Doing More With Less: The hole in Tub's armour.
by TTUMAR on Mar 18, 2010 10:10 PM CDT
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Much has been been made over the last decade of Tech football in regards to our ability to do more with less. And by "our" ability, I mean the ability of Coach Leach and his staff too do more with less. I know from discussions with members of Spyke's staff, this concept was not exclusive to Leach, as Spykes in fact did defeat teams with better athletes from time to time......but let's face it, by all accounts Coach Leach was able to do this to a spectacular degree. I know this information has been covered before by others, and most recently by our local guru LondonRaider. For accuracy, I am no LondonRaider, so keep your expectations low so that I am less likely to disappoint. But I wanted to go back and look specifically at this topic, and data behind it, because IMO of all the fears about our future success, the question of whether we will be able continue to "do more with less" may just be the most legitimate fear......and the one that makes Tubs & CO's stay in Lubbock short.
The stats: I believe LR covered these rankings in his work, and for accuracy, my data comes from ESPN & Rivals.I am going to spare you the individual stats for each year and simply average the rankings each coach had within their respected conferences in both recruiting and final ranking within their conference.
Who Did More With Less From 2002-2008?
Coach Leach
Avg. Recruiting Class Ranking: 8.14
Avg. Final Conference Ranking: 3.85
Coach Tuberville
Avg. Recruiting Class Ranking: 4.57
Avg. Final Conference Ranking: 3.85
As you can see both coaches exceeded expectations by consistently ranking higher than their recruiting classes would indicate they should have. That said, these numbers clearly show that Coach Leach did this to a ridiculous degree. In fact Coach Leach achieved more than twice the average ranking within the conference for wins, than his recruiting classes would indicate was possible. There is simply no denying that Coach Leach was a master at doing more with less.
Given these facts, there is very little reason to believe that Coach Tuberville will be able to continue the same level of overachievment as his predecessor. Ultimately, if you believe that ability is the key to our success going forward, then I think there is great cause to be concerned. If our future performance has to more than double what our talent says is possible going foward, I predict coach Tubs & CO will have a short stay in Lubbock.
Is there reason for hope?
Of course there is. But it won't be easy. The only way to change the grim outcome described above is to change the game. If we can't do more with less............we will have to do more with more.
Can Coach Tubervill and his staff raise recruiting to fill the coaching void created when Coach Leach left? The data says that's exactly what Coach Tubs does. You see Blackbeard provided a great pearl of wisdom the other day involving a Buick and a Mustang Convertible I believe. The moral being there is more than one way to get to a goal. Another way of saying, it doesn't matter how you get there, just so long as you get there. If you look back at the data above, you may notice that both Leach and Tubs had the exact same average ranking within their conferences. Regardless of how they did it, they each found a way to get to an average ranking of 3.85. It doesn't matter what the ratings companies say, and how many stars you have, it only matters what happened on the field. The results speak for themselevs, and as LR pointed out, the results where nearly identical.
So what does this mean for Tubs? Tubs didn't get to 3.85 by doing more with less. In fact his recruiting class had nearly the same score as his conference ranking. He did more with more. He took kids that where 3rd or 4th best, and they played 3rd or 4th best. I know there are some that would say Tubs won't be able to recruit at that level here, but the data says different. Tubs was consistently the 3rd or 4th best in his conference just like Leach, and he was able to translate that into a 3rd or 4th best recruiting class. Does it make sense that a team like Tech should consistently ranked in the top 4 in the conference, but never be able to convince recruits we are the 4th best team, not once in ten years? Yes Leach did more with less, but he also was never able to translate a 3rd or 4th best perfroamance on the field, to a 3rd or 4th best recruiting class the following year. Doing more with less only produces better results if in the future the more translates into better recruiting classes, thus ending the need to do more with less.
Will Tubs pull this off? Obviously we don't know. But the data says his recruiting prowess was just as effective as Leach's coaching prowess. You can try to re-write history all you want, but 3.85 is 3.85, no matter how you got there. If he maintains that edge, we have hope. If he deviates from what made him good, we need to keep shopping for the right man for the job. If you look at the data, what we really need is to mesh these two guys into one. The holy grail is Leach's Xs & Os, and Tubs' recruiting record. Cumbie and Brown represent the dash of Leach in our new concoction. Whether there is enough Leach in them, we will soon find out.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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I see Tuberville and staff leading Tech to higher levels of accomplishment. Consider, when Leach began at Tech, he started with very little in the way of talent. Looking back, he was able to improve the level of recruiting on an almost perfect upward trend. Tuberville started with a higher level of talent at Tech than did Leach. Leach was on the cusp of taking Tech into a continuous battle for the Big-12 South title, and ultimately the Big-12 Championship, leading to BCS games. By starting at a higher level, Tuberville has absolutely no excuse for not achieving same said results as anticipated with Leach.If he can’t do that, all the hard work Leach and his staff did to upgrade Texas Tech football will have been in vain, and, to an extent, Leach will be vindicated for the actions taken against him by the Texas Tech administration. While the Cap’n is frolicking on the beach, awaiting that call for help from someone, Tuberville is going to have his hands full trying to meet all the expectations that are now prevalent for the Red Raider’s head football coach.
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
If it does come down to
Recruiting vs coaching, and tubs can’t swing the coaching sword to do more with less….we are hosed.
He has to be able to coach our guys to run and know our system better than our opponents if we are to win. We will win nothing in recruiting comparisons.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 18, 2010 11:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
We are the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference.
But have yet to convince recruits that is true. If we can, we move forward.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
by TTUMAR on Mar 18, 2010 11:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't hold your breath
We have to know our system better than others, and recruit to that system ( it won’t include accolades from rival,etc.)
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 19, 2010 7:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You can't put recruiting all on the head coach.
The fact is that a facility improvement and better game attendance by the fan base would do a lot to bolster recruiting. Coaches can rally for that stuff, but ultimately it’s up to the administration, the students, and the alumni to make it happen.
While I agree with your thoughts on facility improvement
I’m hesitiant to agree with game attendance by the fan base.
I don’t have the records, and I’m too busy right now to look them up, but weren’t we putting more people in the stands with Leach’s teams?
And if that’s the case…why didn’t that translate to better recruiting classes? Or did it?
I just have issues with putting success on the heads of the fans and student body.
The stadium will fill if we win and won’t if we don’t.
How many games has the Jones sold out and with the new seating and increased pricing aren’t the seats going to look more empty than before?
Just to prove a point BTW the Dallas Stars have been one of the most successful teams in the NHL will ticket sales and near sell-out games but the last couple of seasons have not been successful for that team record wise. I’m sure there are more examples of this even in College Football.
Or am I way off base?
by Damien Franco on Mar 19, 2010 5:50 AM CDT up reply actions
While I think fan support does affect money to the program...
And a general level of excitement around a program, I agree with you that recruitment specifically is squarely on the coaching staff.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
by TTUMAR on Mar 19, 2010 7:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If this is true...
why is it that when you’re in the recruiting phase of NCAA Football ’10, you can woo a recruit to your school by pitching the fanbase and the facilities? Answer me that, huh?
In all seriousness, players take a facility tour when they arrive on campus. Some facilities speak success, some speak mediocrity. You can’t say that the facility of the school doesn’t weigh on a recruit’s mind.
I think fan support is very strong at Tech considering the population base
I would say a three hour drive to regularly attend fall football games is most people’s limit. Using a three hour drive as the boundry, the numbers look like this:
3 hours or less drive to a given Big 12 South football stadium:
Central/East Texas/North Texas/ Oklahoma metropolitan area populations:
DFW 6.5 million
Houston 5.8 million
San Antonio – 2 million
Austin – 1.7 million
Waco 230k
Oklahoma City – 1.2 million
Tulsa – 1 million
West Texas metro populations:
Lubbock – 270k
Midland/Odessa – 263k
Amarillo 240k
Abilene 160k
Total 933k, 1 million after adding rural populations
16.23 million – Texas (stadium 100,000) & Texas A&M (stadium 83,000) (population number includes all east, central & N Texas areas, excludes OK City & Tulsa)
8.7 million – Oklahoma – stadium 82,000 (DFW plus OK City and Tulsa metro populations)
933,000 – Texas Tech – stadium 60,000 (West Texas metro populations)
Driving population to stadium seats ratio:
University of Texas – 162 to 1
Texas A&M – 195 to 1
Oklahoma – 106 to 1
Texas Tech University – 15.5 to 1
So Texas Tech must draw ten times the ratio of its driving population base to fill a 60,000 seat stadium than most of their conference rivals. So 50,000 screaming fans in Jones Stadium equals a half a million screaming Longhorn fans in one place at one time.
John Hancock
I agree...
but I don’t think that recruits think in those terms. You either have a big crowd, or you don’t. I think our 60,000 fans/game are nastier and harder to play in front of than the 83,000 at A&M… but that’s hard to sell, y’know?
Fans need to attend more games
Great work mbrown. I have never understood why Jones Stadium does not fill up every game win or lose. I live in San Antonio and I make the six hour drive four to five times a year. I attended the Oklahoma game and I was shocked and disappointed the stadium was not filled. TECH fans missed a great game. Win or lose we need to fill up the stadium not just for A&M and Texas. Recruits do pay attention to stadium capacities. We have to support our team win or lose. We don’t and never will have a 100,000 seat stadium. But, there is no reason we do not sell out every game. I have seen TECH play at every venue in the Big12. While our fans are the best, you would be shocked out how many other Big12 schools sell out on a regular basis, besides Kansas and Kansas State. The message here is attend the game, make it a weekend event, tailgate, catch up with old friends, and just have an all around good time. WIN or LOSE. Go Red Raiders.
Too many variables
and not all of them completely within Tub’s control.
How will the defense react to an entire new scheme? Do we have the players for that scheme on hand? How long till they gel?
How will the O-line do with a new right side? Remember it took half the season last year before we had a predictable lineup, and it showed. And then there’s Sticks v Potts. How will the new OC do? Can he match Leach or will we be just another team running the spread?
I’m trying to be optimistic. If three or four factors fall together halfway decent, we could take the Big 12. If not, we should still be about the same as last year. I don’t see us going in the tank. Not unless Brown is completely incapable at OC. I don’t see how the defense could be any worse than we’re used to. I expect big improvements there, but you have to give a guy a chance to bring in his players (just like we kept saying about Ruff).
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
More with Less vs. Less with More
I may be way off base here, but this is nagging at me a bit.
Looking at it numerically, I don’t see how Tuberville competes with Leach. Tuberville has a higher rated recruiting ranking, but can’t seem to best Leach’s Final Conference Ranking. What troubles me here is that Leach was able to do more with less, but Tuberville has a lesser rate of improvement despite having better recruits. Does this mean that he has trouble squeezing out the best in his recruits and is satisfied with only moderate improvement? Was it his coaching staff? I just don’t know the answer to this.
Despite this thought, I am hopeful for a continued move toward success. But like TechFirst, I think there are just too many variables to make that call right now. I’m looking forward to the Spring Game where we can actually see the action and feel the energy from the players.
This girl likes football, too.
Seems youm are looking at this a bit scewed JB....
They both did more with less, with Leach doing far more with less. But both paths took them to the same place. Doing more with less really is only a good thing early in a coaches career. Think about it, sooner or later, shouldn’t the success translate into better recruiting classes? What I am saying is for the last decade we have overachieved on the field, and underachieved in recruiting, and that took us to 3.85 in the conference. Tubs didn’t over achieve or under achieve at either, he got 3rd or 4th best kids, and turned in 3rd or 4th best results, and also got to 3.85. The notion that Leach was someday going to have better talent to over achieve with simply did not play out in the last 10 years. That data has been covered before.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I am really looking forward to what tt can do with our program, and I definitely agree that the coaching staff is going to be exciting to watch. Having said that, I’m a little uncertain of his ability to produce greater results. I was struggling last night to write my comments in a way that made sense. You stated it by talking about over/under achieving. I would just like to see tt stats show that he can over achieve at a slightly greater rate. Being a numbers person, I conceed that the higher the scores in the beginning the harder it is to chart drastic improvement in the end.
For me it boils down to this. Can tt inspire, lead, coach, anticipate, etc. at the same level as what we are used to with Leach? That was what I was pondering in response to your poll.
This girl likes football, too.
by Tech-ex: JB on Mar 19, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
It comes down to Conventional thinking vs. Unconventional thinking
Conventional thinking is the easiest path. People are more comfortable with it, most people follow it, it doesn’t ruffle any feathers. It’s less risky, it also limits your upside. That is why my great hope is in the brain of Neal Brown.
John Hancock
I too have hope in Brown.
I think Neal, Matt, and Cumbie have a little Leach and them,and it just may be enough to keep the offense going.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
in them...not and them...I can't type.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Totally agree about conventional v. unconventional
but in a different way. Leach was completely unconventional and tt seems to be conventional. I don’t mind change and actually believe it works to keep people performing at their best levels. I’m hoping that all of this change for the team and the coaches will bring about a new level of achievement on the field.
This girl likes football, too.
by Tech-ex: JB on Mar 19, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Less but why?
It seemed as if Tubs just coasted the last few years at Auburn, could be he was still mad at being screwed over by those know better than the coach trustees in their failed coup, knew he would never be secure there, I mean how secure and loyal can you be to a group who loaded up the corporate jet with univ. officials to bring back your replacement before you were even fired. Only a newsleak aborted the whole fiasco. He followed that up with an undefeated season and seemed to give them all the finger, while waiting on them to show him the door and the big check on his way out. Maybe the fire is back, if so could make Big 12 very interesting.
Crap...never agreed with a Bammer before...
I agree that he had the right tools at the right time to give the admin the finger…but CTT is not the kind of man to give up after that….he would have wanted to give them the finger every year that he was there…he was hamstrung from then on out. CTT is not a quitter. I find it interesting that you are here on a TTU board. Get tired of being banned from SEC boards?
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
So you would rather lose and keep a coach?
I have said this before, Tech would bwe better of being a stepping stone for the coaching elite, than a graveyard for coaching mediocrity. If Tubs coaches 2 years, wins a title, and then leaves, thats still a win for Tech. The program will be elevated to elite status, and the talent of future coaches will reflect that. A few years of that type of success, and perhaps Tech will become one of the few final destinations for elite coaches, thats the goal. If you think we are there now, you need to check the scoreboard.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I don't have much time to comment, but I thought I'd throw this out there
Mercer University did a study (I think they continue to update it, but I can’t find the most recent recruiting class) where they research what factors into a recruit making a choice about a university:
- Whether the athlete made an "official visit" to a specific college
- Whether the school is in a BCS conference
- The distance from the high school athlete’s hometown to a specific school
- Whether the recruit is in the same state as a specific school
- The final AP Ranking of a specific school in the previous year of competition
- The number of conference titles a school has recorded in recent years
- Whether the school is currently under a "bowl ban" for violating NCAA rules
- The current number of scholarship reductions a school faces for violating NCAA rules
- The size of the team’s stadium (measured in terms of seating capacity)
- Whether the school has an on-campus stadium
- The current age of the team’s stadium
Just something for everyone to discus.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
That was a very interesting
and surprising read.
Particularly surprised by the things that didn’t matter to recruits in their decisions.
by Damien Franco on Mar 19, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Totally...
I would have thought “hotness of female student body” would have been a top three issue…
but, seriously, it’s interesting that football stuff like scheme, playing time, etc didn’t make the list.
This goes to show
Recruits go to the school not the coach. I guess has to use the school well to be a successful recruiter.
"I find I'm so excited. I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitment only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope." Red-Shawshank Redemption
I guess the coach has to use
"I find I'm so excited. I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitment only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope." Red-Shawshank Redemption
All I know is....
If Art Briles can elevate recruiting at Baylor we can sure do it here. Have you been to Waco?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Has he?
They were a mid 60s team before and were a high 50s team after, although his class for 2010 looks pretty good so far. Given the relatively slim margins between the 64th best team in the country, recruiting, and the 56th best team, can we really call his efforts an identifiable elevation?
by Skin Patrol on Mar 19, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I should clarify....
He took a recruit from us this year, one from Tenn, and of course he got RG to go there as well. I would say that is progress.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Great link and great article
Based on that list, we should be spending all of our recruiting dough on bringing every 5 and 4 star kid in the state by the truckload no matter what the position, showing Leach highlight films on a an HD 100 inch TV while letting all the kids hold Tubs’ SEC championship trophy, add 20,000 elevated aluminum bleachers in Red Raider Alley and refer to them as ‘the new seating under construction,’ play the odds and see what happens!!
Wreck ’em!
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Mar 19, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry guys
but Tubbs is a less with more guy not the other way arround.
With the exception of 2004 Tubbs always had the deepest teams in the SEC but could never get over the hump.
In fact, his reputation and a lack of respect for Auburn going into the 04 Season likely kept him out of the BCSNC game.
I think he will be gone in three to four years either way.
If he is succesful for a couple of years he will jump at another opportunity and if he is not (more likely) you guys will turn on him with pent up anger over the captain having to walk the plank.
Sorry, just my .02
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Thanks for the input...
however the data does not supprot your arguement. Anyone with a computer can go to the rivals website and see that Tubs consistently recruited the 4th to 5th best class in the SEC.This notion that he had top of the conference talent year in and year out simply isn’t true.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Above is for SouthernMan
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I like "High Plains Drifter"......
and if he was an Offensive coach I think there could be real concern as he would be compared to the Pirate….but as a D coach I think he will bring a different dynamic then we have had in 10 years….and if HPD stays 3 to 4 years and we continue on I would love to hire Coach Willis as our HC when HPD is gone….I think it will all be fine and again my “glass half full” is based on 2 things: I like the staff HPD has hired and I like what I have heard about what HPD did with his year off and I think he really observed and learned@ ESPrumor and overall coaching in the 2000’s. So I’m pumped! Wreck’Em Tech
I don't care who DID more with what
I want John Firzgerald Katfish Jesus to do more with what he has NOW. Nothing else matters does it?
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
Un-related stat.....
Since Tech defated Texas 39-33 in 2008:
Record Against Ranked Teams: 2-5
Record Against Bowl Elligible Teams: 5-6
Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Also, since Tech defeated Texas 39-33 in 2008....
Away Game Record: 1-4
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Roughly the same time period Tubs went 2-6 in his division.
Including a loss to Vanderbilt I think? One thing I think we do know from all the video of Pirate rants in the locker room, Leach didn’t loose his passion for his team during his last season.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 19, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I recognize this....
this is the “well he did it too defense”. Didn’t fly on nursery school, schouldn’t fly at Tech. We have some work to do.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
And how could it be roughly the same time period?
Tubs didn’t coach the entire 2009 season.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
your right, i had the time line wrong...
I’m trying to take Tubs body of work in its entirety and stay on the positive side of the debate. (The thing I can’t shake is the idea that he quit on his team, as even Auburn fans that loved the guy will tell you.) I think there is more value (for me at least) in looking at the totality, and it looks like we got a better deal in Tubs when all of the measurables are evaluated as a whole. I thought this thread to going in that direction, until your last few comments.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 19, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I see what your throwing down....
and those stats weren’t intended to say anything about Tubs or Leach but about how far we have come since the pinnacle of the program, and to say we have a long way to go. I tried to illustrate that be using the word “un-related” but obviously failed miserably.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
So teams are only responsible for the good years?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
I hang the UofH loss in 2009 squarely on the shoulders of the Captain...
but the OU loss in 2008 was on the team, as was the bowl loss.
You’re not going to sell me on Leach being a poor coach just based on our win/loss record during a sub-par 9-4 year.
Now come on, when did I say Leach was a poor coach.
Should I bother blogging or just wait for you to tell me what I said?
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
***SOME Auburn fans...
I personally, and many of my old contacts that were still there still feel that CTT was pushed out by another set of idiots in hte admin and BOR.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
War Eagle then...
And congrats on your outstanding recruiting class at Auburn this year. Chizik looks like he’ll be able to resurrect the program in short order. Pulling that “Region” kid out from under Sabans nose, classic sign of an elite recruiter.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 19, 2010 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I too am surprised by him
top 5 recruiting class this year. Auburn looked medicore last season but if he can bring talent like that to Auburn, they are gonna make some noise for sure. But where was all of this talent when he was at Iowa State? I know its Iowa State(and not a knock agaisnt them. I am actually kinda looking foward to watch them play next season) but if he is a great recruiter, Iowa State would have had SOME talent, you know?
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 19, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Tough to pull talent to Iowa State?
It’s the heart of the issue isn’t it. Really comparing apples and oranges, so past doesn’t necessarily predict the future, at least not well.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 19, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Ames is worse than Waco.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Concur completely!
Chizic really surprised alot of folks….just means he picked a really good staff. Heck he’s even got Charles Barkley shuttin’ up. We’ll have to see how that translates. Hate talking this on my Tech board though! Wreck ’Em!!!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
Region pulled?
Was at the presser he didnt get the Bama offer he was trying force their hand but was told you keep looking so do we. I have never seen anyone so unhappy to be committing to play for a major college team as he was that day. I spoke with him before the announcement and he wasn’t a happy camper. Bama only has about 16 schollys to give this year and Saban has this thing about commitment actually means you’re done looking.
I just remember him saying he loved the "family" feel at Auburn.
Interesting that you were at that presser though.
"Winning isn't everything"... Bob Knight
by raider realist on Mar 23, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Realist...let's keep your name true...
if his sign on has “bama” in it…and it doesn’t have the word “Beat” in front of it…well….take a very deep breath before you read the post…what follows will stink to high heaven! The only reason a bammer would be here is becuase they are pi#%ed off that CTT took Willis from them. The only “presser’s” bammers have been to this year were held at Walmart!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
So the bottom line for you is, the new guy has his work cut out for him
But you still hate Leach.
Check.
John Hancock
Please tell me your serious.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
by TTUMAR on Mar 19, 2010 4:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Feel free to thumb through my fan posts since October.
For every fanpost you find that Mentions Leach and does not pay homage, acknowledge my admiration for them, or point out his achievements I will buy you one Glen Levitt at the Spring Game.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Another fun fact (not meant to feed any standing deabte)
Last October PlanoJef actually prophecized that all this stuff would take place. Here is his comment in regards to an October 27th post comparing Leach to Moses, leading us to the promise land:
PlanoJef-
“Funny thing however,
Moses never actually got to go INTO the promised land. They went into it without him per God’s orders. So does that mean someone else gets to take us over the hill into The Land of Canaan. And they accuse we Catholics of not reading our Bible:)”
He saw it in his head!
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
blackbeard knows its friday but
Will use third person thursday anyway and will forever only listen to planojef. We sir are not worthy
"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach
by blackbeard on Mar 19, 2010 4:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
wrecn totally forgot about 3rd person thrusday
but planojef see far into the future…scary. :O
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 19, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
wrench*
gawd…cant spell my own handle
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
by wrench_raider on Mar 19, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't remember reading that until I read it.
Yeah, that’s spooky. And yeah, PlanoJef is a witch (warlock?) and we need to hunt him down and STOP HIM before he curses another coach.
I think I even know where to start looking...
There’s a Jeff, Indiana. All we need to do is find a guy named Plano there.
I see what you did here.....that's funny.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Funny twists on this thread.....
My gut and eyes tell me ctt is a conventional and political coach. I don’t think that will take us to a level beyond where leach has taken us. I think he was the best choice after the cluste$&@8k we went through. I hope I am able to replace my gut with history with ctt and that I am dead wrong. I am not the type that will say something just to try to convince myself of a position. Hoping for the best.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 19, 2010 8:09 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I am also quite certain we
Are destined to decline offensively and will have to make it up defensively and st. I think that’s doable, but think it’s unrealistic to think otherwise.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 19, 2010 8:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I have been a part of this blog for a few months only
so I don’t know the history of the type of posts and the general perspective of the group…which I have observed to be fairly small.
The constant attemp to analize the past in college sports as if it is somehow a reasonable predictor of the future is baffling to me.
Mike Leach was reasonably successful as a college HC, it is reasonably acceptable to think he could continue to do that at whatever position he could attain.
The exact same statement applies to anyone who has been reasonably successful as a college HC. The risk of success vs failure is probably constant.
Tubs is a different guy, he has reasonable acceptable success as a colllege HC. I have no idea how that translates to say next season, my thought here is that there is an element of writers on this blog site who will look at next season as a definition of the success of the new coach. Personally I almost expect a lag in performance as a result in the coaching change. That is the norm from what I have generally observed across college football. That is not definitive to the long term success of a coach’s long term success….it may be a while before we see the success we expect want, have seen, desire, need…..then we may get our highest hopes realized, that the new staff will perform some kind of amazing transition that results in a 10 win, 9 win, or some other form of great season.
No one really has any idea, not even the HC who is doing his best to create a great program for TTU football…whether he can or not….it all comes down to buy in, from players fans and every kind of ‘support.’ He has appealed to any and everyone to help, that is something I have never seen from any coach at TTU, my first was J.T.King….not one looked at the success of the program from such a holistic perspective. There is a great opportunity in our laps, a very great opportunity, it smacks of something I did not see at the time but was real as Martha Sharp built a great legacy of respect and accomplishment for women’s basketball…it is very similar and very different…whatever the similarities or differences it remains, a great opportunity in front of the Raider Nation to help build a program that is superb…superb.
I think the offense will be almost a projection of past season’s offense…without regard for who is coaching. The defense is the side of the ball that is undergoing the greatest change even with an outstanding transition plan.
Whatever the daily results, the opportunity is the same, great fan support, and great coaching on the field under the felt leadership of a fine HC will lead to a growing football program that can result in real hardware for the trophy room.
I am currently about as drunk as I can be and still write…a great party for a bunch of retired folks in my driveway tonight…so I am loose and free with my thoughts and words. I hope I am not offensive, LOL.
Good night and God Bless you all !
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
Well played sir!
Regardless of the alcohol content!
I, too, am cautiously optimistic and believe that the risks with this coaching hire are minimized because a good coach, in general, will stay a good coach. I know Leach will be successful whereever he winds up because he is a good coach. Just as I believe CTT will be successful because he is a good coach. I don’t know if we get to a championship game, but I cannot imagine with the tools we have and Seth has so diligently detailed, that we don’t have a successful season. Only time will tell.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
Offensive...no, in need of pithy posts, yes.
:)
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 20, 2010 3:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Here you go !
pith off…is that what you meant ?
;-)
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
I just meant the unibomber manifesto was less wordy...
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 21, 2010 4:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sorry if I made it too difficult to get through.
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
It's okay.
Oldschoolraider is still learning how to read.
He’ll get there.
by Damien Franco on Mar 22, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Now that you insulted me, do I now have to make fun of your Avatar?
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 22, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, let me be quick to say
that I have no reason or intention to insult…and it is not the firs time that I have been discribed as verbose…or perhaps pithy…a great word in its own right.
I write what comes our of my head, sometimes with my efforts to define what I am wanting to say, I put in tooo many words…which some folks recognize as pith….
Lord I do love to play with the words !!!!
women should put pictures of missing husbands on beer cans
He writes what he saw in his head!!! Love it!!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
Crap!
Who read that to you?!
You shouldn’t worry about anything I say anyway. People only take me serious on photography forums.
by Damien Franco on Mar 22, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't kid yourself......
they think you are joke over there too :)
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 25, 2010 6:16 AM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean that we don't want to see the
Glamour shots you took of KWash……
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 25, 2010 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Easy......
Those are limited edition print and high dollar. There ain’t no free lunch.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
Mixing apples and oranges…
I believe that comparing Tubs and Leach based on recruiting and conference positional ranking is not conclusive statistically. The SEC and Big 12 have different philosophies, top to bottom strength of teams, and recruiting regions. First, the SEC, because it’s a run first conference games are closer and teams that are evenly matched can lose/win a number of games by a touchdown or less. Second the strength of second tier teams is stronger in the SEC, and third, outside of Texas, SEC has a larger recruiting region.
"doing what is right is easy…the problem is knowing what is right"
I agree there are signifigant differences between the conferences.....
but given that every poll in the country, and for that matter every college fan in the country compares teams and coaches of all college teams, across the country, regardless of conference differences…..I think we are safe to do the same here.
"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach
Leach did more with less...
I believe you are right that Leach did more with less. Leach was better and more innovative offensively than Tubs was defensively. In other words, Leach won more with his offense than Tubs did with his defense. The last year for both coaches are telling. Both had relatively trying times. Leach was 9-4 with a better defense but unsettled offensively particularly at qb and to a lessor extent the ol. Where Tubs was 5-7 with a fairly good defense but the offensively was non-existant.
"doing what is right is easy…the problem is knowing what is right"
Also, while both were under duress from
Powerful alums and had made moves to improve their ‘weak’ side of the ball. I hope I am wrong that ctt will have to shed looking like an empty suit. I hope the year off gave him the missing element that led to his au demise.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 20, 2010 4:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If you see that as hand wringing..sobeit.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 20, 2010 4:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess I'm with ya oldschool...
With my AU history and love of the Red Raiders, this change really excited me at the beginning. Then I started reading London and SARR and TTUMAR and now I am pinballing between excitedly motivated, cautiously optimistic and nervously apprehensive. My main worry now is that I watched CTT attempt to implement a new system without the proper tools and wind up losing his job over it. That was on one side of the ball. And now he is faced with the same thing on the other side of the ball. I can only hope that his defensive prowess can translate and be easily learned and effectively executed. Here’s hoping!!
Wreck ’Em!!!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
-Benjamin Franklin.
GAGREED.....
Lets hope CTT puts any conerns to bed and we can be as comfortalble with what he brings as we had with Mike.
" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me
by oldschoolraider on Mar 20, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
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