New Fan Poll
by Tech92 on Oct 20, 2011 2:08 PM CDT
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PrintThis is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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Please define the term good coach.
I think you need a not sure option to get a fair representation.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
See here for more discussion: http://www.doubletnation.com/2011/10/19/2495949/he-who-has-ears#80641401
Your request is the heart of the problem.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
If I am the one doing the defining, it's no longer your opinion that I'm measuring
It’s your thought on my definition…make sense? I want your thought on your definition.
Then are you comfortable with the definition of a good coach being one that has at minimum beaten A&M once in the last 2 years.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 20, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not comfortable/uncomfortable with any definition you choose to use.
It’s pretty simple. You either think he’s a good coach, or you don’t. Not a trick question.
Hey FriscoRaider
Do you live in San Francisco?
I’m at a meeting in Bodega Bay. Flew into Oakland. Heading back home tomorrow. Just curious if the “Frisco” was short for San Francisco.
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
No, TX
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 21, 2011 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And yet it seemed so logical…
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Actually no
A true San Franciscan never refers to his city as “Frisco.”
He didn't have to be a "true" San Franciscan
So many transplants these days. But for some reason Frisco, TX never occured to me.
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
I'll define it.
If you want to base it on his WORDS (recuiting fundraising soundbites..ect)
then he is a wonderful coach. If it’s based on field performance, decisions
on the field, he’s horrible. Recruiting great players is one thing, coaching
them up is another.
He is obviously a good coach ....... or was a good coach
Its like he’s lost that lovin feelin or something. Lots of poor decisions coming outta his camp.
"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""
The question I keep asking is...
is he the right coach for us/me/tech?
"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""
You're trying hard not to show it
but baby somehing beautiful’s dying
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Definitely think
an encore is in order. OSU game perhaps?
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
I'll be there......
but no. It was 3 of us football players singing to the sweetheart, and it was aided by vodka in my water bottle.
Well I'll supply the vodka for your water bottle
Nancy can be the sweetheart & I’m sure we can find two other guys to join you.
We’ll definitely have to track each other down this time.
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Not even if I get you premium top of the line vodka???
You should come by my roommate’s tailgate – they are by the baseball field – across from the restrooms (SO nice!). They always have awesome food & fun people.
I swear she knows everyone in Lubbock. There are always a lot of younger people there too (around your age).
Just FYI, my friend isn’t making the trip with me this time so no worries. I’ll email you my cell # before I head up so there is no more wandering around aimlessly & being stopped by a Texas Ranger twice…
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
I still don't understand the hate...
Doege threw 3 INT’s and Fumbled also. That is 4 turnover’s all due to our QB.
2 blocked field goals (missed block by the SAME player) and a 100yd kick-off return.
So who do I blame for the loss? The QB & the Special Teams.
Does anybody even think that the coaches didn’t teach them how to block correctly?
The players didn’t do their jobs, for which they were coached on, and it cost us the game.
NO Team would win the game with that amount of HUGE mistakes during a game.
Our coach has a great team, and he is in his 2nd year, doing a great job.
Hatemongers need to take a brake for a week…..
that would be "break", but then .................
just win please
"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""
by blackbeard on Oct 20, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand your point about the KS and agree but in the end we still lost to a team we usually stomp all over and the head coach is ultimately responsible for his team. Coaches are judged by wins and losses.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Used to.....
Fans would harp “pull the QB!”.
I remember when we lost to New Mexico for all the turnovers by our QB, and Leach stuck by his man.
We questioned Leach’s decision, because ultimately, the coach knew better than the fans.
Tommy Tuberville is darn good. Just believe in him.
And, this is our 1st year with a new defensive scheme. It takes time. Fans have to understand this.
I wish the viewers would go back into time, and look at the stats where our players didn’t perform.
Read the “Play-by-play” and you will see how the coaching is taken out of the game when our players fumble or throw interceptions. Players are taught to perform at their best, but they are human, and make mistakes.
And mistakes cost wins. http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2641/year/2002/texas-tech-red-raiders
You have to understand that Leach earned that right because he had most of us already buying into his coaching ability. Tuberville may get there but he’s not earned it at Tech yet. Every coach good or bad will be judged by Monday morning QB’s such as myself and even the good ones will make mistakes every now and then just as Leach did. Are we all supposed to come on here and do nothing but sing the praises of players and coaches?
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Paddle boats
"What the hell did you do that for"... Tubs Mom
by raider realist on Oct 21, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I do think that TT is a good coach.
But I am not going to believe in him.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
I believe that many of those who question that Tuberville is the right coach for TT are not Hatemongers.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 20, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it's fair that we put this all on Doege's shoulders.
We give scholarships to 6’5" 340 men for a reason and that reason isn’t to stand there.
It’s easy to pin this on the QB, but if he’s stuck running for his life trying to get rid of the ball, that’s not his fault. The O-Line needs to produce and quickly. Make your block and protect the QB. If Doege gets flushed out of the pocket the O-Line should follow him making blocks. I loved that about our old O-Lines circa 2005.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
KWash, where have you been?!
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
At the bottom of a bottle since Saturday evening.
And working around the shop.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
Well I'm glad you crawled back out!
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Our QB made some mistakes (he's Human and Learning)
He stood in a perfect pocket, and threw a “no-look” pass to his left with little velocity = Interception for a TD.
He stood in 2 decent pockets, and threw 2 more interceptions.
He didn’t hold the ball with two hands when rushed on his blind-side, which is not completely his fault.
He ran up the middle when his check down receiver was open, and then he overthrew a player at the end of the game.
ALL items that the Head Coach cannot control.
I’m not blaming the entire game on our QB.
I am however pointing out that our many mistakes by the players cost us the win.
It is a team sport. All eleven players must do their best on every play.
Only 1 player misses a block on a field goal try = blocked kick (same guy screwed up twice!)…
Team sport.
Our players made critical mistakes, we lost. next game….
go back and check the film...
the pick six wasn’t a “no look” pass… the receiver came open for a split second and then the corner adjusted his coverage… it was just a very good defensive play… I can’t speak for the other INTs, but that’s one I watched several times
I like your analysis and mostly agree but...
“Our coach has a great team”
This team doesn’t appear to know that…that is HC’s job to motivate them into believing that.
"Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck." Don Shula
Yes for now
I think he has potential and definitely does a great job off the field with alumni fundraising and recruiting which are very important IMO. Those 2 items make me think he’s good for Tech but he needs some on the field coaching performances that provide positive results against quality opponents. I don’t think we’ve seen that yet. No element of surprise which made the former coach very popular against teams that typically had more talent. The jury is still out as to if Tuberville is a good on the field coach IMO but if I think he’ll get there eventually.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Might be better suited as an assistant AD or even an AD
but then I think we have a great AD…………………..now.
"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""
by blackbeard on Oct 20, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would be a CEO AD.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 20, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a great gameday coach….does everything else vey well. Might not be a good gameday coach.
"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me
by oldschoolraider on Oct 20, 2011 6:15 PM CDT reply actions
The type of coach is also in question
Is he a "good CEO type coach ??
Or is he an X and O’s type coach??
Or is he both?? But to what degree does he need to rely on his OC and DC and ACs??
I voted that he is a Good coach but the rest of this season will call him out, one way or the other, and I hope it is for the better for the Tech fan base.
.
NUTS - Never Underestimate TEAM Strength
Tech92
Evil Genius.
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Oct 20, 2011 7:36 PM CDT reply actions
Isn't he though...?
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
I want to vote just to see what the results are but I can't pull the trigger.
Consider me one of those valued “independents” that are usually smarter than anyone else. If it weren’t for the vaunted “independents” our country would be in shambles. The “independents” always thoughtfully and carefully consider all options and are never swayed by public sentiment.
Plus, the “independents” live on a cloud and eat lollipops for breakfast.
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Oct 20, 2011 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Want me to tell you? I just voted cause I can't stand not voting on stuff...
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
I hear people can make lots of money taking surveys online. Free products too...
That is my fallback plan in case this whole corporate thing does not work out.
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
LOL
I am in the same boat.
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
Ha!
awesome! So it’s settled. Tuberville is a good coach. Glad we got that outta the way.
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Oct 20, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
And I don't eat anything that requires me to lick or suck, especially for breakfast.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
So many possible responses, so much restraint ... so .... much ... restraint ...
"I didn't get a 'Harumph!" outta that guy!"
by Yellow City Raider on Oct 21, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Mainly because I hold you in very high regard, TM. The considerate and thoughtful counterbalance to me. I apologize for my sophomoric remarks … but they’re what I konw how to do.
"I didn't get a 'Harumph!" outta that guy!"
by Yellow City Raider on Oct 21, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going there...in a light-hearted way...
That’s what she said
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Sometimes it takes a woman
to do a man’s job! Can’t believe those chickens!
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
I know that & it is appreciated
Just had to give you some grief – you don’t expect me to take it easy on you & be sweet to you all the time, do you???!!!
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
perhaps...
but then again what was that word we were discussing the other day? The one that you said wasn’t a bad thing?
Bitch?
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
Party foul!
Sure hope you’re kidding, I’ve gotta believe your mom raised you better than that!
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
Who is JK? How would I know him?
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
Well now I just feel stoopid...
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "oh crap, she's up".
I don't care what the poll says....
Tommy is NEVER going to be as impressive as half the voters here who figured out he was a bad coach in a season and a half.
"Dress good, yu'll play good. Play good, yu'll get paid good." -Deion Sanders
It's like NASCAR for coach assessment
"Dress good, yu'll play good. Play good, yu'll get paid good." -Deion Sanders
Everything is faster in Texas!
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
Damn the torpedos! I have decided to give the guy till the end of next season.
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
Or as impressive as the (over) half that figured out he was a good coach in a season and a half...
Or was that already a given before the past year and a half…?
NASCAR coaching assessment all the way around…
But seriously, why is it any more unreasonable to determine he is a bad coach in that amount of time than it is to determine he is a good coach in the same amount of time?
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Oct 22, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I think after seeing some of those other blogs/boards
that we get a bad rep here. There’s actually quite a bit of optimism, but those on the outside think DTN is Team Leach 2. Just look at some of the new guys posting and flaming everybody….
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Oct 21, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I expected the results to be more like more like 85% yes.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 21, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's how the question is worded.
Shades of grey and such.
Good coach?
Well, for me – maybe, maybe not, as with reading the tea leaves on all lagging indicators, there are trends and then there is reality. A year and a half in- the trend doesn’t look good.
If you had asked weather he is a GREAT coach you probably would have had the answer you were expecting.
If you had asked weather he was an EXCELLENT coach, it would probably look very lopsided.
Just because you are itching for people to play this card, Tech92, I will.
In the past, we had a coach who often enough was solidly in the “good coach” category, and occasionally could even be labeled as a “great coach” – hardly ever falling into the “fair” or “poor” or “dismal” categories, though he did on occasion.
I don’t see how reality supports being as kind with such labels to the new coach yet.
The best thing is that he pulls it together and sticks around if only for the stability of the program.
He has been here long enough now to where another upheaval could ruin the program for years if he were to coach himself out of a job. I am worried that this is possible.
The window to fire him and find a new guy without causing carnage to the program has all but shut. It’s in his hands now, and calling for his head is senseless. Calling for big damn improvements is the most reasonable thing we can do, as fans.
But how about this:
I would say that both the OC and the DC as well as other coordinators perform in a much narrower range from fair to good – sure, but it seems like they are on a short leash, as with the players, in other words- See question A . I think they have more potential under the surface.
Tub's rep as a "good coach" was not established with this offense
Is Tubs a “good coach”? Yes. Have the elements that made him a successful SEC coach, suited him well so far at Tech? Not so much. That rep was garnered under a totally different set of circumstances. He proved himself a winner using his Auburn-style running offense, and a 3-4 D in a league where those commonly prove effective. When the Tech job opened under less than ideal circumstances, he was told that if he wanted the job he must promise to keep the basics of the Air Raid—Tubby really wanted to return to coaching, so he took it even though it meant continuing a football approach that he didn’t trust and wasn’t comfortable with. Was he a good “Air Raid” coach—absolutely not. Did he underestimate the quality of the Big12, and the ease of transition from SEC to Big12 football? Absolutely. After a season and a half has he mastered the Air Raid and Big12 nuances? No—but he is learning; he is getting more knowledgeable—so he is making progress. Is he currently a “good” Big12 coach akin to Stoops, Gundy, Snyder and Briles? Not yet Is he worth firing? No. If he sticks around for 2 more years his [and Tech’s] transition should be complete—look to Sherman’s progress at A&M for a comparison.
Lastly—food for thought—what if Snyder suddenly stepped down from K-State and in the scramble to replace, the Admin hired Leach, out of coaching but wanted a job—but told Mike it was his but only if he ran a version of Snyder’s offense because that was K-State tradition and what the fans were used to. Under those circumstances how successful do you think Leach would be in 2 seasons? And we know Leach is a “good” coach.
But.
Coach Leach wouldn’t take that job because he knows he doesn’t believe in it, and wants to be successful.
My quantry is, if Tubby came in saying he wanted Tech to win the SEC way, so he was going to totally scrap the program and start over, so he would need lots of time; then what?
i would mind winning the SEC way
they dominate.
Texas Tech....the home of no Defense.
by I bleed Red and Black on Oct 21, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
After all the spread attack teams they play in bowl games have a 5 week layoff they do dominate
Getting back into the swing of a running based offense is a lot simpler than reestablishing timing on a pass heavy offense after 5 or 6 weeks. The long December layoff between the end of the regular season & the bowl games is advantage the team with the simplest offensive scheme. The SEC has that advantage built in. I would bet that if Oregon had taken last year’s team straight into a playoff system the week after the regular season ended, they wouldn’t have had to spend the 1st half of the NC game getting their rhythm back & they would have beaten Auburn handily.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
True about Leach but...
Leach wouldn’t take a job where he couldn’t do it his way from the start, granted, but my suggestion is hypothetical. If Leach were in that position would he be immediately successful? Tubs came into the Tech situation under the circumstances stated above—whoever the new coach would be he could not junk the winning system or there would be more fan mutiny than was already taking place—that was all reported in the press. Tubs agreed to those terms in order to get the job—the published impressions at that time indicated that if he refused to stick with Tech’s pass-based offense he could not have the job. He hired Brown to help. I feel by his early attitude that he felt the Big12 was a lessor force than the SEC and even with this unfamiliar offense he, an SEC winner, could successfully match wits with the “weaker” Big12. He was wrong on several counts and has spent part of this second season exploring solutions to make Tech more competitive though he is still reluctant to totally abandon his SEC comfort-zone (“RaiderWalk”, Auburn stripes on white helmets, etc.). He is slowly adjusting, and if he doesn’t leave after this season for an SEC opening, should make Tech a winner within 2 years.
There is
some validity to what you pose….Tubs is not a pass first guy. A buddy had the opportunity to meet with Tubs at a practice before our version of the Poulan weedeater bowl last year. He brought his brother in law who coaches hs in Florida and runs our same offense. He intro’d himself to Tubs and CTT asked how they did. They only won 1 game because they lost their qb. CTT laughed heartily and called NB over and told NB to meet this poor guy that runs his same POS offense.
I thought this was a very funny story, and showed a peak into tubs that I like. But, you do get the feeling its not his bag (Austin Powers reference intended).
Our offense appears to be set for years to come, our skill position players (and those in the pipeline) are an embarrasment of riches. If NB matures on this stage, it could be scary. I know I have been too hard on his playcalling as we get closer to the red zone…but as tech92 pointed out, we are doing quite well in the RZ for now.
"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me
by oldschoolraider on Oct 21, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Tub tried running our offense at Auburn. He brought in Tony Franklin as OC and Tech transfer Chris Todd at QB. Of course the rest of the players he had on offense weren’t much of a fit for an Air-Raid type offense and when Todd went down, so did Auburn. Tuberville fired Franklin mid-season and they went on to finish 5-7. This situation is not that dissimilar from what he has done here with the defense.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 21, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I know the history...
he definitely has the skill position players for this
"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me
by oldschoolraider on Oct 21, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
He is getting the production too
580 yards against the #11 team in the country last week. I’m not sure why he would have anything to complain about on that side of the ball.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
I am comparing what he did on offense at Auburn to what he has done on defense at Tech.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Oct 21, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Tech92
You might want to time out your poll or keep it a week by week thing. I have a feeling that Saturday night around 10:00 these could possibly go the other way along with some spirited verbage.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
yeah....
lets have a real time poll in every gameday thread. Or another state of the union gameday thread.
"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me
by oldschoolraider on Oct 21, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I give every coach who comes here a pass at Norman
We have a lot of company in getting teeth kicked in up there. They are just far and away that much better across the board than pretty much everyone they play, anyway. Much less at home with legit national title hopes riding on every game.
Yep, I had this one circled as the 1 sure L this season
What I hate is that it comes on the heels of 2 straight L’s so we’re pretty much guaranteed a 3 game losing streak. And losing can become a habit in football.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
I dislike this poll
why I dont like Tubs I dont think he is a bad coach I just know he is not a good fit here. I am also wondering if maybe his best days coaching are behind him.
I voted YES.
But I reseve the right to change my mind at the end of the 2012 season.
And I reserve the right to change my opinion on game day threads.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Several times
during game day threads, right?
"My, what big ears you have!"- Little Red Riding Hood presumably to Tommy Tuberville
Nope... we've got it locked in... you think Tubs is a good coach... it's on the record now...
We will point back to this poll at any time you may begin to suggest otherwise…. [:-)
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Oct 22, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
This is why I am opposed to social media.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
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