville dabbles in the offense unless Brown starts to fail. I would have loved to see Dana H. as our OC but maybe Brown’s got what it takes. Leach’s play book will be much alive in 2010. The one element I do think we’ll see less of is going for it on 4th down. I expect a more conservative approach if we are inside our own 50. That may not make us all happy but maybe our defense will balance that out a bit. You’re correct in our ability to out-scheme opponents under Leach and that was our calling card. My thought is that many coaches such as Brown and others are possibly the next Mike Leach. Mikes methods have been widely studied by up and coming coaches and it’s no mystery that teams are getting close to Leach’s spread offense and air attack – see Houston and now OSU. I think it will come down to coaching and so far we have some good ones on board. Recruiting will get better if Tech can continue to win no doubt and if so I think Tech can do better than A&M and OSU. I agree that tech will never recruit to the likes of OU and UT.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
This is golden...
If Tech football continues to recruit the 4th or 5th best talent in the Big 12 South, then competent SEC coaching won’t help us anymore than Alabama defector Francione helped Texas A&M.
I think the recruiting class issues are a legit concern....
I guess my question is, if we keep the same offense, improve the defense, and still don’t break the glass ceiling……..what chance did Leach have going forward without improved defense?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Seems that the scenario you spell out is true....
regardless who the coach is, so did you have these same concerns with Leach at the helm?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
He gave us 9 and 11 win seasons with 6 and 7 win players
Can the new guys do the same? I like Neal Brown. I’m excited about what he brings to the table. I don’t see conventional SEC coaching having a great difference in performance unless the players get better.
John Hancock
All seems very subjective....
I could argue that our 4th or 5th best recruiting classes within the conference gave us 8, 9, and one 11 win seasons……and Oklahoma and Texas’ top recruiting classes got them consistently to the BCS. It’s all subjective. Either the glass is half full or half empty.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Well... I guess we'll see this year...
I think we can all agree that Leach would win at least 8 games with the current crew. If Tuberville wins fewer than 8 games with the talent Leach put together:
1) He’d better improve our recruiting GREATLY to keep getting us to 8 wins per year.
OR
2) We’re in deep, deep #%$@
Im gonna say that we are gonna win at least 8 games
Got a lot of guys back on offense. Defense will see a improvement IMO.
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 19, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
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