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Texas Tech Depth Chartin' :: The Receivers

Previously on Texas Tech Depth Chartin' :: The Quarterbacks :: The Running Backs ::

Overall: I'm personally of the opinion that this is as talented and deep group of players in the Big 12. Biased? Absolutely. The entire receiving corps loses only one significant player from last year, Edward Britton, and returns virtually every contributor from a year ago. When trying to put together these depth charts, I always run into issues when trying to project past the top two players, and would even suggest that I have a problem projecting the top player. Take the inside receiver spots, H and Y. Towards the end of the year, Zouzalik was clearly the starter and Swindall was in Leach's doghouse for a bit. My rational for starting Swindall over Zouzalik is nothing more than I think that Zouzalik should take over Lewis' spot next year and be an absolute beast. Not to mention, I still believe that Swindall has a tremendous amount of potential and now it's up to him to do something with all of that talent. In any event, the point is that all of this is incredibly fluid, especially with a new coaching staff. I fully admit that there's a certain amount of futility with trying to designate positions for players when there hasn't even been a practice, but this is the sort of thing that's fun.

Lots of good discussion after the jump.

Star-divide

H Receiver

Player Ht/Wt Year Probable Role
Tramain Swindall 6-3/180 JR Possible Starter
Cornelius Douglas 5-9/193 SO First Backup
Adam James 6-3/215 JR Compete for Second Backup
Benjamin McRoy 5-9/160 FR Redshirt

Who Is Gone: No one.

Who Is Still Around: Tramain Swindall: As mentioned above this could easily go to either Zouzalik or Swindall, but it's Swindall for now. I really like Swindall's ability to break open games and he probably has as much, if not more, talent than any receiver on the roster. Swindall has the potential to absolutely explode and be a game-changing reciever. I'm guessing that Leach's biggest problem with Swindall was consistency. It's about working hard to get open each and every play and I would imagine that Swindall had a tough time figuring that out, which is why Zouzalik passed him on the depth chart. Swindall was one of the players that supported the Leach termination and I'll find it incredibly interesting if he takes advantage of the new coaching staff or if he'll continue to think he's entitled to play because of the talent.

Cornelius Douglas: Douglas saw a few snaps last year, especially during non-conference play and was also worked into the quarterback position of the Wildcat formation that Leach liked to use, again early in the season. Douglas is a gifted athlete, but he had the propensity to drop passes (I think he also did this in last year's spring game) who played quarterback and in the secondary. Perhaps this is just a case where it's taking some tiem for Douglas to adjust to the receiver position, but he needs to find a spot on the field relatively soon, otherwise he could eventually get passed over by equally as talented players.

Adam James: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. No comment.

Benjamin McRoy: McRoy should greyshirt this year, or if some scholarships open up, it may not be such a bad idea to get him in the system. Ben shouldn't see a second of action this year.

Y Receiver

Player Ht/Wt Year Probable Role
Detron Lewis 6-1/205 SR Starter
Austin Zouzalik 6-1/181 SO Possible Starter
Aaron Fisher 6-3/182 RS FR Backup

Who Is Gone: No one.

Who Is Still Around: Detron Lewis: If there was a year for Lewis to shine, it's this year. This isn't to say that Lewis didn't have his moments, but his performance was just too inconsistent last year. You can blame some of all of the receivers troubles on the inconsistent quarterback play, but a player of Lewis' talents should not have a game where he only has 1 catch for 11 yards. I do think it's fairly amazing to watch Lewis' progression through the years as he has morphed from a nice sized reciever as a true freshman to the size of a running back on the inside receiver spot. At 6'1" and 205 pounds, he's about as big as Batch and now he just needs to play like it. Typically, this receiver spot has been played by Eric Morris and Danny Amendola and they've been awfully productive. I think Lewis adds something a little big different, which is the ability to run over players (at least he should) with his size. I'm torn as to whether or not Lewis' weight gain is beneficial as it may also be a factor in not getting as open as he did in 2008, but this is his opportunity.

Austin Zouzalik: Again, I could easily see Zouzalik starting over Swindall. Zouzalik truly turned it on towards the end of the year last year. In fact over the last three games of the season, Zouzalik averaged 69 yards and 4.6 receiptions a game. Slowly but surely, Zouzalik has forced himself onto the field towards the end of the year. One of the reasons why I think that Zouzalik stays at this Y Receiver position is that this is the same position that Eric Morris and Danny Amendola had so much success during their last year and I think that it may not be a bad idea to have Zouzalik, who might be one of the most dependable receivers, to continue the succsss at this position.

Aaron Fisher: A lot of folks projected Fisher to be an outside receiver because he had so many game-breaking plays in high school, but the current staff and the former staff both wanted fisher inside. Fisher was always known as somewhat of a technician in that he is a very precise route-runner and has excellent hands. I think that Fisher (along with Celestie and Ward) are somewhat forgotten, but they shouldn't be. Fisher has tremendous talent, the sort of talent that you're shocked he doesn't play sooner. When he hits the field, he's going to be good.

X Receiver

Player Ht/Wt Year Probable Role
Lyle Leong 6-1/165 SR Starter
Eric Ward 5-11/202 RS FR First Backup
E.J. Celestie 5-11/174 RS FR Second Backup

Who Is Gone: Edward Britton's reign on the X receiver position is over. This should be a difference maker at this position, and I'll be interested to see if Leong and the rest can make plays on a consistent basis.

Who Is Still Around: Lyle Leong: Leong actually out-performed Britton as Britton slowly devolved from a receiver that was supposed to open up the field, to a merely average receiver. Leong though does have plenty of talent, famous for that leaping ability that makes him a good target for quarterbacks and a tough cover for a lot of defensive backs. I think I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Leong's hands. And this isn't to say that Leong doesn't have his fair share of drops, but he's a darn reliable receiver that just happens to be an athletic freak of nature.

Eric Ward: When Ward entered the program last spring, there was quite a bit of discussion that Ward would immediately force himself onto the field. Ward's biggest criticism coming out of high school was that he was not a consistent route-runner and that apparently held him back this year. There's no doubt that Ward is a terrific athlete and a tremendous talent, but it sounds as if its the little things that Ward needed to refine during his redshirt year.

E.J. Celestie: This is the exact type of player that Tuberville wants. A speed guy that's probably a bit raw. The one thing that I noticed when watching his old high school film was that he's absolutely explosive, but he goes down awfully easily and doesn't run over players. That's something that Celestie can improve upon and I wouldn't necessarily look for Celestie to play this year, but he'll get a shot soon enough, perhaps in the return game.

Z Receiver

Player Ht/Wt Year Probable Role
Alexander Torres 6-2/196 SO Starter
Jacoby Franks 6-1/185 JR First Backup
Derrick Mays 6-0/166 RS FR Second Backup
Shawn Corker 6-1/183 FR Redshirt

Who Is Gone: No one.

Who Is Still Around: Alexander Torres: One of the best freshmen in the country last year returns, but Torres has some competition. Torres isn't as gifted athletically as his competitors, but he is incredibly consistent. I think I'd prefer to have more of a game-breaker at this Z-Receiver, but Torres gives you a big target that seemingly gets open game after game. And despite not thinking that Torres a huge playmaker, he still finished with over 12 yards per catch. Not bad.

Jacoby Franks: I'm not real sure what to think of Franks to be honest with you. In high school, Franks was a true deep threat and the type of receiver that you would have thought would be taking over Crabtree's old position. But with Franks, is a consistency issue (I think I've said that before). He has all of the talent to be a difference-maker, but he's been passed over on the depth chart by Torres. I'm going to be very interested to see how Franks adjusts to the new coaching regime.

Derrick Mays: This is one player that I haven't seen a lick of video. What I've been told is that Mays is a world-class athlete with speed to burn. Legitimate 4.4 speed (which is very good). The one thing that interests me is that it appears that Mays hasn't put on any weight (the weight listed above is from the current roster). Maybe someone else can give some insight as to Mays' ability.

Shawn Corker: Corker is certainly a player that has the ability to make a difference. I don't know that he plays a down this year, but that's okay. I'm hoping that he absolutely tears it up on the practice squad. Aside from Ward, I think that Corker is the other young player that can eventually become a play-maker for this team. I credit Corker's commitment as a part of the Crabtree-Effect, i.e. that it was Crabtree's success that led Corker to consider Texas Tech.

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Just get them the ball and change the light bulbs on the scoreboard

To me, this crop is one of the finest we have had. Torres, while perhaps not the most gifted, plays with gamechanging heart and no fear. Leong – what a beast -“but he’s a darn reliable receiver that just happens to be an athletic freak of nature”. I don’t know how many readers caught the post about his performance in the B12 Indoor high jump, but he was very near 7 ft.

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Mar 5, 2010 6:36 AM CST reply actions  

here it is

Men’s High Jump
6. Lyle Leong 2.10 (6’-10.75")

FREAKIN AWESOME

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Mar 5, 2010 7:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Brown must think he died and went to heaven...

Loaded doesn’t do justice. Leong and Lewis alone would be too much for a d….the key is to have a qb that doesn’take us look like an intramural offense.
Fired up for the spring game.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Mar 5, 2010 6:59 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

+1 for Karam

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Mar 5, 2010 7:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 7:08 AM CST up reply actions  

It's hard to comment on such a great write up.

Great job Seth!

I feel like a lot of our talent is sitting at the Z Receiver Position. Call me crazy but that is a solid group of receivers.

My personal preference would have to be -

H – Zouzalik / Swindall ( Alternate and keep a fresh set of legs on the field. This is a great place to put the ball in a bind.)

Y – Lewis ( I’ll belive this will be his best season to date.)

X – Leong ( Absolutely the best for this position. Alamo Bowl Game. Excellent awareness of the ball when in route. Holy S*** he has ups! )

Z – Torres ( Incredibly reliable. Consistent. Gets the job done. Reminds me of Amendola. )

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 7:08 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed about Torres/Amendola

Torres (in my mind) was the most reliable skill player on the team last year.

by TheScarletandTheBlack on Mar 5, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Torres One to Watch

I actually think Torres is the best receiver we have. It certainly is a talented group, but I think Torres had a break out season, and I think he will have several 100+ yard receiving games this year. He won’t be the top receiver, but I think he is our best all around receiver. Man I cannot wait for the season. Go Red Raiders.

by Btech on Mar 5, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

The receivers are so evenly matched up in talent level it’s got to be hard for any D Coord to game plan against them. I think this the recruiting advantage Tech has built. You now have kids looking at our depth chart to determine how they can fit in here in Lubbock. If its indeed what Tubs was talking about when he said .." it’s what we can recruit to.."(meaning our brand of spread attack) then yeah it’s a real advantage. The third string freshmen are dangerous to an average defense . It’s going to very revealing if Coaches Brown , Cumbie and Mainord the younger, can get enough reps, film, highlights to continue the recruiting edge Tech has garnered. I recall a couple of year ago the Texas Monthly Mag staffers saying.. "Tech has made a business out of recruiting and coaching up the runty and less talented.." it’s apparent that is not the case today. It’s very gratifying to see the 6’3" – 195 pound high school freshman enrolling at Tech.

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Mar 5, 2010 7:15 AM CST reply actions  

Reason to be Excited!

Seth – You nailed it. Consider this: If a team is really, really talented with d-backs they maybe have 2 strong cover guys. It’s just a very difficult position to develop. Most teams would have 1 really strong cover guy and 2-3 more average players.

Now mix and match any starting 4 receivers and tell me which 2 you’re going to focus on! You can’t do it. Any of these guys can be game changers. And that doesn’t account for what Batch can do running or catching the ball out of the backfield.

Can’t freaking wait for next season!

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Mar 5, 2010 8:23 AM CST reply actions  

Torres and Zoo

Its nuts not to have these two guys on the field at all times. They are great hands. The way Zoo gets upfiled after the catch is Welker like and both guys just have that it thing with the hands. Since Crabs I have really enjoyed watching how certain guys just have a gift to instantly grab the ball when it hits their hands, the strength and power of the hands. Not easy to explain but I think you guys know what Im talking about.

It should be a great year and I think all the young men appreciate being treated with respect and a bit of disipline. Im a bit down on the shirt and tie routine but being ontime to meetings sounds like a good way to run a program. Talking about pirates and buried treasure might be good for 60 Minutes but I dont think twenty year olds with homework and beautiful Tech girls to chase care to wast their time learning about swords

by Gus Mitchem on Mar 5, 2010 8:47 AM CST reply actions  

Depth!!!!!!

Leach was able to build great depth here and in fact, as much as I hate it I think we are better without Britton as he regressed last year. I agree Torres and Zoo should be on the field most of the time. For what ever reason I also believe Swindoll/Lewis didn’t hugely progress becaue of issues with the HC(not sure what or why) because they weren’t to sad to see him go. Anyway, these guys should be great and Brown should thank his lucky pirates everyday that he has real wr talent and probably 3 deep!!!!! Wreck’Em Tech!

by techgolf44 on Mar 5, 2010 9:05 AM CST reply actions  

Britton?

Oh you mean Edward Brickhands?

Guy was talented, no doubt, but it seemed like he gave up too much. I think we’re better without him too.

by TheScarletandTheBlack on Mar 5, 2010 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Seth, great breakdown....

The cabinet is full gents. With the undeniable upgrade we now have on the defensive side of the ball, we only like one thing. An Air Raid QB. Will the real Tech QB please stand up…please stand up…please stand up.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 9:19 AM CST reply actions  

lack not like...

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually "like" works there too

We do like our Air Raid QB’s. Any any others we don’t particularly like. So the statement works either way.

IMWTx

by imisswesttexas on Mar 5, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Not good enough Yet?

The receivers are very talent but last year these receivers were inconsistent. This group was just good enough based on last year play and losing four games. Seth said it best when describing Detron Lewis performance "but his performance was just too inconsistent last year. You can blame some of all of the receiver’s troubles on the inconsistent quarterback play, but a player of Lewis’ talents should not have a game where he only has 1 catch for 11 yards". How many times did we see inconsistent poor play from this group of receivers, all the drops, no receiver open to throw the ball to even from defense that have a history of not being able to defend the pass. I for one would welcome the new year to see if this talent group will transition the air raid from good to great performance

by double-t on Mar 5, 2010 9:42 AM CST reply actions  

Actually, if I think about it...

we saw inconsistencies accross the board on offense. The O-line was giving up sacks left and right, the receiving crew had alot of bad play, and the QB play has been well documented. Combine all this with the distractions in the locker room and I don’t think it is a stretch to say that Brandon Carter’s recent comments about Leach being off last year may be a contributing factor. Leach was the OC. We have talked at length on the “buck stops with the coach” line of thinking. Sure the players play the game, but we have to wonder why all phases of the offense were inconsistent last year, and recognize what coach was ultimately responsible for their play. The same scrutiny would have been given to Ruff, and has been given to Ruff in the past. This is no way is another Leach bashing comment. Just simply connecting the dots. If the entire offense struggles, the OC has to receive scrutiny.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

But Monkey!

Fun new game for me. Anytime I see a post by you about Leach I will be searching for the “but monkey” a few sentences in.

For example:
I love Leach, and I’m not bashing Leach, and I wish Leach was the coach but (BUT MONKEY!!) his offense sucked last year, and he was an idiot, and all of his players hated him, and the dots are connected. (Of course I am exaggerating BUT MONKEY!!! you get the point)

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL.....

Point taken. Nothing can be Leach’s fault, check. I knew I should have just replaced his name with “offensive coordinator”, and I almost did. Maybe we should avoid using any coach’s given name in favor of their title, for a period of two years. This way we can disect their play as objectively as we do the players.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Good idea

BUT MONKEY!!!, it wouldn’t be nearly as much fun…

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I share many of your sentiments and observations about

the receivers last season. Getting open, catchable balls, quitting on plays, frustrating me and other nice fans. Grrrr !!!

I am counting on them getting better during the off season…everyone of them.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree

Lots of lack of effort in 2009. Seems like when Crabtree left he took all the talent with him. Britton had nothing to offer last season. What a waste of talent. The kid had great speed but no work ethic on the field. Detron is good but I wouldn’t say great. He displayed some greatness in the past but never has really stepped up to his potential to lead this offense. Too many dropped passes by the majority of these guys last season. For me I only see one guy that really stands out and that’s Torres. The others are talented but still remain a work in progress. Hopefully Ward gets a shot at some real play time this season. I wouldn’t mind seeing all these guys having to earn a starting position rather than assuming we have any solid starters. It’s vital we have consistent realiable receivers in 2010.

"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach

by Raider1992 on Mar 5, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Plenty of talent to light it up.... Is there a leader in the group?

This is my only concern…
What was the “issue” with James, Swindoll, sometimes Leong, sometimes Lewis, maybe even sometimes Britton…?
Was it just something with the old HC? (If so, it was with Riley as well…)
Who’s going to influence and lead this unit? And in what direction?
Everyone has a fresh start with the new coaches…
I’m looking forward to many performing up to their potential… If so, we are in great shape…

Aside: Britton was always solid blocking, which doesn’t show up well in the box score… With our talent, we won’t really “miss” him, but I appreciate what he contributed over the past 4 years…

by Houston Raider on Mar 5, 2010 9:46 AM CST reply actions  

+1 on blocking

On all tech receivers

"There's going to be ups and downs but you have to enjoy the battle." Mike Leach

by blackbeard on Mar 5, 2010 9:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I cant count how many times Easy Ed..

.. Britton sprung another receiver for 5 – 10 yards with a leveling down field block. We will miss him in 2010.

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Mar 5, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm...

With our loaded depth, I would be tempted to use someone like Zouzalik or Swindoll to hop around all 4 receiving positions throughout the game to throw opponents off-guard.
+10 Win/Win Situation

Starters:
Y: Lewis
X: Leong
H: Zouzalik——I think I’d prefer moving Zouzalik into that position
Z: Torres

Again having guys like Jacoby Franks, Zouzalik, Swindoll and even our loaded RS-FR squad as back-ups or “Joker Mystery receivers” that prop up wherever anytime in the game will be a blessing for us in the long run if our offensive coordinator knows how to use them right.

by SkyBlade on Mar 5, 2010 10:26 AM CST reply actions  

I'm a big Alex Torres fan.

He was clutch all year, hardly ever dropped passes, absorbs big hits like a sponge, and towards the end of the year, you could tell we were looking more and more to him to come up with the first down or short touchdown grab. Incredible to think he did all this as a freshman….and we have 3 more years to look forward to with this kid.

Got a chance to meet his family and had a few beers with them at their Alamo Bowl tailgate. You’ve may have seen their huge Alex Torres tailgate tent at the games last year and all 15-20 family members in AT shirts and jerseys. Really good people, and you can tell a lot about a kid’s character based on his family.

Not to mention he transfered from the Air Force Academy, which is a huge accomplishment just to get into, and had to battle his way back from injury coming into last year.

Did I mention I’m a big Alex Torres fan?

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 10:31 AM CST reply actions  

Excellent.

Amazing how deep we are at WR. We will be in every game.

by VirtuaCory on Mar 5, 2010 10:47 AM CST reply actions  

Exactly!

And to think that somebody questioned our receiving corps recently. Said person was adiment about everybody else’s group aside from Tech. Bat. S***. Crazy.

We’ve got depth and a lot of it. We are solid.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Quote from battledome last month in response to my claim that Tech would win more than 7 games next year:
News flash: our receivers suck and we just graduated our best linemen on both offense and defense.

by battledome on Feb 15, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

That's right.

I forgot who said that.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

And I stand by it!

Give me Hicks, Filani, and Johnson over these guys any day! And no one has yet answered my challenge to rank this bunch of receivers in relation to Crabtree, Welker, Filani, Johnson, Ammendola, Morris, or any of the other studs we’ve had playing for us.

They’re small, slow, and over-rated. Ugh… okay… I’m out of breath… but you get the point!

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Does that mean

You didn’t like anyone Leach recruitted. That who they are.

"I find I'm so excited. I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitment only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope." Red-Shawshank Redemption

by cweber7377 on Mar 5, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Name one player in my list that wasn't recruited by Leach...

and we missed on Dez Bryan, AJ Green, and Julio Jones. I would be much happier if our current WR depth chart even featured one of those guys.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

have to actually agree with you for once

or maybe twice. The players you mentioned above were play makers for sure and definately had more horse power. I do think Tech has some of these caliber guys waiting to start but the current group less Torres is not even close to those guys.

"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach

by Raider1992 on Mar 5, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I like Torres, but he’s not a real #1. I’m excited to see what Eric Ward can do. Word is, he’s the real deal… and he’s of a more solid body type than, say, Lanky Leong. A 20’ high jump will get you nowhere if you’re giving up 20 lbs to the cornerback across from you.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Filani, Johnson and Hicks

had major attitude problems. I’d take Torres, Zoo, and some of the young guys (Ward seems to have his head on straight) over those 3 any day.

Of course, they would have fit in well with some of last years crowd. That locker room in Houston would have turned into the prison riot scene in Natural Born Killers.

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

and Leong. I'd take him too.

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

You thought Filani had an attitude problem?

That guy had nothing but heart. He’s my favorite Red Raider of all time.

I’ll give you Johnson and Hicks, though. They were a tad prima dona-ish. But, they had double-digit touchdown years under their belts. Remind me… which current WR has one of those?

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Filani was probably a little better attitude-wise than Johnson or Hicks

but he wasn’t a leader. He had more raw talent and size (Leach called him “Moose”) than virtually any other receiver we’ve had. But he never took it to the next level. He had some nice years and a few big games (Holiday Bowl, Insight Bowl) but could have been much more.

Welker had nothing but heart. Filani never lived up to his potential.

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I liked Filani's play his senior year.

Both Hicks and Johnson left me disappointed.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

After one season?

Your throwing this class of receivers under the bus after one season? A season in which the entire offense struggled to produce? I think your assesment would be more accurate if you simply stated that you would trade the entire offense of 2008 for the offense we put on the field for 2009. And I think we would all agree with that, based on their performance. But to assert that this receiving crew is some how less talented as a whole, IMO is untrue. This crop of receivers coupled with Harrell and the 2008 offensive line is just as good if not better.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus 100 Sir

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Mar 5, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok... let's just agree to wait and see what happens.

I’d be thrilled to see any one of the above mentioned receivers gain 1,000 yds and score 10 TDs… but that wouldn’t even put them in the top 8 receivers from the Mike Leach era.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

very well, until then my firend.......until then.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

And to be fair....his original quote was
our recievers suck

Which is flat out, absolutely, unarguably, definitely WRONG.

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus 1M

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Mar 5, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Bazinga, I agree.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

by what criteria is it wrong?

We throw the ball 75% of the time, and we don’t have a 1,000 yd receiver? The marquis receiver going into the season has a game with one catch for 11 yds (as mentioned above)? We don’t have a single receiver that would be the #1 for A&M, OU, UT. That means

we have the fourth best squad in the division!
And, yes, compared to previous years… that means they suck.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem is IMO.....

You think the fault lies with the receiving corps, and I think there is just as much if not more scrutiny to be placed on the QB and offensive line play in 2009. Are you under the impression that receivers typically do not skip a beat even in the face of declinign play from O-Line and Qb’s?

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I would add....

We rarely if ever have receivers that would be #1 for A&M or UT. Surely you understand that these two schools have perpetually outrecruited us and have bluechip players at every position. Most of their back-ups would be starters at Tech, at every position. This is as true in 2010 as it was in 2008. the difference is wait for it……….we do more with less.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Who does more with less?

I think that train is sitting in Key West bellied up to a bar.

by Damien Franco on Mar 5, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh Damien, we know you do.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Amen, brother...

Spike Dykes had a long history of doing less with less before the Dread Pirate came to town.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Is that how he became the winningest coach in Tech history till 2009?

While I am no Spyke era piner, I do have luch every thursday with a former Spike QB, and former Tech asst. coach. According to them, we have been doing more with less for a lot longer than you two suggest, and forgive me if I side with the guys actually doing the work on this one. A&M and texas was out recruiting us just as bad in those days, yet Spike was able to steal one now and then. By defenition, doing more with less.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

No one said anything about good..

I said he did more with less. I.E. he consistently beat teams who had better recruits. Again, did more with less. This is a Texas Tech tradition, not something exclusive to Mike. Mike as he stated after claiming the record, he built on what Spyke had started.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I seem to remember consistently losing to the likes of UNT...

winning a few trap games every now and then does not constitute “doing more with less.”

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Another comment about the Dykes era.

When Leach became HC, he got as part of his package a huge increase in recruiting budget. I forget the numbers, but I remember thinking wow ! Apparently Dykes did what he could with what he had. I hold had Dykes had more support from the school, he would have won more games. He was an outstanding coach for TTU.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

I remember Dykes was also limited on the team travel budget during the season. For an away game at Arizona the team had to fly out Saturday morning, not Friday afternoon which is common practice. Not a restful night of sleep when that happens. Also, they limited the number of walkons using Title 9 as an excuse when no other school in the SWC and then Big 12 followed any such limit.

"I find I'm so excited. I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitment only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope." Red-Shawshank Redemption

by cweber7377 on Mar 5, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I am certainly happy

that we making more effort to compete, it will pay off for the University in the long run.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll give you that...

the qb play was spotty which was compounded by problems at OL… AND the fact that the rest of the Big 12 got wise to our screen game in 2009.

However… rank this crop of of WRs in comparison to any of the Tech receivers over the last decade. Who are they better than? Who are they bigger than? Who are they faster than? Who do they run better routes than? I can’t think of very many answers to those questions.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Go back and watch some games from 2000-2006

I loved ’em all. Mickey Peters, Nehemiah Glover, Trey Haverty, Carlos Francis, Anton Page, Cody Fuller, Amendola, and all the other better know names (Welker, Crabtree, Morris, etc).

Collectively, the current group of receivers we have are as good or better than most of those guys (excluding Welker and Crabtree). This is probably the best “group” of receivers we’ve ever had.

Don’t throw stats out because it’s impossible to compare results from different years. "If’ we had the 2008 roster and they played in 2009, we would have been in the NC game…

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

The answer to your question is an unqualified yes... :)

And if it weren’t for the stupid Sooners, we might have won it in 2008!

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem with your comparison

of our recievers to A&M, OU, UT’s recievers is also tied to the fact that we spread the ball out to more recievers than any of those schools. So, no….we may not have had one stud like Crabs or Hicks this year that broke any recieving records, but we do have a stable of equally lesser studs that keeps the engine lubed.

I agree with a notion that was brought up somewhere earlier on this board that you could even make the argument that having multiple modest threats is beter than having on huge threat because it keeps the defense honest. If I’m a DC I would rather face a team that has one All-American than a team that has 6-8 recievers who share their receptions. How do you prepare for that?

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's end it right here...... Distribution

Let’s review receiver production from say 2002-2009 shall we? I’m only going to post 100+ yard production.

2002 Receiver Production –
Taurean Henderson – 633 yards 6 TD
Wes Welker – 1054 yards 7 TD
Mickey Peters – 749 yards 8 TD
Neimiah Glover – 673 yards 10 TD
Carlos Francis – 632 yards 7 TD
Anton Paige – 565 yards 7 TD
P. Hartfield – 271 yards 1 TD
Foy Munlin – 206 yards 1 TD

2003 Receiver Production –
Wes Welker – 992 yards 9 TD
Mickey Peters – 895 yards 10 TD
Carlos Francis – 1087 yards 9 TD
Taurean Henderson – 528 yards 6 TD
Neimiah Glover – 965 yards 8 TD
Jarrett Hicks – 485 yards 4 TD
Johnnie Mack – 233 yards 1 TD
Cody Fuller – 178 yards 1 TD

2004 Receiver Production –
Trey Haverty – 1019 yards 6 TD
Jarrett Hicks – 1177 yards 13 TD
Neimiah Glover – 660 yards 1 TD
Taurean Henderson – 286 yards 2 TD
Cody Fuller – 505 yards 0 TD
Bristol Olomua – 259 yards 5 TD
Johnnie Mack – 186 yards 3 TD
Joel Filani – 310 yards 2 TD
Danny Amendola 119 yards 1 TD

2005 Receiver Production –
Robert Johnson – 951 yards 4 TD
Taurean Henderson – 528 yards 5 TD
Joel Filani – 1007 yards 8 TD
Jarrett Hicks – 850 yards 10 TD
Danny Amendola – 395 yards 3 TD
Bristol Olouma – 309 yards 1 TD
LA Reed – 136 yards 0 TD

2006 Receiver Production –
Joel Filani – 1300 yards 13 TD
Robert Johnson – 871 yards 11 TD
Shannon Woods – 572 yards 2 TD
Danny Amendola – 487 yards 5 TD
Eric Morris – 347 yards 1 TD
Jarrett Hicks – 334 yards 2 TD
Grant Walker – 264 yards 0 TD
Todd Walker – 214 yards 2 TD
LA Reed – 157 yards 2 TD
Ed Britton – 131 yards 1 TD

2007 Receiver Production
Michael Crabtree – 1861 yards 21 TD
Danny Amendola – 1177 yards 5 TD
Eric Morris – 690 yards 9 TD
Ed Britton – 583 yards 4 TD
Shannon Woods – 138 yards 2 TD
Aaron Crawford – 218 yards 2 TD
Grant Walker – 309 yards 2 TD
Kobey Lewis – 167 yards 0 TD
LA Reed – 189 yards 0 TD
Lyle Leong – 163 yards 1 TD
Detron Lewis – 101 yards 2 TD

2008 Receiver Production
Michael Crabtree – 1135 yards 18 TD
Detron Lewis – 869 yards 3 TD
Eric Morris – 682 yards 8 TD
Baron Batch – 442 yards 1 TD
Trimain Swindall – 528 yards 2 TD
Shannon Woods – 330 yards 2 TD
Ed Britton – 490 yards 4 TD
Lyle Leong – 199 yards 3 TD
Adam James -0 159 yards 1 TD

2009 Receiver Production –
Alex Torres – 806 yards 6 TD
Detron Lewis – 844 yards 6 TD
Baron Batch – 395 yards 1 TD
Tramain Swindall – 694 yards 5 TD
Lyle Leong – 571 yards 9 TD
Austin Zouzalik – 469 yards 2 TD
Ed Britton – 388 yards 3 TD
Harrison Jeffers – 218 yards 1 TD
Jacoby Franks – 313 yards 2 TD
Adam James – 154 yards 1 TD
Eric Stephens – 113 yards 1 TD

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 5, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

At the very least....

this shows that we spread the ball to more recievers than any other year….so while there might not have been a single standout, we shared the wealth more.

Considering we went through 3 underclassmen at QB and more uncertainty at signal caller than we’ve had in the last decade, I’d say this group of recievers (minus baby james) handled the adversity incredibly well.

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok...I'm a moron...

Please change my previous statement to:

At the very least…. this shows that we spread the ball to more recievers than any other year….so while there might not have been a single standout, we shared the wealth more.

Considering we went through 3 inexperienced QBs and more uncertainty at signal caller than we’ve had in the last decade, I’d say this group of recievers (minus baby james) handled the adversity incredibly well.

by 2001Raider on Mar 5, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

haha... no worries...

you’re right… the qb play was a big deal… but having bad qb play and having bad wr play aren’t mutually exclusive, y’know?

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

The wealth was spread a lot more, you are correct.

Distribution was a key factor in us not getting beat to death, as far as coverage goes.

Even though our QB play was all over the place, we still managed to get the ball to as many people as possible as many times as possible. Which will win football games, can’t stress that enough.

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Mar 7, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Funny-my mind jumped to charts when I saw those stats. Like Pavlov's dog.

And I drooled a little too.

Graphing that would just give us another example of what an absolute bad ass Crabtree was. His numbers jump off the page.

We’ve been fortunate to watch some really good receivers over the years, but he truly was special. As if anyone didn’t know that already.

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Before I read anyone's thoughts I am dumping my own.

So following Seth’s order, because I am responding more to his comments:

I consider 1 and 2 essentially the same, I want 2 deep with rotation (kind of in general) so there is always a fresh guy ready and a change of pace for the defense to have to adjust against.

H is the spot where I like short and shifty:
1. Zouzalik; 2. Douglas; 3. Mays; 4. Celestie (if Douglas is not able to step up, Mays should be hot on his opportunity, if neither, then they are simply not who we think they are. I put Celestie here because I think he is an IR, he is last in this group because he looks thin, can he handle the physicality?) Zouzalik has the stuff to lead the pack at this spot. However, I really would like to see 2 through 4 step up and force Zouzalik to Y behind Lewis.

Y is the spot that looks most like TE
1. Lewis; 2. James; 3. Fisher (Lewis is the best at Y, I think he can be the best on the field, James is a TE, he needs to be here, maybe more splitting time with the 3rd guy, Fisher is well positioned to be heir apparent, he has the size, needs the experience.) I am very tempted to put Zouzalik here also, behind Lewis, that would make life difficult for defenses as a 1-2.

X is the field stretcher.
1. Leong; 2. Swindall; 3. Hawk (Leong is boss, he is clutch, Swindall can make a great 2nd and Hawk could be such a deep threat) I could easily see putting Swindall behind Lewis at Y….ooooOOOO ! I don’t know if he is tough enough to do it…or even if he will play football.

Z is also field stretcher and the automatic fav for a right hand qb.
1. Torres; 2. Franks; 3. Corker (Torres took the role from Franks and I am still disappointed in Franks, Corker needs to develop to inherit this spot)

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 11:19 AM CST reply actions  

Can the Raider offense live up to its potential? Clearly depth, hands, speed and sheer consistency of product are trending upward. How does this measure up to performance on the field? Is it right to expect 40 x point 5 x aerial Td’s and 400 yards per game by this group every game? It sort of feels like the beginning of a race butter flies and pent up energy waiting to be uncoiled at the gun going off. The level of just pure excellence in execution is potentially dynamic for 2010. The receivers are as good a crew as have ever walked onto Tech practice field top to bottom – knowing the bottom tier /3rd string hasn’t caught a pass yet. But it feels like this group is ready to break out doesn’t it?
The receivers are the barometer of the team as they go so goes the product delivered. Is it wrong to expect a superb year out of this group?

"do routine things routinely"

by centexraider on Mar 5, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I like your review Tall Mike

I always needed an explanation of the different positions. But ther is one problem, don’t you know that the Y spot 1a receiver is AJ? Hasn’t that been made clear by his all knowing daddy? I think we will hear more of him in spring practice. LOL.
Wreck Em!!!!!

"I find I'm so excited. I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitment only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope." Red-Shawshank Redemption

by cweber7377 on Mar 5, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Where does Ward fit?

"doing what is right is easy…the problem is knowing what is right"

by jdhud on Mar 5, 2010 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL ! I forgot to place him.

He should be at H. Short and shifty. He is tall enough to go to X, if he is fast.

So, with the crowd at H, let’s slip him in ahead of Hawk, unless Hawk comes back…in that case see who falls out and who sticks.

Sometimes a river boat can out run a pirate ship.

by TallMike on Mar 5, 2010 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Awesome

Loving how deep we are at our skill positions. We got playmakers everywhere. Detron is gonna go out with a bang this year. Torres introduced himself to us last year, he has his coming out party this year. Leong is a hoss and will only get better this year. Swindall will make his prescence know this year. I look at Zoo,Franks, and James(eww) to see a lil bit more playing time. I like to sub in receivers, keep our guys fresh, and the defense on its heels. Sloppy play last year gave us 9 wins, here’s to great play this year and 10 wins.

Wreck’Em!

We gon rock it to the wheels fall off

by wrench_raider on Mar 5, 2010 11:37 AM CST reply actions  

Offense off?

I think its also important to remember, that even with our offense being off. Our limbo of quarterbacks, receivers dropping balls left and right, and clubhouse mayhem. There are a few important things to remember

Tech finished ranked
4th in Total Offense
2nd in Passing Offense
9th in Scoring Offense

and 9-4, ranked 23rd in the Coaches Poll and 21st in the AP poll, higher than both USC and Oklahoma.

Sure we would have had 2 more wins regular season and a BCS bowl had we kept Sticks around, or maybe even kicked a field goal, but that doesn’t take away from the season we already had.

Guns Up! These receivers being even more experienced are going to demolish the Big 12 and their young secondaries all across.

by aggieraider on Mar 5, 2010 3:11 PM CST reply actions  

I like your style

"I swear, I'm gonna stab you with a fork."
-Gerald Myers or Kent Hance

by San Antonio Red Raider on Mar 5, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

No 1000 yard reciever last year.

Had one every year since 2002 but last year. That means we’ll have two this year..Torres and ?

"doing what is right is easy…the problem is knowing what is right"

by jdhud on Mar 5, 2010 6:02 PM CST reply actions  

Or maybe we just stole a 2011 QB commit from Texas today and we are going to be just fine

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 5, 2010 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

The kid is 6'0" and 175...

Texas offered him a grayshirt opportunity. Saying that we stole him from UT is a bit generous. Scout.com rates him as a 45. If this is the future of Tech football, you can have it. I’ll stick to my nostalgia.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Could be mistaken

but im pretty sure he led Lake Travis to a state championship this year. I like champions. And furthermore, Lake Travis is 5a isnt it? Ennis (Graham Harrell’s HS) is only a 4a.

by RdrPwr on Mar 5, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Scout

Will not rate anyone until the season is in progress, so their rating is not important.

TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

by TTpilk645 on Mar 5, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That's good news...

I still think saying that we “stole” him from UT is too much. Again referencing Scout, UT isn’t listed as one of his offers.

by battledome on Mar 5, 2010 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

He was Mike Leach's first choice for a QB in 2011.....

and obviously the new staff concurred. Here at DTN we are all freakishly educated in Tech football, but again i have t defer to the coaches actually doing the work. if you you know a Tech coach with more success at picking QBs than coach Leach I’d love to hear that nostalgia.

"We have a running game at Tech......sometimes we throw short passes." -Mike Leach

by TTUMAR on Mar 6, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

My 9 year old daughter

Can see that we are as loaded as KWash in Cuna at wide receiver. We never have had this depth…..never.
Kick AJ’s ass off this team….and you improve the receiving group greatly. Go back to the Baylor game…..they got after potts and he was god awful. I admire the kids grit, but that was a leach miss.

" I crammed 4 years of Tech into 5"- me

by oldschoolraider on Mar 5, 2010 8:44 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Good analysis, Seth.

I think that many are overlooking Detron Lewis. My hunch is that he will be the go-to guy this year as he rediscovers his game. Despite what all the other receivers bring, Detron is my choice as the main man this year. But, like everyone else, except for the eternal pessimist battledome, I also think this year’s group of receivers can be the best all-round and deepest in terms of ability that Tech has ever had. Numbers were down last year, but much of that is attributed to less than stellar play from the quarterbacks. Some of the drops were simply because the ball was not in the right place. some were just poor concentration on both ends. We should see a much more focused and explosive group this season as the receivers all step it up. That means the starters will need to be spot on or lose their position, as I feel the new staff may be quicker to make changes with as much talent as there is that is available…maybe not directly in-game, but game-to-game. These may be the strongest positions of the whole team for 2010. Therefore, I am not the least bit concerned with the receivers. Ecstatic, maybe. But not at all concerned.

TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

by TTpilk645 on Mar 5, 2010 10:38 PM CST reply actions  

I too think Lewis will have a great year

I believe his hamstring was a significant contributor to having a “down” year.

by RR77 on Mar 6, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

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