Conference Realignment Chronicles :: We All Got Played
First of all Rat, you never let on how much you like a girl. "Oh, Debbie. Hi." Two, you always call the shots. "Kiss me. You won't regret it." Now three, act like wherever you are, that's the place to be. "Isn't this great?" Four, when ordering food, you find out what she wants, then order for the both of you. It's a classy move. "Now, the lady will have the linguini and white clam sauce, and a Coke with no ice." And five, now this is the most important, Rat. When it comes down to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.
-- Fast Times at Ridgemont High -- Damone's Five Point Plan
Expect a rambling mess this morning. Links will be towards the end of today's CRC. I'm upset at yesterday's events. Not because Texas Tech didn't take a stand, because Texas Tech had no other option or invite to an acceptable conference, but because I was played like everyone else. Let me explain.
Who's the Winner? University of Texas: Sitting back and taking all of this in at the end of the day yesterday, I laughed. I laughed because we all bought into the news, the tweets, the releases and the political wranglings of the University of Texas. This was so perfectly orchestrated, it's not even funny. Perhaps I need to take off my tinfoil hat, but this all makes sense in retrospect.
Step 1 :: Determine the Ultimate Goal : This was pretty easy for UT. Just by looking at the deal signed, there is absolutely no doubt that UT only cares about UT. They do not care about the conference, they don't care about the health of any other university, and they don't care about who gets pushed down as a result. I've always maintained that this UT's prerogative and I still believe that. UT wanted their own network. The idea is that if they had their own network then they controlled their own destiny.
Step 2 :: Negotiate From a Position of Power : This was pretty easy too. Everyone seems to complain about other universities having conversations with various conferences, but I'm almost positive that UT talked with every possible dance-partner that they could. The Pac-10, the SEC and the Big Ten. They had suitors in every conference and when they were sufficiently wanted by every conference, and make no mistake, they were, it was time to find someone to spread their story.
Step 3 :: Find a Willing Puppet : This was the easy part and I can't figure out if Orangeblood.com's Chip Brown (herein "Puppet") was a willing puppet or if it was consensual, but in either event Puppet was the perfect person to carry out UT's plan. The administration needed a voice, and the voice needed to be essentially and unequivocally tied to the university. Puppet's success largely depends on the success of UT and UT needed to have the information presented in a manner that wouldn't be compromised. If forced to make a bet, I'd guess that Puppet was more than a willing puppet and I'm also guessing that he's laughing at all of us right now. Maybe not laughing as hard as the UT administration, but I think he's having a pretty good time with all of this.
Step 4 :: Leverage the Other Members of the Big 12 : Texas probably knew that only Nebraska and Colorado really had another place to go, and possibly Missouri. Every other university was essentially contingent upon the decision that UT made. I do think that the Aggies had options with the SEC, but I don't think the Aggies wanted to be the university that broke up the gang. In any event, UT now needed to make sure that every university was leveraged and dependent on UT's decision. This was done fairly easily. Once the story broke, from none other than Puppet, that UT would be headed to the Pac-10 and would be taking with them, Texas Tech, Texas A&M (if they wanted to go), Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State (herein the "Hangers-On"), then the remaining Big 12 schools were effectively leveraged. With the Big Ten publicly coming out and saying that they were done poaching the Big 12 UT had leveraged Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Missouri (herein the "Leftovers"). The Leftovers were now just as dependent upon UT's decision as the Hangers-On except that UT probably knew that the Leftovers would sell their soul in order to keep some semblance to the Big 12 intact.
Step 5 :: Negotiate Like You Mean It : This was key, and could potentially lead to Texas' downfall, but UT had to earnestly negotiate with the Pac-10, so much so that the Pac-10 needed to earnestly believe that the Longhorns were committed to their conference. The Puppet tweeted this on Friday, June 11th @ 1:50 P.M.:
Texas will announce its plans to join the Pac-10 after its regents meet next Tuesday, source confirm to Orangebloods.com.
Then it seems as if the news that broke over the weekend was that at the 11th hour UT had a change of heart. The Puppet tweeted this on Monday, June 14th @ 8:35 A.M.:
Orangebloods.com: According to sources, Texas will announce as early as today that UT will commit to a 10-member Big 12.
UT came back to the Leftovers and the Hangers-On, the hold up apparently being that UT wanted their own television network with the Pac-10. I'm pretty sure that the Pac-10 was smart enough to know that giving Texas their own network would simply create a monster they wouldn't be able to control in a few short years and wasn't good for the betterment of the conference. UT knew that they had more than willing partners with the Leftovers and the Hangers-On had no choice but to follow UT. Once the Leftovers learned, through the Puppet I'm sure, that the Longhorns wanted to keep the conference alive they all jumped. And they apparently jumped to the point that the Leftovers will willing to give up just about everything in order to be a part of the Big 12. News broke yesterday that the Nebraska and Colorado buyouts would be only going to UT, OU and TAMU, but UT has now backed off of those comments. Despite what might actually happen, UT had leveraged the Leftovers to the point that they'd do whatever it took to keep their status.
Done.
Cost-Benefit: I guess I learned this while in law school, but the one thing that I take with me when talking with clients on decisions that they need to make, that most decisions in life come down to a cost-benefit analysis. I'm sure that DeLoss Dodds had more than a handful of these while making decisions for Texas. As UT leveraged every remaining member of the Big 12, played the Pac-10 like a fiddle and still came away with the biggest piece of the pie they had to consider who they were affecting and those consequences. The easy benefit of all of this is that UT would get everything they wanted and more, but there would be costs. At this point I think that the Pac-10 is effectively done negotiating with Texas and may have burned this bridge for quite some time. Texas is the really hot girl that can typically get away with flirting and teasing every guy, but at some point, the flirting and teasing get to be too much. The Pac-10 and Commissioner Larry Scott have pride and the Longhorns effectively used their position of power to get what they wanted and the Pac-10 was merely a pawn to get to the ultimate goal. The Longhorns may be the university that can get away with treating just about everyone like they're step-children, second-class citizens and / or trash, but every conference commissioner has witnessed the way that the Longhorns have treated their conference members and various conference commissioners. Those that are in power see through what the Longhorns did and not every university is relegated to being a Leftover or a Hanger-On.
Not Happy: The Texas Tech administration is clearly not happy with the turn of events, but as mentioned at the beginning, Texas Tech didn't have any singular options. LAJ's Matthew McGowan had this from yesterday's press conference from Chancellor Kent Hance:
"We don't necessarily always agree with everything that goes on, but we're part of the family, and we'll discuss any disagreements at the next meeting," he said. "That's the way it happens. I will assure you that when I meet with the family, I always tell them how I feel."
I would bet that the entire Texas Tech administration, as well as the administrations for all of the Hangers-On, firmly believed that they were all headed to the Pac-10. This is the only quote that I really need to read, despite pledging their allegiance to the Big 12, Hance made it clear that the way that UT is treating everyone in the conference isn't the way that you run a conference. No other conference has the inequity that the Big 12 currently has. And of course, just by virtue of the payouts the Big 12 will provide UT, OU and TAMU with sufficient funds that will allow the those three to afford the buyout, while the other remaining schools won't have the funds to do so. The current television deal keeps in place the current caste system.
The Mythical Television Deal: Sports Business Daily's John Ourand seems to be the only person with some sort of verification of the television deal that isn't:
But sources say FSN has told Big 12 officials that it would increase its annual payout to as much as $130-$140M per year. It currently pays $19.5M per year for the cable TV rights, a deal that ends following the '11-12 season. As part of its proposed deal, FSN has asked to take control of the conference's third-tier rights that are currently controlled by rights holders IMG, ISP and Learfield, sources said. These rights include radio, local media, third-tier TV rights, corporate sponsorships, and in-stadium and arena signage. It is not known when these rights will be available. Another important component to the Big 12's decision involves ESPN. Big 12 schools were concerned that ESPN would demand a lower license fee, since the conference lost two of its marquee schools -- Colorado and Nebraska. The Big 12 approached ESPN and received assurances that the network would not seek a rebate from its current $60M per year deal that runs through '15-16.
The $20 Million Penalty: News broke yesterday morning that the $20 million penalty to be paid by Nebraska and Colorado were going to go directly to UT, OU and TAMU. UT's Dodds denied this proposition:
"We do not have any guarantees from the league or our northern partners. There have been reports that there's going to be a special deal for some of us using penalty money or other money," [Texas president Bill] Powers said. "We were not part of that. We have heard about that. … It was not part of our consideration and we oppose that kind of deal."
Conclusion: There's a few things that I've learned through the entire process. 1) Don't believe a thing coming from the athletic department offices in Austin. 2) I will never believe anything from the Puppet, who I think has effectively ruined his reputation. He can certainly claim that he was reporting only what his sources told him, but he knew. He had to have known the consequences that he was reporting, and although he initially looked like the guy that had all of the inside sources, which he did, he was being used. 3) We're all puppets to an extent. We all fell for this and as I thought about what I would write this morning, I couldn't help but think that we were all part of an incredibly frustrating process and we were all being played.
Thoughts, comments and telling me that I'm crazy for thinking that this was all part of some master scheme that was so carefully orchestrated are appreciated.
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I thought about using
Dignan’s Notebook ( http://www.littlebanana.com/dignansnotebook.htm ) rather than Damone’s Five Point Plan, but went with Damone’s plan because it was a Five Point Plan, although I think that Dodds has a notebook similar to Dignan’s.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
All successful relationships in life,ranging from your spouse to friends,business,family,etc...
…are founded on Mutual trust and respect. If they don’t exist, the relationship won’t last.
From what I read, those were missing in the Big XII and hence was perceived to be the one major conference that was not “strong”, hence why this all began.
How has what just occurred changed any of that, and how can this new version of the Big XII remain intact without the foundation that was and still is missing??? And if anything, this negotiation has created more MISTRUST and for sure LESS RESPECT.
Exactly right. No trust and No mutual respect.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
This is like the Enron Saga
Everything that has transpired was like the first time Enron wrote down assets on the balance sheet. They told investors “this $1 billion write-down will fix everything.” LIkewise, the “new contract” that is pretty much just projections and figments of everyone’s imagination, will fix the B12-2.
The analysts (read “us”), smelled the rat and knew it was just the top layer of skin being pulled off. The trust was broken.
There are massive underlying problems in the Big 12 just like there were at Enron. Nobody believes the leadership (UT), and frankly, we’re sick of the manipulation and games.
This conference will not last through another round of TV negotiations, and UT has positioned themselves beautifully to take advantage of the next shift.
I don’t think they orchestrated this whole thing from the get-go – they were more like a big fat guy in a little skiff throwing their weight around to see how people reacted when they shifted. When they saw they could extract maximum leverage from one of their shifts, they pounced and got what UT always fights to get;
“A Fair Advantage Over Everybody Else.”
Plus 1000
“its all about me(UT) ..btw pass the potatoe salad…”
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Jun 16, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think you are crazy
The burnt orange facists pulled one of the greatest snow jobs in the history of college sports. I will forever hate UT for the events of the last few days.
The only thing you have to remember is that the Yankees are a business, and this is a Taxpayer funded University. So, my taxes actually help pay for these peoples salaries that did this and this program. If we all agree that we should have state funded schools, then certainly there should be some reasonable allocation of funds, etc.. However, in Texas the good ol’ boy network has made sure that UT and A&M get all of the money. If this was based on some type of enrollment factor or certain programs or something I guess I could live with it. However, its just based on corruption in my opinion. Our taxpayer dollars went directly to helping all of us get screwed. Its infuriating. Tell me how I am wrong… please…
when you put it like that and make us think about it that way, it infuriates me even more. i’m paying the state to screw me, and it doesn’t feel good. there are other ways i can pay to get screwed and enjoy it (and it’s even legal in las vegas).
(and it’s even legal in las vegas).
change that to “outside of Clark County (which is where Las Vegas is located)”, and you’d be correct
a funny quirk of Nevada law that most people aren’t aware of
Outside of any county
that has over 400,000 residents (which is Clark County) and any county/independent city that chooses to make it illegal.
Not that I live in Vegas or anything.
But you are correct; most people are misled and are shocked when they realize that in order to get some legal strange for cash, they have to head a minimum of about 60 miles outside of Las Vegas.
And yet, they do.
Pigskin Punditry
Follow me on Twitter
I reject your reality and substitute my own." ~ Adam Savage, Mythbusters
actually
the PUF has nothing to do with taxpayer money; it is interest off oil royalties
A&M and texas don’t get that much taxpayer money; I think the legislature gives the public universites in Texas a ridiculously small percentage of their budgets; it was around 10% when I was at A&M, and that was long before deregulation caused the price of tuition to skyrocket
you can say you’re angry about any portion of your taxes going to A&M or texas, but that wouldn’t be any different from people saying they don’t think their tax money should go to Tech
You don't think people in Mentone pay taxes on the land that the wells are drilled on?
Just stating one county in particular.
Aside from that, the taxpayers in those counties do pay taxes on the well.
If you would like a reference or link I’d be happy to give you one.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
I'd like to see that link, actually
my understanding is that the land the wells are located on are owned by texas
why are people in the county paying taxes on land another entity owns?
I believe the mineral rights and things of the like are owned by Texas.
The property and ranches they sit on are owned by different people.
Take the University 20-16 #1. Gigantic natural gas well. The owner of the land makes a killing off royalties and a small portion of mineral rights. He also has the ROW with lease roads and pipelines. He pays a small portion of land tax to the University on the interest he makes off the wells. Something along those lines. That’s how a land man explained it to me. Everybody gets rich, they just circulate the money. And no, I can’t find the link I need. I apologize.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
I didn’t saying anything about the PUF. I’m not saying that my taxes don’t go to Tech, but that is not my point. I don’t care what the percentage is, I’m just saying that when any taxpayer money is going to ut to pay for people to dick us and everyone else around, it’s pretty shitty.
I don’t know if it’s taxpayer money or money raised otherwise, they are still (supposedly) a non-profit institution that accepts plenty of outside funds and exist for the public good. we’re all state institutions here, yet they have the power to literally do whatever they please.
Thoughts
I think UT was a rational actor in all of this, and played its cards extremely well.
UT ended up with everything it wanted (for now), at the cost of revealing its true intentions to the rest of the college football world (which may or may not harm them in the longer term).
Nevertheless, as I mentioned in another post, without a firm TV deal on the table, we are merely entering into Act II of this drama.
Everyone now knows where UT’s interests and intentions lie. Now that UT’s position has been established, the remaining schools, particularly the Hangers-on and specifically ATM, will no doubt begin to once again explore their own options.
The smart move at this time is to pledge allegiance to the Big 12, take the money, and get busy working on Plan B.
My guess is that these ‘terms’ will be reworked when a hard TV contract comes along or when a firm offer is once again extended by another conference (probably to ATM).
In all of this, Texas Tech has done the best job possible given its limited options.
Just an observation, but it is interesting to me that we’ve heard from presidents and AD’s from the other schools, but at Texas Tech we have heard mainly from Hance with very little coming from Meyers or Bailey.
Hance has done a good job in all of this, and is deserving of our support in this instance.
I also couldn’t help but notice that in the end he couldn’t help but resort to giving the equivalent of ‘good cussin,’ because dammit sometimes in life that’s all you can do.
"This time it's different."
Well said
I am one of Hance’s harshest critics regarding Leach. But he has my support in this case and I do believe when it comes to politics he is savvy enough to know it’s just beginning at this point. I have to believe it’s all about alliances for Tech at this point since unfortunately we aren’t attractive enough on our own for various reasons. Since A&M wasn’t thrilled with what happened (at least their alumni aren’t) I wonder if there is any opportunity for an alliance with them???
I, like many, was pretty pissed off at the administration’s handling of the Leach firing. Which is why i’m glad they were largely silent in this whole situation, except for Hance. Hance is the only guy up there that is on par with the pricks at ut to actually deal with them and know what he’s doing.
Remember when Leach wouldn’t sign his contract and Myers almost screwed us over by kicking Leach to the curb? The “hero” was Hance. He sat down with Leach for 10 minutes and the problem was solved (temporarily it turns out). I know he can’t solve this problem in 10 minutes because the magnitude and players in this situation are much, much greater, but he is the guy i want out there playing the sleezball political game for us because he is a sleezball politician.
+11ty
because I only like sleazeball politicians when they’re arguing for my cause…
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Jun 16, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
He may be a sonofab*tch,
but damn it he’s OUR sonofab*tch!!
.
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
LONDON.....
Please tell me what Hance did other than being the last holdout by half a day or so. What exactly did he do for our school that the rest of the hangers on won’t get. I would have even accepted if he held that press conference and stated that we had to take the deal but that ATM had no reason to get more than Tech and that Tech regrets the way the PAC was treated.
He would then get an attaboy from me….but stating that we are a perfect fit with the Longhorn conference SUCKS.
"Life is short, tell me how you really feel"- me
by oldschoolraider on Jun 16, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Its a fair question Old School
(By the way, asking me to defend Hance is kind of like asking Mike Leach to defend Craig James, but I’ll do my best.)
1. Tech never had any leverage in negotiations with the Pac-10 or in determining the eventual outcome of the Big 12 Lite.
2. Unlike the the other lemmings in the conference, by witholding its support Tech made it very clear that it was unhappy with the Big 12 Lite arrangement – something no other school did.
3. In those final hours, I can only presume that Hance was trying to orchestrate some sort of game plan with at least Oklahoma State, as had been rumored, which ultimately fell through.
4. In tone and in action, Hance made Tech’s discontent about the Big 12 Lite very clear . Hance’s actual words were quite restrained, and that says alot.
5. Hance had nothing to gain by saying anything more. Tech will live to fight another day, With no concrete deal on the table, I am certain that Tech will be exploring alternatives and new potential alliances.
6. Hance acted like a ratb*stard in his handling of the Leach case, and totally lucked out in being able to bring in a coach like Tuberville as a replacement. His actions damanged the University’s credibility and isolated a significant portion of Tech’s alumni base. He and the Board of Regents overruled Texas Tech’s policies and procedures, breached Leach’s contract, and tried to shield the University’s misdeeds behind the dubious principle of sovereign immunity. Our University should hold itself to a higher standard. Texas Tech will live on of course, but the Leach debacle will forever remain a dark chapter in our history. Our University is and should have been better than that (see I told you I wouldn’t be able to hold it together).
Nevertheless, I give Hance full marks for being able to steer Texas Tech through this first round of the realignment process, even if we were not able to achieve a more optimal outcome, and I hope that he will continue to fight for our corner to obtain a better deal down the road.
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
NCAA, where are you?
Of all the meddling that the NCAA does, I can’t believe it hasn’t stepped in on this mess. I know it is a big machine and things only went hay-wire yesterday, but I figured they would say they were at least going to look into it. I know that this contract is entered into by ‘consenting adults’ but it is clear that the ‘leftovers’ are completely and totally getting screwed here.
Where we were a conference of haves and have nots before, now I feel like we are a conference of masters and slaves. It makes me sick. I’m sure many of you feel the same as me, but I will not longer support UT in any way form or fashion. I will watch none of their games except against TTU and cheer for them to lose every game they play. They just got on the same level as Notre Dame in my book (which is black listed).
What?
but I will not longer support UT in any way form or fashion. I will watch none of their games except against TTU and cheer for them to lose every game they play.
You haven’t been doing this all along?
Thanks UT for giving me another reason to hate, not that it was needed.
"A closed mouth gathers no foot"
Yeah, what the hell JDee???
I’m with BBDip, you haven’t been doing this all along??? Welcome to the club, grab a beer.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
isn't that the truth. can't stand sports talk here anymore, at all!
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I almost injured my wife and child yesterday
due to road rage from listening to Rod Babers talk about how UT saved the Big XII and everyone is going to benefit from their charity-like work.
My wife then put in a Mariah Carey CD to calm me down…and I didn’t mind.
Don't go to the whorn then...
A good friend of mine who is a rational Aggie (I know, I know) flat out told me if he ever saw Chad Hastings he would kick him in the balls and take his Aggie ring! No love for that guy in Aggieland.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
They're laughing down here
I was listening to them on the zone, and they were going on about how if it weren’t for UT we wouldn’t be getting the extra money we’re supposedly getting. They continued to laugh about how this is the Mack conference and the other 9… All I can say is “pride goeth before a fall”.
Two Teams in College Football
I basically have two teams I cheer for in college football: Texas Tech and whoever plays UT!
Tough to orchestrate a conspiracy
Though I am disappointed that TTU had to be tied to the UT coattails, it’s glaringly apparent we – the left over’s and worthy – though naïve – opponents – are all tied to the flaming orb known as the Orange sun. They get the hype. We get in the arena. Not to say it doesn’t sting to be thought of as "hangers on" but I think Nebraska and Mizzou initiated this drama. The Big12 officials have a job because of the UT success. The conference doesn’t have teeth or leverage to control its members. When they are pushed, they make decisions that helps their individual university. So it goes. In order to get unity of purpose the Presidents of the respective colleges would need to cede more authority to the conference leadership. They don’t want that, they want what we want, they want the benefits you get from being around the perception of being a winner. So the brand leader won this round. Time to get ready for expansion. Are you listening Big 12 "management " team?
"do routine things routinely"
Why did Nebraska want to leave
Because they were tired of being controlled by Texas and the unequal revenue sharing. So really, it does all begin and end with Texas.
My going in position is don’t sow seeds of dissension
Yes Texas is First of among equals. When you sign a contract which guarantees one party more than another and then profess it’s all about the team. Well that will grate on the “team” – the rest of the conference as you go on down the road. The fairness idea I guess was originally "be successful" and you will get more air time hence more dollars. In that respect alone Nebraska has no argument with Texas getting the bigger payout. Perception is truth so now that Texas has fulfilled its obligation i.e. won a MNC they are getting the deserved payout. I guess it’s not realistic to expect them to behave altruistically and jus t agree to an equal payout across the conference board. Like the NFL TV dollars? Or more succinctly put helping all the Big 12 schools be competitive in the BCS or other worthy collegiate endeavors (sarcasm added).
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Jun 16, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Great write up Seth. I agree that UT used its position with in the conference to better its self. However, there is one thing we can do about it. WlN! If we start beating them it strengthens our position with in the conference as well as gives us better national exposure. By doing this we will ultimately be a sweeter piece to any conference pie down the road.
by ST04 on Jun 16, 2010 7:19 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I don't think it was that orchestrated
I think texas was prepared to go to the Pac-10, but when the ‘outside coalition’ offered them a deal with everything they cold want and more, that gave them the leverage they needed against the Pac-10 to ask for their own television network. When the Pac-10 predictably said no, they could come back and claim they ‘saved’ the conference.
The reason I don’t think all of this was as neatly orchestrated as you have spelled it out is b/c the SEC’s pursuit of A&M was throwing a monkey wrench into everything, hence their threat to pull out of their annual game with us. If texas had carefully orchestrated all of this, I’d think they’d have a bigger hammer than that try to threaten us, and they didn’t.
If we had said ‘yes’ to the SEC on Monday, this whole conference would have blown up.
There is also a question of outside political influence in all of this; I can’t fathom how administrations at A&M, OU, and texas would commit to the conference just based on pie-in-the-sky projections from Beebe’s consultants. I think higher ups outside our universities may have been pushing this agenda.
I think that is a completely predictable response from you
Like it or not, the Aggies are in the same boat with the other 8 members in UT conference. UT called the shots and put enough pressure on TAMU to make sure they followed suit.
Now you don’t have to believe that, no one can make you. But if you truely believe the Aggies were working from a position of strength compared to UT, then I’m not sure what to say.
I’m pretty sure you and I both know there was NO WAY in hell TAMU was gonna say yes to the SEC and blow up the conference. Once UT made their feelings known, TAMU was stuck just like the rest of us.
Just be glad the pimp (UT) decided to pay you all a little more for your services than they are paying Tech and move along.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
position of strength?
I actually hadn’t thought about it in those terms, but in a sense, yes, A&M was operating from a position of strength.
The SEC was interested in tapping into the Texas television markets, and accessing Texas for football recruiting; A&M would give them access to both of those areas, which is why the SEC offered to let them join their conference.
Our administration is just too stupid to accept that invitation.
Beergut...
of course has no proof to back his baseless claims.
"Have a happy halftime." - Mike Leach
For anyone who’s not clear on the matter: A&M had a verbal offer to join the SEC, no matter if texas chose to join the Pacific-10 or stay in the Big 12. All A&M had to do was call. The Aggies passed on the chance to play in the best, most celebrated football league in the nation, however, and chose the safe route.
Verbal offers aren't worth the paper they're written on
Thank you to Yogi Berra for that classic.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
so
when Mike Slive came to College Station and talked to our athletic department, that wasn’t worth anything either, huh?
Y’all are reaching here.
I've met Aggies before who had a sense of humor - I work with several
But I’ve yet to come across one online. Why is that?
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
Wow.
“A&M had a verbal offer to join the SEC”
“All A&M had to do was call.”
“A&M was operating from a position of strength.”
“which is why the SEC offered to let them join their conference.”
“the SEC’s pursuit of A&M”
—do you just tell your story enough times that it becomes truth in your own head?
okay
If we assume you are correct, and A&M DIDN’T have an offer to join the SEC, how did A&M manage to get included as one of the Big 3 with OU and texas? Why is A&M able to leverage the situation and get concessions from the other Big 12 schools?
If A&M ddin’t have an offer from the SEC, what leverage did they have?
Even if you desperately want to believe that A&M didn’t have an offer from the SEC, which you obviously do, simple logic dictates otherwise.
If I'm wrong, prove it with fact and not delusions.
Even if you desperately want to believe that A&M didn’t have an offer from the SEC, which you obviously do, simple logic dictates otherwise.
Why would I, or anyone else using simple logic, think otherwise?!?!?! There is not one single reference from a media outlet, an NCAA official, even an unnamed source claiming that A&M had an offer on the table from the SEC.
So sorry, just because you’ve heard the Byrne-Silve meetings out in your head a million times and could probably even write transcripts, your opinion does not constitute fact.
To answer your questions….
Why is A&M able to leverage the situation and get concessions from the other Big 12 schools?
If A&M ddin’t have an offer from the SEC, what leverage did they have?
A&M was able to leverage concessions from UT (NOT the other Big 12 schools…none of which were involved) because CU and NU had already left the conference, and TAMU leaving for the SEC was the single biggest threat to UT acheiving its monopolistic dreams.
A&M raised. Even though it was a bluff, UT folded because they had too much to gain to take a big risk with such a meaningless school that could jeapordize their empire.
You should be glad you didn’t go. TAMU hasn’t beaten an SEC team since 1995. (See how that works….I just used a fact.)
reply
There is not one single reference from a media outlet, an NCAA official, even an unnamed source claiming that A&M had an offer on the table from the SEC.
I just gave you a link to a Brent Zwerneman article eight comments above this one? An unnamed source? How about a named one? Billy Liucci was reporting during the whole process that we had an offer from the SEC.
So sorry, just because you’ve heard the Byrne-Silve meetings out in your head a million times and could probably even write transcripts, your opinion does not constitute fact
I’ve attempted to kepp from resorting to personal attacks during this discussion/argument; I would hope you could do the same. Insinuating that I’m schizophrenic or that I hear voices doesn’t help your argument; it just makes it look like you have no leg to stand on, so you’re resorting to name-calling.
A&M raised. Even though it was a bluff, texas folded because they had too much to gain to take a big risk with such a meaningless school that could jeapordize their empire.
Ah, so now we get to the crux of the matter; you’re upset because you feel this ‘meaningless’ school has received more money and a better deal than Tech, and that just isn’t fair, is it? I think you are letting bitterness cloud your better judgement.
Here is the whole problem with your “A&M was bluffing and texas bought it” theory: texas and Oklahoma were both invited to joing the SEC, and both turned the SEC down. If texas was worried A&M was “bluffing” about the SEC, why did DeLoss simply call Mike Slive and ask if the SEC was really pursuing A&M? You really think Slive wouldn’t have talked to Dodds?
The other issue here is texas’ threat to end the rivalry between A&M and texas if A&M went to the SEC; if A&M was bluffing, why would texas even think to make this threat? Why would there be so much screaming and gnashing of teeth?
You should be glad you didn’t go. TAMU hasn’t beaten an SEC team since 1995. (See how that works….I just used a fact.)
I am well aware of the last time A&M beat an SEC school, I was there. The last four times A&M has played an SEC team, I’ve been present at three of those games. I don’t even understand this ridiculous argument made by ‘sips and Tech fans and others that we should be so scared to go to the SEC; first of all, y’all are fans of opposing teams, and y’all are just as likely to claim that we’re going to suck in the Big 12 or in the Pac-10 or any other conference we’re in, so why should what you say about the SEC be any different? If we’re going to suck regardless of where we play, we might as well make the most money doing it that we can, and that means going to the SEC.
The second issue with that “you’ll suck in the SEC” argument is that is pertains to only one sport, football. Across the board in other sports in the SEC, we’d be very competitive, ranking in the top three in some sports (men’s and women’s basketball, for example), or the best in the conference in others (men’s and women’s track). As the only in-state member of the SEC, A&M would be able to differentiate its brand from the other Texas schools, and that would help us in recruiting. Add in the fact that we would be playing against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, etc, and we’d have Texas high school recruits lining up to get a chance to play in the best football conference in America.
The third issue I have with such an argument is that it is based on fear, nothing more, and that is a weak reason to refuse to compete.
Say what you want
We all know what happened here whether you want to admit it or not. Regardless I do give Bill Byrne credit for how he conducted himself throughout and for keeping his cards close to his chest.
That said, if the SEC offer was so damn great and such a positive move for TAMU, then why the hell would they stay in the B12-10??? They made it clear throughout the process that they could give a shit about the regional rivalries so that answer won’t fly. Appears to me they just fell in line with the rest of the conference.
The main thing I see is TAMU picking up an additional 5 fans groups b/c they sure as hell are gonna get tired of handing the Ag’s money if your program doesn’t improve.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
ATM looks even worse to me if they had an unconditional offer to the SEC and stayed in the new version of the SWC...
Kind of like if Tech had an unconditional offer into the PacX and turned it down…
I think ATM would be a good fit in the SEC…
I don’t think they would be very successful, but they would fit in pretty well…
by Houston Raider on Jun 16, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
HA!
the SEC’s pursuit of A&M was throwing a monkey wrench into everything
Delusional, as always….the SEC was never in pursuit of Texas A&M….they were in pursuit of UT, OU and if that meant bringing A&M along for the ride, they were willing to leverage that as part of the deal.
the SEC wanted access to the State of Texas
Did the SEC pursue texas and Oklahoma? Yes. Would they have taken texas and OU if they had accepted their invitation? Yes. Once texas said no to the SEC, the SEC turned their focus completely on A&M, and was willing to take us on our own.
The SEC...
invite for ya’ll was no different than the PAC10 invite for Tech. They were both leveraged on UT’s agreement to come along. I’m pretty sure your administration had that figured out.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
+100000
Why the hell would a conference that has produced the past three national champions be “in pursuit of Texas A&M?”
They weren’t.
They wanted UT and OU. A&M was like the licorice jelly beans. They’re a necessary sacrifice to your end goal.
incorrect
If the SEC couldn’t get texas but could get A&M, they were willing to take us alone; they wanted into the Texas television markets, and we would give them that access.
After SEC realized UT and OU weren't interested
they considered taking A&M alone. Correct me if I’m wrong, but no offer or invitation was ever made, and in my opinion, this is why TAMU backed off from last week’s tough talk and realized they should just take their Big XII money and obey daddy longhorn.
the offer was made and on the table
our administration walked away from it b/c we have bigger idiots running the show than the Myers/Bailey/Hance triumvirate y’all have
Whatever your issues with the Leach firing may be, there is no doubt in my mind that those three would have accepted the SEC’s offer if it had been made to Tech; they aren’t that stupid.
Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for our BoR.
I agree
I think if Tech had a noncontingent offer from PAC10 or SEC we would have accepted in heartbeat. One thing about Tech is we know we have no allies.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
If Tech would have had an offer on the table
we would have accepted it the same way TAMU’s BOR would have accepted it IF they HAD an offer on the table.
Maybe not, but I do believe it was orchestrated.
Others feel the same way, that someone got played:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/06/15/pac-10-expansion-the-texas-conspiracy-theory/
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/budwithers/2012126405_withers16.html
I didn’t see these early this morning, but there are others that feel the same way. This is from the Seattle Times link:
The Denver Post quoted a source close to the negotiations as saying, “In the eleventh hour, after months of telling us they understand the TV rights, they’re trying to pull a fast one. … They want a better revenue-sharing deal and their own network. Those were points of principle. (The Pac-10) wants to treat everyone fairly. It’s been that way for months of discussions.”
So, the Pac-10: Played by Texas, or deceived by Texas? Was this good old country hardball or a sleazy, burnt-orange end run?
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Wilner makes an interesting point
everything hinged on that leak about the Pac-10 plan to pursue the Big 12 South (minus Baylor) and Colorado for their expansion plan
Think back to when it first came outt hat the Big Ten was talking about exploring the options of expansion, it came out that Beebe and Larry Scott had been talking, too, about many issues, including the possibility of a football version of the Hardwood series
If Scott is talking to Beebe, he is also talking to Dodds and other athletic directors; we know that Larry Slive and Bill Byrne had already been in talks for a while at this point
So it makes sense for Dodds to have complete knowledge of the Pac-10’s plan; such information leaking out during the Big 12 meetings would have a two-fold effect; it would make the Big 12 appear weak, and it would send Beebe into a panic; remember that he cancelled the end-of-meetings press conference.
With a conference that appears weak, you now have Colorado and Nebraska bailing, which gives texas reason to take their negotiations out into the open. The monkey wrench here is the SEC’s pursuit of A&M, which screwed everything up; this would be the reason for the fullcourt press in the media and the screaming from texas about never playing us again.
It actually does all fit, but you would have to believe Dodds is a brilliant man, and I don’t thnk he is capable of putting all of this together. Remember, this is the man who hired David McWilliams and John Mackovic, and who had the responsibility of hiring Mack Brown taken away from him.
I don’t know how the saying goes, but something to the effect of you don’t necessarily have to be smart, just so long as you hire smart people around you. It may not be Dodds, but I’m sure there’s plenty of smart people around that could have put this together.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I think it would above Dodd's pay grade
think about some of the other info that has come out, like Beebe claiming expansion to 16-team superconferences might mean anti-trust issues being examined, and Congressional involvement
there are people who think this could have changed the very fabric of how collegiate sport operated
it’s an awfully huge gamble to take just to for a few more extra million bucks
the television rights for the conference were going to come up for renegotiation anyway in 2012, so we were bound to get more money at that time. All this expansion talk really accomplished is it got that projections for what that deal might be out a lot earlier, and it got a few million extra for texas from the exit fees from Colorado and Nebraska. They were already planning on having their own television network before all of this started, so that is nothing new.
This is a fairly elaborate scheme for what amounts to a drop in the bucket in revenue to texas.
Positives and what was learned
One positive point is that UT exposed itself for the arrogant, selfish, scheming, manipulating “big brother” that it is. Also, this ordeal exposed Beebe as an incompetent puppet. We also learned that unnamed outside sources are in control of decision making. They could care less about Tech, Kansas, Oklahoma State, etc. We also learned that ATM is a house divided. We learned that OSU might be willing to partner with Tech. I am sure others might be willing to partner with Tech to secure some advantages. We also learned that trust “in the family” was broken. Trust is one of the hardest things to rebuild. I suggest the “have not” and “hang on” schools take what they learned and partner together to try to balance the power of UT. Who knows the HN and HO schools might persuade an ATM or OU to their point of view.
"Beebe's plan is nothing more than a quick fix. The duct tape will not hold forever."
Agree with your arguments
It’s time to lick our wounds, pick our allies carefully, and most of all continue the upward improvement of all our programs. TTU has one disadvantage that is hard to right and that is its isolation from a major TV market. But its counterbalance is its exciting brand of football. Even here in the south atlantic TTU football is attractive and exciting.
"It's time to get down to serious business." Tuberville
The "Leach era "brand WAS exciting...
From what little I can tell, The “Touchdown Jesus” era will change that brand and we better win or we will be less relevant, less appealing. Don’t forget, Tubby once told Ole Miss he would near leave, then shortly left, so even if we do get more wins in the short term(still hard for me to see more wins than Leach), we may be back to square one right around when this Big XII-lite explodes again…
Since the regular season ended last year till now, sure is a challenging time to be a Red Raider and makes you wonder if we had better leadership(the big three) how would things be different???
LSU
Lets just say we should all be rooting for Les Miles at LSU! If he has another mediocre season or makes another bonehead clock management decesion our Tubbs era will be short lived
Again, well put.
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Good post.
I was aiming at a bit of the same point today myself. I always felt that Missouri officials were not necessarily aiming to leave the Big 12, but were aiming to use what little leverage they had to improve their situation. Technically, it worked — they’re in the same conference, like they always said they wanted, and now they’ll be making up to twice as much in TV revenue (assuming Beebe’s numbers are right … and it scares the hell out of me that they’re not). It seemed to be going relatively well for Mizzou, but once Larry Scott (and therefore Chip Brown) got involved, Mizzou had no leverage whatsoever — Texas had it all. And you have to figure it wasn’t an accident that Scott or Brown got involved.
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
Still think there are bad feelings that need to be addressed
Bill – I agree, it did work out best for Mizzou. However, I think Mizzou officials have some making up to do with some of the other member schools. Doesn’t much matter to me and there is a sub-set of fans out there that will never accept Mizzou again.
But I think it would be best for the conference going forward if Mizzou found a way to kiss and make up with the other schools.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Governor Jay Nixon is not "Mizzou officials."
And if he hadn’t shot his mouth off (multiple times), I don’t think anybody would think Missouri did anything wrong in this scenario. Which is unfair to actual Mizzou officials. It is what it is, but the people who matter in this scenario didn’t actually do anything but try to improve the TV contract and inequality (to very mixed results).
And I supposed “If you want to blame us for getting this mess started, realize you got a much, much, much better TV contract because this mess got started” isn’t a good way of kissing and making up? :-)
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
Good points
You’re right. We should not assume the Mizzou Admin is in line with the Gov. I think your points are fair. All schools stand to make more revenue to be sure. In the end, I believe Mizzou was just being leveraged by some other schools (UT, TAMU) as the bad guy in all of this. I’m certainly not placing blame only on Mizzou, we all have plenty of blame in all of this.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions
And to be sure...
…I don’t want it to sound like Missouri is completely innocent here. They were trying to leverage the situation, and it’s very clear that, as a whole, a great number of our fans want nothing to do with this conference. That’s an issue entirely separate from how Mizzou officials handled it here, but it’s still a potential source of division.
Then again, right now almost no fans of any schools seem too pleased to be in this conference, so … unity!!!
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
From what I heard....
Missouri officials were so arrogant during the Big 12 meetings, so sure were they that they were headed to the Big 10, that when it came out that there was no Big 10 bid, no one wanted to help out Missouri, which is why they were part of the “Forgotten Five”, despite their television market.
Just a rumor I heard, no proof of its truth.
I'm going to go out on a limb and doubt this.
Of all the problem Mike Alden, Brady Deaton, etc., have (public relations, not getting stomped on by Texas, appearing alive), being so arrogant as to turn off a room full of arrogant administrators is probably not one of them. Plus there’s the whole “that story flies in the face of every public remark they’ve made for the last six months” thing.
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
def.
Mizzou fans definitely look at this conference sceptically, and after this debacle, I gotta say I agree with em. I think it’s telling that on Rock M, your poll had about 40% in favor of leaving the BigXii – 2 even if Mizzou has not other good offer.
yeah, all the “small guys” in the big12/10 got a much better tv contract that COULD be on par with the big 10+2 and sec, but look at what we have to do to get it. We get to deal with even higher financial discrepancies between the big dogs and us little fish. It used to be a bearable couple million dollars. Now it’s 6-9 million. And the uncertainties of the whole situation is what scares me even more.
I think that a lot of universities should
feel the same way. I keep asking myself how much clout the other universities really have. This is not realistic, but suppose the some of the Hangers-On and Leftovers, got together, poached the best from the MW and let UT, OU and TAMU figure things out from there.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
What angers me the most about this ordeal...
is that Texas Tech was raked over the coals more than any of the other “Hangers-On and Leftovers”. The supposed “Tech Problem” was reported repeatedly in the press, and was used to best effect as the University of Texas went conference shopping. The Big 10eleven heard the sad story of how a charitable and loving UT was prevented from playing with its AAU buddies because it had to stay home to care for its feeble little brother. Yet, the Pac 10, with great understanding, told UT they understood their predicament, and would be more than happy to assign a handicapped spot within the conference for their stricken sibling. The fact that Tech received no Pac 10 invitation independent from our burnt orange caretakers only does more support this theme.
Then there’s the bone-headed comment from the Gov. of Missouri. How many times did we have to read that little jewel?
On another note, it seems to me that the relative success of the Leach years has gone unnoticed by most outside of Raider Nation. I can’t help but wonder if Tech’s recent successes have been tainted by the manner in which Coach Leach was dismissed. Personally, I’m sure of it.
are you referring to when he compared you to Wisconsin?
I didn’t see that comment until I just googled it now.
Wow.
No wonder people were so pissed at Missouri. I knew Missouri wanted the Big Ten, I just didn’t realize their governor was so adept at sticking his foot in his mouth.
Aftermath
Spent the night chasing cute valley girls in short skirts buying them orangblood shooters………b l u r r r r r….. Woke up this morning alone in the back seat of a car with a light sword piercing my brain, ah, it’s only the sun, who’s the fool beating the drum in my head???? Oh no!!! bowels are week and watery, my tongue feels and tastes like the entire chinese army walked on it with their shoes off….. I guess I can’t die, too easy…
orangeblood shooters nevermore…cute valley girls in short skirts….M a y b e e e
Appeasement
It did not work in the 1930’s, it is only a matter of time before this all comes crashing down. This is just delaying the inevitable. I hope that the Texas Tech Administration is actually game planning for the future. Who knows what will happen in the next ten years, but if we get screwed like this again, it will only be our fault…
A caste system
I’m on board with your description of a caste system. That’s exactly what I was describing it as last night. There is NO WAY for any of the other schools to EVER get to the top of this league. Oppression breeds (even more) resentment and we’re already fractured as it is.
I think this big power play from the networks was only to buy time so that they could renegotiate on their time table. They knew they were about to have to pay through the nose to keep the rights to these conferences and it would screw up their cash flow. We’re only going to around long enough for the UT network to be born, and then they’ll have the pick of the litter. I just hope we still have a spot in the Pac-12 when the family has finally had enough of each other in a couple of years.
This is just sofa king unfair.
I feel like I’m back in high school.
"it may look like zombies destroyed it, but that's actually just Garland"
What I learned...
I’m with you Seth, I feel completely played. I gotta admit, they are some smart MoFo’s to pull this off.
So in no particular order, here are some things I learned:
1. UT has no respect for anyone but UT, period!
2. Beebe is a figure head (could’ve said worse) and is simply doing what he has to do to keep his job. But that means basically doing whatever UT tells him to do.
3. It’s NO coincidence that UT had their press conference PRIOR to the B12 presser. NONE
4. Chip Brown & UT’s interests were a match made in…Shocking how traditional media outlets and the general CFB public treated his reports as anything other than a UT mouthpiece. And that includes me.
5. Gonna see a lot from some in Aggie nation that think they somehow pulled a power play to elevate themselves to the status of UT and OU. Don’t let the money share fool you as the “Leftovers” did. They got played as much as the other schools NOT named UT.
5a. And UT knows this as much as anyone!!!
6. I’m semi-proud of our Admin for at least giving the impression of raising hell about this new deal.
7. The B12 intentionally created an un-even playing field for the conference in a matter of a few days. Congratulations jackasses.
8. Tech had better get their options in line b/c this story isn’t over. The “Leftovers” are happy now with the revenue increase, but this new structure isn’t sustainable.
9. Unless the Ag’s improve, the “Leftovers” are going to get increasingly tired of subsidizing their poor play.
Most importantly, Tech better not sign ANYTHING until the new TV contracts are in place with regard to buy-out penalties. Once they do, we are stuck.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
I agree and add...
10. UT just made this a weaker conference. We already had a knock on us that the Big 12 was not as good as the SEC and that we were also rans with the Big 10. They just booted a major strength school out (NU) which will weaken us even more on the national college football landscape.
11. Texas had better go undefeated every single year to have a shot at a NC. Taking away the Wet Dream Conference’s championship game relgates our conference champion to “the Ohio State University” status of playing our last game at Thanksgiving and then waiting until mid January to play again. The OSU got flack for that and that is why the Big 10 wanted to expand.
12. It will be hard to garner national respect for whomever wins the Wet Dream conference because if it isn’t OU or UT, the national stage won’t care.
by Red Raider in South GA on Jun 16, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
And the way the ups and downs cycle that cant be too many years away!
Hopefully Tubbs will still be able to schedule (and win) some top notch SEC or Big 10 noncons
by Gus Mitchem on Jun 16, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Tech got into B12 through politics, ATM gets favorable treatment through politics
At the end of the day, it all boils down to politics.
When the B12 was being formed, why were TT and Baylor included instead of any of the other SWC members?
Liet Gov – Bob Bullock – TT undergrad
Senate Finance Committee Chairman – John Montford – TT grad
Speaker of the House – Pete Laney – TT grad
Chairman House Ways and Means Committee – Jeanelle (sp?) – TT grad
Governor – Ann Richards – Baylor grad
Liet Gov – Baylor Law School grad
Why is ATM getting pressure to stay in he B12-2 and potentially getting paid for being a traitor?
Governor – Rick Perry – Monarchy Party – ATM grad
Perhaps Beergut is right when talking about the “outside forces.” Politics at work, boys – it’s how sh*t gets done in the State of Texas.
Still confused about the Baylor angle
Someone said this a while ago, but why the hell is anyone in the legislature conducting meetings regarding anything with Baylor. And that is not to poor-mouth Baylor. Just pointing out that they are a PRIVATE institution and our political heros are spending time discussing what happens with a non-state funded university. Rediculous.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
they are not in a position of power in politics right now
why they’re being left behind in all the realignment talks – sure they’re trying to salvage what they can, but this time around they don’t have the Gov and Liet Gov on their side.
I was banging that drum loudly when it came out that Baylor wanted to be added to the Pac-10
any politician who spends public resources to affect the athletic fortunes of a private, church-affiliated school should be tarred and feathered
least we agree on this point.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Third tier rights: TTU should not be happy about this as this would invalidate our $4.5 million/year contract with Learfield. If we lose that contract, the TV “deal” will be, in effect, 4.5 million dollars less. so that takes a ~$17 million payout down to $12.5 million TV payout, not much of a raise over the previous level.
Awful, simply awful.
Third Tier
This Third Tier thing is very interesting. Thats where Texas makes all of their money, Stadium Signage? In game sponsorships? There is no way they are going to give up that power. Just proof that the new numbers are all smoke.
by Gus Mitchem on Jun 16, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
texas
will make $8.6 million off advertising and sponsorships, but $33.5 million off ticket sales, and $22.3 million off of contributions
Third tier rights are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.
This is a huge part of
Texas Tech’s athletic budget and you’re right for pointing this out. This is a huge consideration.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
are you sure it is a huge part?
Not trying to contradict you, Seth, but some research I did turned up some interesting numbers.
Football ticket sales: $5,692,222
Football donations: $4,771,703
Ticket sales, all sports: $9,764,216
Donations, all sports: $16,829,350
Advertising/sponsorships, all sports: $4,059,691
Y’all make a lot more off ticket sales and contributions than you do off sponsorships.
If Dirk West were still alive........
We’d be seeing a cartoon with a bent-over, guns-at-his-feet Raider Red with a smiling, lathered-up, tongue-hanging-out Bevo puttin’ it to Red…………………….
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes
I've been on hiatus for a while but I have to come back now...
All I have to say is…
Eventually, that pretty girl that sleeps around to get what she wants catches an STD…
May UT be plagued with Herpes forever!
Wreck 'Em Tech!
J.T.H.
by redraidersax on Jun 16, 2010 8:57 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
braveheart
I feel like we’re in the football equivalent of Braveheart… Sad part is william wallace gets his guts pulled out and is killed…
FREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!
Wreck 'Em Tech!
J.T.H.
by redraidersax on Jun 16, 2010 9:01 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Hopefully our overlords at UT will take pitty on us lowly serfs in 3 years and takes us along for the ride, when this re-alignment talk starts up again.
We need a peasant uprising.
Seriously, when this comes around again us Hangers On and maybe some Leftovers need to get together and force UT to move with us. Individually we are weak, but together we are strong! Workers of the Big 12, Unite!
Do you honestly think the overlords at UT will take Tech along for the ride when this realignment talk starts up again? If so, you are dreaming.
"Beebe's plan is nothing more than a quick fix. The duct tape will not hold forever."
by Distant Raider on Jun 16, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
NO way
The next round won’t include Tech. It’s a fact.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Great summary Seth
We all got taken no doubt. Chip Brown’s display of yellow journalism will ruin his reputation outside of the Austin market. I used to have more dislike for A&M but I think the tide has shifted toward UT. I’m fairly sure the UT network will fail. I am also a firm believer that karma is a bitch and this will come back and bite UT. Their reputation around the country is soured and you can bet that next time the hat trick won’t be this easy. Going forward, I think it’s a reality check for Tech and others. It’s every man for themselves and these so called alliances are BS. It’s time for Tech to strive an identity. If Tech can achieve Tier One and continue to recruit in all sports, our day will come. Nobody has our back and this has never been so clear to us now.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
OU & A&M...
should take a stand and demand the buyout $ be split among the remaing 10 schools. That of course would take a huge amount of integrity.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Texas denies buyout to go to Texas, A&M, OU only
But I don’t think that should stop A&M and OU from demanding the buyout dollars get split evenly between all the schools. Give UT a taste of their own medicine.
That was a great run down, Seth C. I am not sure I agree with your overarching conclusion, though. Maybe it is because I’d like to believe that the Pac10 was not played like a Fiddle. But the thing that makes me not believe in your conclusion here is the influence of these “un-named” people from Andy Katz report. He makes it sound as if people woke up to the fact that Texas was leaving and decided to stop it. Also, with the legislature getting involved.
It seems like if there was a conspiracy here, Texas wouldn’t need unnamed people of influence and the legislature to put the brakes on the matter. They could just do it themselves.
Also, if your theory is true, then not only was the Pac10 played, but also most every other BigXII school. Would Texas really do that to them? Would they really lie repeatedly and openly and directly to all these other schools? You certainly have more experience with them than I, but that seems really doubtful to me.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Yes, they would really do that
And the people behind the scenes were used by Texas to achieve their desired outcomes. The people behind the scenes weren’t the driving force, just more pawns in the game for Texas. And they really would, and did do it to the other schools in the conference.
Longhorn television network...
It’s no secret that UT has desired to establish their own network. In fact, this was one of the contentious issues cited by Nebraska. UT favored creating their own brand of media dissemination over a network broadcasting under the more inclusive Big 12 flag.
Reports suggest that Larry Scott made it clear that a UT network wouldn’t be in the best interest of Pac 10. If true, wouldn’t UT have been aware of that from the start? It’s this point that makes me wonder about the Pac 10’s role in this mess. In the end, Texas got what it wanted. Everything it wanted. A conference where it reigns supreme, the demise of a conference championship, more television money, and the opportunity to establish their own network. Of these goals, how many would they have realized with a Pac 10 alliance?
If the Big 12 collapses after the “Longhorn Network” has made its debut, do you think any conference in the nation that will refuse UT admission? No chance.
I don’t think it’s neccessary to subscribe to some malevolent conspiracy. I assure you the Burnt Orange Boys will simply say: “Hey man, it’s not personal, it’s just business.”
by ForestFlyer on Jun 16, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I recall Mack Brown saying during their 2005 run to the MNC..
..“the Conference Championship game was just an impediment (quote- .. distraction..) to their apearance at the bowl game.” Funny now right?
"do routine things routinely"
by centexraider on Jun 16, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
If I understand the situtaion correctly, Texas could make the most amount of money in the following leagues in order of money:
Pac16 with UT network
Pac16 without UT Network
BigXII with UT Network
BixXII withoutUT Network
So, Texas woul be wanting to go to the Pac16 even if it cant do its UT network. Now, things have changed because they can make a lot of money withthe “Big” “12” and UT network thanks to unnamed sources and unnamed TV channel.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
texas would have made more money in the SEC, which would have allowed them to run their own network
The schools in the SEC all get a piece of the conference television pie, but can make their own media deals on the side, too. This is why Arkansas and Georgia and Florida can make more off of television revenue than Michigan or Ohio State.
texas has been pursuing their own network for a long time now, so this wasn’t a secret. I was suprised to see them say no to the SEC b/c of their academic arrogance, but I was honestly shocked they were looking so hard at the Pac-10 b/c it meant they would have to give up their television network.
When the Big 12 came up with this new 10-team deal to keep the conference together, texas went back to the Pac-10 and said we want more revenue and our own network, knowing the Pac-10 would refuse, which is just negotiating in bad faith.
IIRC, Texas wasnt gonna get its own TV deal with the previous BigXII deal. So, the Pac10 TV without UT deal was better than what it was gonna get.
But magically this great deal pops up out of nowhere.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
no, texas was still going to get its television deal in the Big 12 regardless
they were the one reason we don’t have a Big 12 network, b/c in 2007 they wouldn’t agree to it, b/c they wanted to set up their own network
I've probably gone a little bit overboard
but it all seems to make sense. I linked this above, but found this after posting and prior to my lunch break:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/budwithers/2012126405_withers16.html
The Denver Post quoted a source close to the negotiations as saying, “In the eleventh hour, after months of telling us they understand the TV rights, they’re trying to pull a fast one. … They want a better revenue-sharing deal and their own network. Those were points of principle. (The Pac-10) wants to treat everyone fairly. It’s been that way for months of discussions.”
So, the Pac-10: Played by Texas, or deceived by Texas? Was this good old country hardball or a sleazy, burnt-orange end run?
And now Chip Brown is saying that the Pac-10 wanted to leave out OSU and UT saved the day ( http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1094753 ). Makes UT look like the second-coming, right? Brown has been on top of this since the beginning and he’s just now reporting that the Pac-10 wanted to leave out OSU? Bullshit. Sounds like revisionist history.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Total Bullshit
Dodds was on the phone with T Boone when all of this went down. Their fates were shared so no white night bs.
Complete B.S.
I don’t trust this or believe it one bit. Pretty soon they’ll be taking credit for getting Colorado to PAC10, Neb to the Big10 (it was a push, not an escort), keeping ND out of Big10 and keeping the BCS structure alive. In other words, all of CFB owes UT a big thank you for saving us from ourselves. The arrogance is off the charts!!!
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
What might have happened to make Texas change its mind there would be that they knew they had this deal with the UT network and the BigXII TV contract. So, they go back to the Pac10 and say “Look, we got this deal here now all of a sudden, so if you want us you gotta give us the Longhorn channel.” That might be how that came about.
PS I agree that the Brown article is a bunch of revisionist BS. Texas is trying to do damage control.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
UT AD not that smart
UT was trying to respond to a very dynamic situation caused by the Big 10 and the Pac 10 (and, to a lesser extent, the SEC) trying to dismember the Big 1 (no hard feelings, it was just business). UT always wanted to preserve the Big 12 if possible. If not possible, then we wanted to take our Big 12 South U’s with us to the Pac 10. We chose the Pac 10 because it was possible to take the Big 12 South with us, the SEC is repugnant to a lot of us, and the Big 10/Rust Belt is kind of depressing. We vacation in Pac 10 states (I just got back from driving the PCH from LA to SF (Big Sur is sublime)) and naturally prefer being associated with the Pac 10 (rather than other conferences).
Fox, Espn, and many others did not want to see the Big 12 dismembered and stepped in to prevent it happening. UT was always quite vocal about wanting the Big 12 preserved and having the right to their own TV network.
You inadvertently came up with the perfect new name for the conference - The Big 1
And the Wee 9.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
Austin American Statemesman sports page should be required reading today
They list Texas Tech as one of the winners in this deal if you can believe that. They say because we were the last ones to agree to the deal that somehow means we have power. They also list Leach as a loser since he still isn’t coaching. Umm, relevance please…were there any coaching changes??
Also some great quotes from folks around the state and the Big 12 lite about what Texas did.
Strength is greatest Weakness
Considering the only downfall to UT footballl is their arrogance this will end up being the overdose that finishes their run of “success”
Why with the resources they still cant get their NC dreams filled, because its about on the field play. Young men with egos and privlidge dont work as hard as young men with something to prove. Spike Dykes taught us that. UT can buy the refs enough to get the conference championship, but now more than every that will be as far as they get.
A great read that makes perfect sense
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b4z5h
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
So we are not the only ones that feel this way,,,,
The dust has not even come close to settling in the Big 12 or whatever they eventually call themselves and it is already clear that Texas Tech got played in this fiasco. Essentially Texas has killed any deal that would allow Texas Tech to go to another BCS conference.
Beginning of the above mentioned Bleacher report
Spot on Seth
I feel like the pretty girl who got all dressed up for the prom, drank too much (spiked) punch and is now having to do the “walk of shame” with her high heels in hand!!
You wrote in your conclusion:
“…although he initially looked like the guy that had all of the inside sources, which he did, he was being used.”
Actully it should say:
“…..although he initially looked like the guy that had all of the inside sources, which he did, he knew was being used.”
Big difference. For me, it just solidifies the underhanded methods UT will use to destroy any semblance of competitive edge any other school shows. They and their “puppets” are never to be trusted in anything, especially when it concerns athletics.
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
...HE KNEW HE WAS BEING USED...
TTpilk Psalm 117:
1 ¶ O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
still trying to figure this out....
News broke yesterday that the Nebraska and Colorado buyouts would be only going to UT, OU and TAMU,
What happened to our “political clout?” Do these “state institutions” have no say as to how money can and will be split? I understand that if you are making a ton of TV appearances, then by all means, keep the cash. But to take money that is paid to the conference as a whole and hoard it? Wow….I really don’t understand politics….wait…yes I do….more power, more money….wow that was simple.
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. – Life on the Mississippi
Neither NU or CO...
should have to pay anything. It was survival and they made the right choices. It’s BS they should be penalized for getting out when everybody else was making plans to bail.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
As long as we're in conspriacy mode...
Maybe that is why UT did this. 1) it buys time for the Longhorn Network 2) It allows them time to become more powerful 3) It keeps a Big 12 conference together so that CU and NU HAVE to pony up the buyout thus milking every penny out from every single teat, and 4) they can go at it again in two to three years.
IF they orchestrated this crap, then they would have no problem ginning up more of the same when they feel they are ready.
by Red Raider in South GA on Jun 16, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
As long as everyone is getting screwed by the Tier 1 group, how about this.
According to the Big 12 bylaws, it takes a 75% quorum to make changes. Whad’ya know? 75% of the remaining conference just got screwed. That same 75% is pissed because they know it’s just a matter of time before they get royally screwed by the same forces that led to yesterday’s fiasco. Ah, but what can you do?
I’ll tell you what you can do. Use your hand! I’d rather use my hand than get screwed by someone that makes my blood curl!!
The way I see it, the 75% that got screwed have the power to tell UT, A&M and OK that the Big 12 is going to have equal revenue sharing across the board or those three will be kicked out. Only a couple of things can result from this. They all say buh bye, they all agree or they split up while some stay and others leave. I say odds are – they all say “fine” and leave. Hell, better to choose how to go than to be told where to go, right?
Here is why this may ultimately be better for the remaining schools in the long run;
1st – we keep our dignity and probably gain some respect in the long run because everyone knows we are pawns right now.
2nd – we would get to keep the automatic BSC bid. This is huge for that group because it means that by staying together there is no way that we get pushed into no man’s land by self interested big shots. The power in numbers theory does have merit, after all.
3rd – because we have the automatic bid, we can attract several, at least respectable, programs into the league: Utah, BYU, TCU, Houston, Boise State, New Mexico (solid TV market), etc. While this is not a power house, odds are we can still get a legit contract similar to to ACC/Big East because we are a BCS league. By Legit, I mean $ somewhere close to what we think we may get through the Big 12 format presented yesterday. And this would present a much better opportunity for Tech to get into the BCS games. Additionally – because of the overall concentration of solid teams we put together – a decent shot at getting into the NC game. Think about it. If Boise State, TCU and Utah can be so highly regarded in their current conferences – as they undoubtedly have been over the past 6 years – surely this would be considered a significant upgrade. And if our new conference is obviously better than their old conferences, I think the precedent has already been set.
4th – We get to give the finger to the Greedy 3 and show what happens when you don’t play nice.
5th – and most importantly – nobody will have us by the balls. I am very uncomfortable when someone I don’t trust is holding on to my sack.
Hey Seth - Just saw your statement above regarding the same thought. Guess this just explores it a little bit.
+100%
I like your ideas. Tech and others must consider all options. There is power in numbers.
"The Big 12-2 lives - But Tech now has a Texas problem"
by Distant Raider on Jun 16, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Communication with other universities
Can someone gather and post some suggestions on other university bulletin boards to help them envision the possibilities?
"The Big 12-2 lives - But Tech now has a Texas problem"
by Distant Raider on Jun 16, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Forgive me if my math is wrong...
Big XII-2 is 10 teams. Thus UT, A&M, and OU have the 30% they need to block anything that requires 75%?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding.
by Texas Wahoo on Jun 16, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh.
You’re not wrong. And I’m responsible for the finances at my business. This can’t be a good sign.
London Raider may have given me a lifeline.
We could convince Colorado to stay. They can’t afford the fee. Only jumped becaue they thought everyone was gone. And they give the other 7 remaining teams an 80% quorum!!
That’s what I meant to say…. the , uh , 1st time around…. right?
Dunka - more bad math!
8/11 = 72%. Not the 75% needed!
I meant Colorado + the 7 remaining teams. (you know 8/10 = 80%) I'm slow, but not too dumb.
I just sent an e-mail to Hance with an updated version of the post above, plus at the bottom I went ahead and added a previous e-mail I sent to him after the Leach fiasco. It’s as Follows:
Mr. Hance -
As long as everyone is getting screwed by the Tier 1 group, how about this for a way to control our own destiny -
According to the Big 12 bylaws, it takes a 75% quorum to make changes. Whad’ya know? 70% of the remaining conference as it stands as of this moment, just got screwed. If I’m correct in my assumptions, that number actually becomes 80%, if Colorado was simply trying to be preemptive and acted in anticipation the total collapse of the Big 12 in order to preempt the Texas legislature. As of now, Colorado may simply not have the money to follow through. Is it at all possible that they may be talked into changing their minds under the right circumstances? If so, the remaining 80% is still pissed because they know it’s just a matter of time before they get royally screwed by the same forces that led to yesterday’s fiasco. I think it’s worth a phone call at the least. Or do the bylaws allow for the vote to take place before Colorado actually leaves? Maybe we could rescind their buyout, in exchange for their vote in favor of this deal before they leave. Can’t be any worse behavior than what got shoved down our throats yesterday.
The way I see it, the 80% that got screwed have the power to tell UT, A&M and OK that the Big 12 is going to have equal revenue sharing starting now or those three will be kicked out. Only a couple of things can result from this. They all 3 say buh bye, they all agree and stay or they split up with some choosing to stay and others to leave. I say odds are they all say "fine" and leave in some package deal. Any of these 3 are fine. There is an outside chance that this provides other opportunities for Tech, like reigniting the Pac 10 talk – but that is a rickety bridge we can cross if we get there. This is about controlling our own destiny right now when it appears that we can’t.
Here is why this may ultimately be better for the remaining 8 schools in the long run;
1st – We get equal revenue sharing. (which is relative I know, but bare with me)
2nd – We keep our dignity and probably gain some respect in the long run because everyone knows we are pawns right now. (which is also relative and doesn’t pay the big bucks, but is a great bonus.)
3rd – We would get to keep the automatic BSC bid. This is huge for that group because it means that by staying together there is no way that we get pushed into no man’s land by self interested big shots. The power in numbers theory does have merit, after all.
4th – As a result of having the automatic BCS bid and keeping the BIG 12 moniker, we can attract the 4 best available programs into the league, assuming they are still available in the near future: Utah, BYU, TCU, Houston, Boise State, New Mexico (solid TV market), etc. We command some good markets with Houston, TCU, BYU and say New Mexico (as Utah is likely going to Pac 10). For bottom line purposes, they work. While this is not a power house conference, it is still a BCS conference, and stronger than the Big East or the Acc in my opinion. You have seen what a BCS conference without a Big Time program has done for the profile of Rutgers, West Virginia and Pittsburg lately. Odds are we can still get a legit contract similar to to ACC/Big East because we are a BCS league. By Legit, I mean $ somewhere close to, or possibly a bit better than what we think we may get through the Big 12 format presented yesterday. This would also present a much better opportunity for Tech to get into the BCS games. Additionally – because of the overall concentration of solid teams we put together – a decent shot at getting into the NC game. Think about it. If Boise State, TCU and Utah can be so highly regarded in their current conferences – as they undoubtedly have been over the past 6 years – surely this would be considered a significant upgrade. And if our new conference is obviously better than their old conferences, I think the precedent has already been set.
5th – We get to give the finger to the Greedy 3 and show that, even in business, there can be repercussions when you don’t play nice.
6th – and most importantly – nobody will have us by the balls. I am very uncomfortable when someone I don’t trust is holding on to my sack.
Sincerely -
David Culotta
Class of 1990
Below is my last correspondence. Just being upfront. Not apologizing – because I still think that was handled poorly – just realizing who it is that is in a position to save our asses right now.
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:58 PM, David Culotta wrote:
Tier 1 status, more specifically, the achievement of that status will be severely affected by the actions taken by this university today in regard to Mike Leach. The current actions taken with Mike Leach reflect poorly on Texas Tech and how it is managed at the highest levels. I can no longer send my money to such an abomination and by now you must realize that I am not alone in thinking this way. Unless an issue of merit is revealed that indicates that Mr. Leach deserved to be fired, which has not even remotely happened, my money and my time go to the University of Texas. The current administration has devalued the degree I worked so hard to earn by publicly lifting it’s skirt and showing the ignorance that lies beneath.
David Culotta
Class of 1990
Currently embarrassed to be associated with the baffoons running Texas Tech, and subsequently the university itself.
Math?
I like your style, but…
If we added Colorado, we would have 11. The best we could garner would be 8 out of 11 or 72.7%. That is 2.3% short of 75%.
We would need NU back as well. 9 out of 12 is 75%
UT insured that we won’t ever be able to change anythin in their new Big 3 conference.
by Red Raider in South GA on Jun 16, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I hereby motion to appoint Dunka as CFO of DTN!
All in favor?
No offense Dunka, but that was the best laugh I have had all damn day. Unintentional comedy is sometimes the best. You gotta admit, it’s too damn funny that you already sent that mail to Hance. LOL awesome
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't worry. Hance won't spot the error
We’re talking Dimmit’s own Kent “De unly one reeesponseeble fer Maaack bein farred is Maaack” Hance here.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
Sorry. I hate to fell a fellow Techsan.
by Red Raider in South GA on Jun 16, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The Break-up fee
We’re assuming that Nebraska and Colorado will each happily fork over a circa $20 million break up fee to leave the Big 12.
I think this is a big assumption.
How do you think the tax payers and alumni of these schools are going to feel about that?
It seems likely that these schools have an argument to claim some sort of mitigating circumstances due to intentions shown by UT and others, precipitating cause and all the rest? Who knows what they were told?
Given the sums involved, what’s the downside of trying to withholding or dramatically reduce these fees in court?
I sense a law suit coming down the tracks on this one, and yet another piece of the pie getting washed away.
"This time it's different."
Edits (yeesh)
How do you think the tax payers of these states and alumni of these schools are going to feel about that?
It seems likely that these schools have an argument to claim some sort of mitigating circumstances due to intentions shown by UT and others, precipitating cause and all the rest? Who knows what they were told?
Given the sums involved, what’s the downside of trying to withholding or dramatically reduce these fees penalties in court?
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
The fees are collected by the conference witholding television rights fees
Those television rights fees are paid to the Big 12. The Big 12 gives the lions share of Nebraska & Colorado’s fees to Texas, because they feel like it & try to stop them if you think you can!
Anyway, it’s not like somebody at Colorado or Nebraska cuts a check. They just fail to get a very big check the next couple of years.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
Thanks MB. But, in any event
The concept works both ways. CU/NU can still sue to recover their share.
If the conference acts prudently, once a lawsuit is filed, the conference would make a provision in its balance sheet, and withhold funds from the Big 12 schools until the lawsuit is settled. That’s a bad deal for the potential recipients.
If the conference decides to distribute funds to the recipient schools, the schools of course could use the proceeds, but then they would be on the hook if the lawsuit or settlement rules in favor of CU/NU. That’s still a bad deal for the potential recipients.
If I were running CU or NU, I would be exploring this avenue.
(PS: I’m not sure if the penalty is $20 million per school or $20 million combined. I’ve read different accounts, but have not seen the actual documents. I also believe that the payout is based on actual revenues generated, which means it could be more or less.)
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
My take
Great article Seth. I agree that we didn’t have too much leverage in all of this but what really has hurt is that wheeling and dealing was supposed to be Hance’s forte, and yet we lost that game as the spoils of the tv revenues will be divided between Texas, OU and A&M, leaving us out in cold even though we had more tv appearances than A&M. I thought if we ever had a bargaining point, then this was it and we really should have got a cut of the money that the above 3 are getting. This is the most upsetting part of the deal and Big XII is to be blamed for it as much as our administrations lack of response to this deal.
I think its a stretch to call it a conspiracy
I think UT had some hand in it but i feel like things just fell into their lap imo. The guy we hate the most just won the lotto. We need to band together with the other schools and demand that change happens. Texas Tech, along with the other 6 schools cant just take this laying down. We need to speak up and make things happen. I think its a safe bet that the powers to be for Tech are already at work, making plans for us for when the inevitable happens.
What do you call a Serbian with an insatiable desire for sweets with only one nad (in his throat)?
CHOCOHOLICINADINHISNECKDARKOINSKIVICHSKI
I haven’t the time today to read all the prior posts, so forgive me if someone else already floated this…
But what are the chances UT significantly harmed it’s future options for conference realignment outside of the Big XII? If I’m the Big 10 or SEC or whomever, I’m extremely cautious about proceeding in the future with an invite to UT seeing how they really aren’t looking to be part of a cohesive conference.
That’s not the UT end game. Even with the huge money UT could bring in to a new conference, the animosity that follows with the way they look at their fellow members (and themselves) would be enough, I think, to keep the horns at arms length.
Or is that just me trying to find the schadenfreude in all this…
That is a risk to their strategy
But it depends on UT’s endgame.
If UT wants to join an existing conference, yes, it is a risk.
If UT’s aim is to start a Nationwide Super conference, which cherry picks the Floridas, USCs, Ohio States of this world, and which gains it a permanent nationwide audience, then by consolidating it power now, UT is in a much stronger position to direct such negotiations in the future.
What UT is trying to pull off today might just be a dress rehearsal for tomorrow.
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jun 16, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
They obviously aren't interested in even pretending to be a good partner anymore
Could you see the University of Michigan or Ohio State pulling this shit on Northwestern or Purdue?
Just because the biggest guy in your class can beat up every other guy doesn’t mean he should take the time to punch every other guy each day before the bell rings. Just to show he can.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
We are definitely in the eye of the storm. We need to take advantage of the calmness an prepare ourselves for the back half of this.
by Red Raider in South GA on Jun 16, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Metaphor of the Week!!!
Not as much fun as Sigel’s Wine of the Week, but good one anyway.
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
UT
Basically they are buying time for the their network to launch and then we will hear they want to independent is successful. The new Big12-2 is on death row folks.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I agree
This year’s events are a preliminary view of alliances to come. Only within the last two year’s, debates raged on who was the best conference..SEC or Big 12. This year we have the same conference minus UN a real loss and CU a minor loss, more money …no not as much as the prima-donnas, but more never-the-less. TT needs to develop its own alliances for the next round and I don’t believe it includes UT who will look elsewhere. We need to maintain the free wheeling score from anywhere anytime offense while building a strong defense – I hope Tubbs pulls it off – if not we drop to a level that we have been before.
"It's time to get down to serious business." Tuberville
If we had another offer out there...
I would bet Tech would depart before anything is signed. I thought that the PAC10 would extend a lone invite yesterday but no avail. In either case, it’s in Tech’s best interest to find another BCS qualifying conference that isn’t managed by UT.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Just imagine how bad the officiating is going to get ! Sorry how much worse its going to get ! Add to that the sweep under the rug drunk driving and hell raising that goes on in Austin. If the NCAA has a hair on their ass they can just camp out in Austin and watch the violations
hey, get it right! he was “texting” and then left the scene to sleep it off until the alcohol, err, headache had worn off in the morning. so that makes it ok.
Oh, or were you referring to the other "non"drunk driver who was just so nervous he couldn’t walk a straight line and then proceeded to vomit in the police cruiser.
I don't even know why
There is an assumption that Tech Administrators are not happy with this, because that press conference yesterday showed me nothing except that Tech Administrators are perfectly satisfied being managed by UT.
In this case...
I just don’t see where they had an alternative. It’s kind of like accepting a guilty plea when you know you did nothing wrong.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I agree...
Agree with you on that one SkyBlage. They basically said nothing. Very lame. I understand we didn’t have the leverage to do much of anything, but at least make a strong statement one way or the other.
Or SkyBlade...
man…no one seems to be typing well today!
scoreboard
I suggest all Tech scoreboards continue to have the name of our opponents except when it comes to playing that disgusting orange colored opponent. Then it should read “vile scurvy rats!”
TV Contracts and the big three
To rehash what everyone already knows. This was about:
1) Getting the Big 12 TV contract reworked so that the payouts are competitive with other conferences.
2) UT getting its own TV network
3) OU and A&M getting its own network. (OU has already announced that it h 3 million invested in a high def center to start their network)
I submit the theory that TEXAS, OU and a&m were all in bed together on this. Points to back this up:
A&M flat out refusal to go to the PAC 10
OU’S verbal pledging of its alliance to UT
I think the PAC 10 extends offers if they think they can get A&M, OU, TECH and OSU. Forcing TEXAS into an awkward situation but A&M conveniently has no interest in the PAC. All Texas had to do was negotiate from there.
The networks knew that the price for a power 16 would be through the roof. So they stepped up to the plate and offered to renegotiate the TV contracts if the BIG 12 stayed together.
It’s all a really brilliant lesson in negotiating!!!
Just listened to Dan Patrick show
Mack Brown was on and spouted off that ut sacrificed to save the Big 12. There only purpose was to save the history and legacy of the other schools. What BS.
ut is "The Evil Empire"
F'ing lie and we all know it.
As the saying goes: Don’t piss on my and tell me it’s raining. We all know the truth. Fact of the matter is he’s full of shit if he thinks he can sell anyone that UT sacrificed anything. And frankly, if I ever see him out in Austin, I’ll flat tell him that directly.
Here’s a hint, when you call the shots you don’t have to spin anything! Get it, Mack? Just stupid.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Idea from Dunka & LR
So I started thinking about the 75% rule in the Big12. Well, I think we have a good oppty to get UT to put their money where they mouth is. Remember this quote yesterday?
“We do not have any guarantees from the league or our northern partners. There have been reports that there’s going to be a special deal for some of us using penalty money or other money,” [Texas president Bill] Powers said. “We were not part of that. We have heard about that. … It was not part of our consideration and we oppose that kind of deal.”
Well, how about Hance goes public and takes UT up on their offer to not have the penalty money divided up unfairly? Now UT would be in a position where they would have to vote with Tech which leaves the Leftover 5, Tech, OSU and UT with the ability to dictate to TAMU and OU how the money is split up.
Anyone like this idea???
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
Each time I look at the quote from powers, I feel I need to note:
“We do not have any guarantees from the league or our northern partners. There have been reports that there’s going to be a special deal for some of us using penalty money or other money, We were not part of that. We have heard about that. … It was not part of our consideration and we oppose that kind of deal.”
Emphasis mine, note nowhere in there does he say “we will not be accepting any money distributed in this way”. It’s easy to say “hey, we didn’t set things up this way and we keep telling those guys ‘keep your money’ but they keep shoving it at us. What do you want us to do? Let it fall on the ground? Then all that money would get dirty.”
I'm sure Texas does oppose that kind of deal
why would they want to share the money from the forgotten five with A&M and OU when they can have it all to themselves?
LOL. Great response.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Random Conspiracy Notes
1. I am glad that Chip Brown (The Puppett) no longer has a column in the Dallas Morning News. His greasy-haired column was simply a Horn propaganda sheet. Made me barf!
2. Hard to consider Hance anything but a sleazy politician. Much to his chagrin, he had no sayso in this matter.
3. UT equals Obama. Everything each one says is a lie.
4. How can we find out who the "interested and influential " people were who brokered the deal to keep the Big 12 together? How about TMZ?
5. IF, Mike Leach were still coach at Tech, and IF, the Raiders had moved to the west, Mike would have realized his goal of coaching in the Pacific whatever!
When will Texas A&M......
Announce plans that they too will be starting its own network or selling the right to the public TV Aggienetwork to FOX???
We should partner up with all the Air Raid schools and start an Air Raid Cable Network
If you like passing and touchdowns, we are the cable channel to watch.
Texas Tech
Arizona
Louisiana Tech
Houston
Oklahoma State
East Carolina
Leach’s next stop
Did I miss anyone?
"I can't believe I finally decide to let a girl into my life and she tries to eat me" - Zombieland
But
Will Troy stay the same (now that we have Mad Scientist Jr.)?
by TheScarletandTheBlack on Jun 16, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Prick Conference
I think they should just create a Super Mega Prick Super Conference of :
UT
Notre Dame
USC
Florida
Ohio State
This way they can cut out all of us insignificant common folk and just play each other to determine the National Champion. They will play each other 3 times to ensure their tv ratings don’t get dragged down by playing us nobody schools. And each school can make $300 million each. And for the post season, they will just play each other in a round robin of bcs bowls. Meanwhile, they can work behind the scenes to dismantle every other athletic department in the country so nobody steals any of their pie.
This will all be settled 9/18/2010.
Everybody hold on. It’s going to be a wild ride.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
spot on - Kwash
That game will be a fun one for sure. Lots of emotion and a bad time to be a 1st. year QB.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
At least we're not the only ones now...
Lot’s of angry aggies out there that hate their admin as much as a lot of raiders did after the firing. In any case, Bill Byrne leaves a threatening voicemail to some one who wrote in to explain their ‘dissatisfaction’ of the admins choice.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1657&t=6046313
Here’s the gist of the post. The original email is below with a link to Bill’s voicemail response to it.
Hey a$holes
I am a third generation aggie and class of ’06. my family and I, including many extend family members have had season tickets at kyle field for up to 20 yrs.
We also tailgate spending a lot of time and money during the fall in college station. That all ended today
We are canceling our season tickets and will never again donate to the 12th man until there is all new board of regents minus Gene Stallings, a new ad, new president (that guy is a disgrace).
Dollar bill, I hope you have time to pull your tongue out of dodds butt to read this email
Sincere regards
Richard Rogge
Bill’s voicemail – http://www.archive.org/details…oicemailJun2010
Just had to share! Maybe Bill will be looking for a new job soon?
I side with Byrne on this one
Thought the e-mail was over the line and I kinda like the fact that Byrne responded back that he’s ready to meet face to face. There is a youtube link where you can listen. I’ll find it.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
No problems
Here you go. And speaking with an Aggie friend, he thinks this is legit. Said it sounds like Byrne to him.
IMWTx
"We thought we were too good to play Texas Effin' A&M" -Leach et al
by imisswesttexas on Jun 16, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
There's only one man that can save Tech
and that’s Tommy Tubberville. Smash UT and gain some respect back and take them down a notch. And for God’s sake beat them in Austin. If UCLA can beat them 77-3 (love that) in Austin, what the f*** are we waiting for? I believe CTT can do it.
Tommy can’t do it without some help…Sticks/Nick, Baron, Red Lobster, that fratty-looking guy running the offensive, the scary looking guy running the defense, Lynnwood, all our Big Uglies, our newly arrived DE’s, and that weird looking saddle tramp ringing the bell with such intensity.
I almost forgot
I was listening to orangebloods.com with Puppet Brown, Chip today and they actually sounded concerned by Tommy’s ability to recruit and coach. They also mentioned the move of Brian Duncan to end as a problem, but totally denigrated both our offensive and defensive lines. They gave a lot of love to coach Willis and said that he had our D ready to eat nails.
All that aside, Brown, Chip is still a gigantic used douche tool…
The end game.
As you travel your road of life you will find that things like this happen. Their are people out there who are out to take advantage of you, the thing is you have to take a chance some times. We all took that chance thinking that this time UT was playing straight. In the end we, along with the rest of the minor players, got taken in by a sleazy con.
I have been taken in by the, my husband is in the Hospital / my wife is having a baby / my dad is dieing and I just need some gas money to get there story more times than I care to admit. (Never Again!). The point is each time I got taken, I was acting in good faith, so I have no regrets. I followed my heart which is not always the wisest thing to do, but it is never the wrong thing to do.
Tech, the Pac-10 and all of us here at TT nation were acting in good faith and we got screwed.
That’s life, you don’t have to like it, but you do need to learn from it.
If I knew how to cut and paste the video of the ending scene from “Sent of a Woman” here I would.
I will paraphrase Col. Frank Slade instead.
Bebee, UT, and aTm. F@#K YOU Too!!!!!
FORZA ROSSI
Hearing
Does anyone know if the state hearing happened today by the chairman of the education committee? Or did it get called off since UT single-handedly and heroically saved the conference (yeah, right…)?
I think we need that hearing more than ever now to expose what UT did with our tax dollars (as pointed out by several others above) to screw over another public university in Texas.

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