Texas Tech Red Raiders 27, Missouri Tigers 31 | Post Game Thoughts
by Seth C on Nov 21, 2011 8:01 AM CST
in Texas Tech Football 2011
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THE RESULT | I HAVE RUN OUT OF WORD | Not really, but I never thought that by the end of the year, I'd have a tough time with coming up with a catch phrase after "THE RESULT". Four straight losses and most likely five straight losses after Baylor, and you're looking squarely at a 5-7 record for the year, the bowl game attendance snapped and if reality hasn't already set in for the entire coaching staff, it will after next week and there are no more games or practices. I don't recall where I read it, but even if Texas Tech wins on Saturday, they're not assured of a bowl game and I think it would be best if this team doesn't go. Last week, I thought that the extra practice would be good for this team, but now I think that the crowd that appears for any bowl game will be minimal and embarrassing (I would most likely be a part of the problem by not attending) and maybe this team and staff needs to be at home for the the time being to figure out why things have gone so horribly wrong.
THE STORYLINES
TRYING TO PUT IT ALL TOGETHER | For the past four weeks, I've been trying to figure out why the offense isn't as explosive. I mentioned the last two or three weeks that I'd love to see some of the Pistol Formation and that did happen and the running game actually seemed okay (4.6 YPC) given the fact that Texas Tech is down to their last two running backs, Aaron Crawford and Kenny Williams. OC Neal Brown did have more variety in his offensive game-plan and I think that the reason why QB Seth Doege played better was because he wasn't being asked to do too much. Someone mentioned after the game that a big reason why the offense probably looks so bad right now is that the outside receivers can't get down the field to open things up and this was something I was going to get into during the offseason, but we'll do it here. I think this is partly true. I think that the big targets, Darrin Moore and Marcus Kennard and Alex Torres are all good at different things, but they're not track stars. Sure, they're faster than you and me, but overall, they do not have the speed to beat your average cornerback and cause a safety to be too terribly concerned with them getting down the field. That's a personnel problem and I don't know that Tramain Swindall or Jacoby Franks would do much to change that. I think that Brown's general thinking is that he'd rather roll with Moore and Kennard on the outside rather than Swindall or Franks because at least Moore and Kennard are bigger targets. That works when Moore or Kennard work their way open and that's not happening. I'm not sure how to change this, maybe WR Eric Ward should be flipped to the right side (Crabtree's old side) as I think he offers more as a receiver and he's proven to be this team's most consistent threat over the course of the year. Explosive plays was supposed to be a big thing this year and it was mentioned during the spring or fall and the number of explosive plays over the course of the last 6 or 7 weeks is incredibly low (I'm doing this off the top of my head,
This isn't an excuse as there are plenty of players in college and the professional ranks that seem to get open that don't have the physical gifts to be 6-4/215 and a 4.40 forty. The thing that was mentioned in the comments after the thought that the receivers weren't getting open, was that some of this has to fall on coaching, and to a degree I agree. TE Michael Egnew isn't the speediest player on the field, but he found a way to get open down the field for a fade route touchdown grab over S Cody Davis. It was a perfectly thrown ball and it was a terrific catch, but the Texas Tech players mentioned above have physical talents, but I don't know .
Perhaps this is my own stubbornness, but I cannot believe that Tommy Mainord and Sonny Cumbie aren't coaching these players to make the right cuts at the right time. That just doesn't compute. Neither does the fact that I can't accept that the defensive coaching staff isn't telling the players to make the wrong reads on so many plays. That doesn't compute either. I don't know if I can explain it because I'm not there in the meetings when those players are being coached as to the correct reads, both offensively and defensively. There is a disconnect and it's disturbing and its been happening all year long. That's the disturbing thing is that I go into the premise thinking that everyone is doing their job, but it's not happening on the field. There is a cavernous disconnect.
Additional Storylines after the jump.
STILL GUESSING | Sometimes I think I'm too tough on players, but when I watched the game, in almost every big play, it seemed that LB Daniel Cobb guessed and jumped in the wrong gap. I'm probably too hard on Cobb and he's not the only player making incorrect reads on various plays. His play just stands out to me. The defense is still in shambles, giving up over 300 yards rushing to a team that lost their leading rusher doesn't seem at all abnormal at this point. The telling statistic isn't the 300 yards rushing, but the fact that Missouri had over 6.5 yards per carry on the day, so it wasn't a matter of Mizzou simply running into brick walls and not making much of a dent, but rather the fact that Missouri was incredibly successful all day. There were 49 carries on the day and a lot of those runs were big plays made by Franklin and little used De'Vion Moore who broke off a 54 yard run. Truthfully, the score should have been worse considering Kendial Lawrence fumbled at the one yard line only to have the fumble pushed out the back of the endzone. This was actually a game that should have been in favor of Missouri by 11 points rather than by 4 and Texas Tech was lucky to have a shot to win the game at the end.
I don't know how this defense gets better last year and I don't know how it gets better in a week when it faces RGIII who may be the best player in the Big 12 this year. Sports depression.
I HAD HOPE | I don't know if it was foolish, but on the last drive, Doege seemed to be in control and I thought for sure that Texas Tech would turn this thing around and I'd be dealing with happy post game thoughts rather than thoughts that the team played better, but it just wasn't enough. I don't know what to think of Doege because when he's been good, he's been terrific, but as the season has worn on and as the competition has gotten better, I think, unfortunately, he might be showing his colors. In non-conference play, Doege has a quarterback rating of 178.27 and in conference play it is 127.70. That's significant. And in September Doege was 178.27, October he was 132.45 and in November he's at 119.58. That's regression and although you can't pin all of this on Doege, you can't help but think that he has to be better. I do think that losing RB Eric Stephens had a significant impact on the passing game. Stephens was not only a terrific runner and receiver out of the backfield, but he also had two years to figure out his player to pick up and that's significant. That's not to give anyone an alibi, but it's significant. Crawford and Washington have done admirable jobs, but Doege's been pressured more than he has during the first of the year. From 1.33 sacks per game in September, to 1.60 in October and 2.00 in November, the protection has regressed as well. I don't think that Matt Moore has become a worse coach over the course of the year, but again, I go back to the thought that there is a disconnect and we've got a full offseason to figure it out.
PLAYERS THAT SHOWED UP | I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't laud the play of some of the players, including SS Terrance Bullitt who had 9 tackles, 2.5 TFL and 1 pass break-up. DE Scott Smith who had 7 tackles and 1.5 TFL/sacks. CB Cornelius Douglas appears to be this team's best cover corner despite having played defense for weeks rather than months (yes, feel free to ask why this didn't happen sooner, but I'd be remiss if I didn't think that the offense is probably feeling the loss of his impact as he was a reliable inside receiver . . . not perfect, but reliable). Offensively, I think that Crawford runs hard and plays hard each and every play and I wish him the absolute best after Saturday. Washington, before his injury, was ripping up the Missouri defense, at a tune of 6.8 yards per carry. It was nice to see Darrin Moore get back on track a bit and I thought that IR Bradley Marquez is starting to show why he was a 4-star player coming out of high school. Again, K Donnie Carona hit both attempts, one being a 48 yard field goal into the wind, and Texas Tech doesn't have the opportunity to have a chance to win without his play.
FINDING ANSWERS | I feel like I'm doing an awful job at finding answers and as this season has progressed, I feel like I'm providing you all with fewer and fewer answers as the season progresses. I feel like on some level, I'm supposed to figure out what the answers to the problems are and I'm not doing a very good job of that. I keep thinking that we have an incredibly long offseason where I can try to ask some questions to figure out what is wrong and how it can be fixed. I know for some of you this is a simple solution, fire the head coach. Although I do think, as I said yesterday, that for the first time all year, I thought that Tuberville showed some fire and genuine disappointment on Saturday after Doege threw that interception, I'm still squarely in the camp that Tuberville will get a third year to turn this around whether you like it or not. I also think that because Tuberville showed some emotion, that he really wanted that win because I think he might have felt that a loss meant something to his career at Texas Tech this past week and I have a feeling that a loss will mean something to Tuberville when I think Texas Tech loses to Baylor this week.
Being competitive isn't enough, which is something that happened this week, but didn't happen for the previous three weeks. That's just not enough. It's not even close to being enough for me, nor do I think it's enough for you as well. I think a lot of you feel that way and you won't be satisfied with being competitive in just one of four games. I too am tired about reading how it just wasn't enough and that he's proud of the way the players competed. I don't want to think that it just doesn't go your way this week and you'll get back on that horse next week and try again. That's not enough for me.
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I had doing this but I got to say it...
the refs blew some key calls on this game too. The touchdown that mizzu got when it was clearly a trapped ball was pretty bad….
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:16 AM CST reply actions
They gave us a catch on a clearly dropped ball before that and it didn’t get reviewed.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
but that wasn't for a TD.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly TDs get reviewed.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
We didn't lose this game because of the refs.
We did get some bad calls, I think we also got some good ones.
The thing is for me, I cannot comment about something I did not see. We probably miss most no-calls, I mean I watch a game with focus on different parts of it at different times. Maybe I see a hold or a clip that wasn’t called. There is an element of judgement on part of the ref that must be exercised…sometimes we have different judgements on what the call should be.
One thing I am pretty consistent with while watching a game, I quickly decide whether the announcers have an eye for the game in my opinion. This last group spent more time filling the air with words than giving real insights to the game.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
not lost by the refs
but it contributed.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, we were penalize 10-80, and Mo 4-30.
If you want to reduce that send a note to our right guard, who consistently gets procedure calls.
The refs have to make the call ! We expect them to do it. They get paid for that, maybe even a quota ;-)
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
had=hate
need more coffee.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:17 AM CST reply actions
Had a great conversation
With a hs coach who was big on tubs, but not a zone blocking fan. Very interesting topic that now has my attention during any game. They talked a bunch about the redskins zone blocking yesterday as well. I understand the concept and philosophy, but question why we needed to switch and keep Moore. The ol has been quite a strength for a number of years. It feels like the playcalling is sideline to sideline more because of a lack of faith in the blocking?
I’m at a loss also.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 8:26 AM CST reply actions
that very interesting
i completely forgot we changed from a man to man blocking to more of a zone block.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think our scheme has changed...
Lead only ran to running plays. Inside and outside zone.
by PBK on Nov 21, 2011 2:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Changed to zone blocking
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
I saw your comment yesterday and will try to address that in the offseason. I am waiting a little bit just in case it becomes a moot point if Tuberville fires assistants so I don’t want to waste too many words on something that may not be applicable.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I cannot finger it, but I have never been much of a Coach Moore fan.
I am reluctant to give him credit for being the OL coach we need, that goes back to his first season at TTU.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
I hadn't thought of that (blocking scheme)
I wonder if they are trying to create more space, thus moving laterally on the play calls. I don’t know. We just aren’t fast enough to get the edge and our WR blocking hasn’t been consistent enough to maintain the edge when we do that. Just a rough, rough year…
11/12/11...66-6...I once was blind, but now I see.
Don't worry about not being able to find answers for this year's team.
I don’t think anyone on here or on that coaching staff can find any either. The spiral that this team, this program, seems to be in looks unrecoverable with the same people at the helm. I wanted to believe that this team was making progress and I knew we would have highs and lows because of age, talent, new schemes, etc., but this seems to be far worse than that.
This team is just not getting better, and as you pointed out, they seem to have regressed. While I agree that Tubs probably gets a year three I really don’t see the need for it anymore. He has had two years now and this team looks weaker, confused, and as you mentioned completely disconnected. I really don’t see what giving Tubs another year really does for the program. If they were improving it would be one thing, but as was pointed out in another thread in areas like defense where we all thought that we had hit rock bottom last year we are actually doing worse this year. The offense has hit a brick wall. (I really believe that NB is being held back and he is too young to push back. This is way too similar to what happened during Tubs first flirtations with the spread at Auburn.) Finally, to make things even worse Tubs does not look like a man that knows or can figure out what is going wrong.
I say at this point Tech needs to cut its losses and move in another direction. Next year probably won’t be much better and if we have to be bad again I would rather it be with a new coach building on a better year 4 post ML then a new coach building on a better year 5 post ML.
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
Agree
There is no sense keeping a coach who’s trending down. Next season doesn’t look any better than this one season IMO. Insert the right coach and you have hope and a chance to revitalize the fan base. Tuberville’s popularity is fading fast and I doubt that changes in one more season.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Filemon G..
WOW, what a turnaround! T=You were defending Tuby and thought many ob this site were too harsh on the team and coach…and now Tuby has even lost your support, WOW, doesn’t look good for him!!!
Yeah
This has been a hard year for all Tech fans. After the last few games I cannot argue with the fact that these kids are not getting better. To me that’s on the coaches, all of them. I point to the simple form tackle. It almost looks as if this is not even being taught. Getting off of a block, again, the defensive linemen look like they have glue smeared on their jerseys. I watched Leon Mackey jog around all game and then get dumb penalties and it did not appear anything was being said about it. Where is the accountability?
On offense, the receivers look slow, maybe they are slow, but they are not running routes that can get them open. No adjustments when things go wrong and a stubbornness in play calling that is seemingly bizarre to me. (Probably, in my opinion because of the Tubs philosophy.) It seems like no matter what, the wrong play is called at the wrong time. Execution appears to be terrible. That is all on the coaches.
In the end we may have good recruiters, but poor practice and game day coaches.
"Again, once you employ childish language..(even when camouflaged behind parentheses)….the balance of your post is easily ignored. At that point, the impression is you are more interested in hurling invective than seriously contributing to the discourse." - ForestFlyer
by Filemon G on Nov 22, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Raider On!
Couldnt have said it any better.
by Raiderit on Nov 22, 2011 9:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, simple solution works for me!
I’m firmly in the “Fire Tubs” camp, although I know it won’t happen THIS year. Anyway, there’s a lot of things to be analyzed this off-season and we’ll read about lots of stuff this winter until spring ball. Don’t feel bad about not having all the answers, Seth (someone beat me to it!), you’re with a lot of company in this regard. You still have a lot better site than most!
Seth, I think your analysis is overall spot on.
Considering none of us are privy to the coaches meetings, their interract with the players, etc. It was encouraging to see better execuation on the offensive side of the ball for much of the first quarter. The defense showed some flashes of good play as well.
I’m puzzled as to who are the players showing leadership on the field. In the past, players like Harrell, Crabtree and others seemed to be ones embracing that role. It’s not clear to me that Tech has anyone who who demonstrably taking on that role.
Not to give the coaches a pass, but some leaders need to emerge on this team. It’s likely too late for this year though.
Regarding Tubberville, I think the only likely scenario in which he leaves would be if he elects to seek out another position. The possibles (at least as of now) are Miami, Mississippii, Tulane, UCF, South Florida and another southern state school that may have an opening.
Otherwise, I agree that Tubberville will have a third year at Tech.
MO should have won by more than 11
Watch the first half…it’s like their coaching staff did not watch one single snap of RR football all season. Their D was giving Tech the sideline stuff and playing 7 yards off the WRs…i was baffled. Then their O was trying to do what they usually do instead of attacking Tech’s weakness.
Once some sanity returned to their coaches and they started figuringout what works, it was a different ballgame. I think if they had done their homework and didn’t have a head coaching SNAFU in the middle of the week that they would have dominated us from whistle to whistle.
I’m in the “let’s cut our losses” camp. The disconnect is there with this team and the fanbase. As a coach, how could you possibly allow one of your players to call the fans “fair weather.” How could you allow your OL to call out the plays to the D even in garbage time? How could you vote CJK5HW@SMU’s kid a captain? This cancer has to be expunged and it starts with the metasticizing agent, Coach TT.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
by rpowel2 on Nov 21, 2011 8:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on all fronts
I think there is a come to Jesus meeting for tubs. I think there is zero chance he is let go, but I think there is a slight chance he goes somewhere to 1)run his power o 2)cut bait from the Lubbock experiment
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
While I'm not happy, look at the Big XII and I think it's easy to see why we're struggling
While we are missing an elite team like there has been in past years, the BigXII this year is incredibly strong overall. All but 2 team are already have bowl eligible (yes it sucks that we are one of those 2). Iowa State who we all thought sucked and should have beat just beat #2 OSU. We beat a then #2 OU. Baylor beat OU. If we look back at the season, I have no excuse for why we didn’t show up to 3 games, but every other game you could argue we should have and almost did win. We were up on A&M and if not for a freak blocked kick and return would have won. We should have beat KSU but Doege lost all control of the ball in the fourth when we were up. And this game against Mizzou had some weird calls on both sides, but if that last pass doesn’t get tipped and picked I’m sure we would have scored. This year has been the worst luck for stuff like this I’ve seen and when you add in the injuries, well I’m not suprised by where we are. If you want to complain about the 3 no shows, I can’t defend this team on those, but to bash them after a good game where an unlucky tip of the ball determined it is ridiculous. I’m not saying we will or won’t make a bowl or turn it around next year, but at least give our guys credit for trying. I’ve almost had to give up on reading this forum as it’s just to negative these days.
you manufacture luck through hard work and repetition
it was not a freak block when it happened the next week twice by the same player coming up the same gap.
Weird calls do not explain the MO game; they could have easily dominated us if they had a coach, like UT does, who recognizes what needs to be done. UT threw the ball 9 times…get it?
We did not show up to more than 3 games.
Call me a negative nancy, but I prefer a sober sally. I’ve seen every single game and am convinced we had superior talent against MO, ATM, KSU, and ISU, yet we lost.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
Superior Talent?
We had better talent than ISU, I’ll give you that, but A&M and Mizzou have way more. KSU I would say is more of a draw, but I bet you all 3 put more player in the NFL this year than we do. We’ll be lucky to get any in, maybe Smith if he’s lucky. What talent we do have is way to young to know what they are doing and should be redshirting or playing there first year after redshirting last year.
This is a telling quote...
“He’s a hard worker. All of his coaches are, I like the way [he] handles himself. He doesn’t make excuses. He accepts responsibility. ’It’s all on me.’ He says it every time we lose. ‘It starts with me.’
“He doesn’t blame the youth. He does say we need more numbers, but that’s a fact. We have less than 70 on scholarship. Saying that is not an excuse.”
The above is a quote from Florida AD Jeremy Foley about new Florida HC Will Muschamp. Florida went from BCS contender to currently 6-5. Contrast these comments with our HC. (btw, this is in Muschamp’s FIRST season and from my perspective I’ve always felt he WILL be a great HC one day)
put it another way
another coach would’ve found a way to win with our talent versus those teams
Missouri did not have superior talent to us. No way – maybe I give you Aggie, but look at the season they’ve had…
How many “could have” games did we win this year? Nevada…
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
Put it this way.
Missouri does have better talent. Lets look at recruiting. In 08 we had the 59th, they had the 31st. 09 we 30th, they were 38 so we got them that year though our best sign never made it to campus which weakens that class a bit, and in 10 they 27th while we where 36th. Now we all know we beat them last year, but last year can’t make up for the fact that our seniors are no where near as good as theirs If you look at ESPN draft stuff Tech has 4 people listed as NFL possible. Missouri has 15. Now tell me there isn’t a slight difference in talent and experience. Be realistic is all I’m asking for. That list doesn’t even include under class men where I would say Franklin looks better than Doege right now and there running back that got hurt was better than any of ours, although with time I expect our freshmen running backs to develop and compete with any ones. Same at tight end where Egnew is one of the best in the country. I think Amaro will be there in a few years, but right now he’s no where near.
Well at least we tried...
And the big 12 is super tough this year
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
and we have shown time and again how important those rankings are SOS
top-25-recruiting-teams-of-the-past-10-years
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
I didn't say ranking were all important. I said talent on the field was different.
My point was that on the field, Missouri had better talent. People argued we had more talent then Missouri and that is simply not true. We all know ranking and even talent sometimes are not enough. If they were Texas would be #1 still and OU would have stomped us in the ground as they had both in there favor. My only complaint is people are saying Tubs had the talent edge and loss. My point is he didn’t have it and we loss. End of story.
i think its gone to our coaches heads
I thought we were going to run a 4-2-5 D, but we’re so talented and experienced (hat tip LondonRaider) that we only needed 3 DL against MO.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
by rpowel2 on Nov 21, 2011 8:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Let’s focus on the positives:
1) Meetings start on time.
2) The HC doesn’t say as many bad words.
3) The sand pit is gone.
4) Are there others? There has to be something else.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
more positives
*there are more seats in the stands even if they are empty
*everyone gets a chance to be a captain
*we are all “special”
*defense wins championships
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
more positive
if you don’t like black outs on Saturday night, you get to wear red
if you don’t like black helmets, you get to see good guys wear white
you get to high five the HC during Raider Walk
you can tailgate right up to game time because no one goes anymore
you can yell at the HC and he can hear you in the third quarter
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
by Btech on Nov 21, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Big 12 has never had a weak Texas Tech
That makes everybody look better & puts an extra win on everybody’s record (except Oklahoma. And Kansas is beyond hope).
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Bowl Game - Not happening
I tend to speculate that Tech not making a bowl game this season will send season ticket sales and more into the gutter for next year. The Bell Tower may be ignorant but they like money and knowing our bowl record is toast won’t go over well. Our football revenue is something that can’t be disregarded. I’m not convinced Tuberville gets a year 3 with 5 consecutive losses anymore. If he beat Missouri I tend to think he’d be safe but a blow out loss to Baylor is coming and with loads of animosity from a progarm that has never beaten Tech in the Big 12. Don’t be surprised if this is Tuberville’s last game. I may be completely wrong but I think this has teeth.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I had planned to fly from the NW to Dallas for the Baylor game, but I think I will save myself the aggravation and stay home this Thanksgiving.
When we were 4 – 0, I told everyone I know we would be 5 – 7. I thought we’d beat ISU and lose to Okie. though. After watching the non conference games, I could see we were not the team of the past….
I live in the NW and used to get comments on Monday mornings at work about how well Tech looked over the weekend…. Now I either get “what happened” or nothing at all. Our program is done under Tubberville. Saturdays are now not a fun as they used to be…..
Save yourself the expense
The current product isn’t worth the packaging.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I have no emotions anymore
towards this team, this coaching staff, and certainly the football program as a whole. I made fun of teams like us every year and at least I could say was “At least we got to a bowl game” and not just that, we usually got to a particularily fun and competitive bowl game.
I am eating crow, and likely, will be doing the same next season. And probably the one after that.
I dont see how this gets any better next year, the year after that, or even the year after that. No matter who is coaching, this team just isnt great. They arent even competitive. And they wont be for quite a while. It’s just they way it’s going to be.
I believe Tuberville gets a 3rd year at Tech, but now after this year, all he was to do is get to a bowl game to be able to claim his time “successful”.
No. A big No. If we dont win at least 9 games next year. I seriously think we consider firing Tuberville. 9 games is a standard, and even then, that’s a disappointing year. We have the talent to do that. Honestly, this isnt a talent issue, it’s a scheme issue, especially when someone who has never played football (me) can tell what play you’re going to run because it’s the same horrendous play you called in that situation last game and the game before that, it’s a scheme issue. And that is a clear cut sign, your being out coached.
I think were in the middle of an offensive revolution in where the top offenses, are defenses (LSU, Alabama, even Arky has a stingy defense). And even then, their offenses are really balanced, if not lean toward the run.
RUN THE FOOTBALL. GET LINEMAN WHO CAN RUN BLOCK. HINT HINT NEAL BROWN, YOU HAVE A STABLE OF MUSTANGS IN YOUR BACKFIELD AND YOUR USING THE KLISDALES OUT ON THE SIDE TO “MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY”.
If making everyone happy is your goal, Tubs and Brown, just be honest. Change shit up. Run the damn football, I dont care. But what I do care is I saw the same sad story saturday I saw all year long. One team made adjustments at half time, the other didnt. And the losing team was us.
Tubs, you thought you could jsut run in here and be the white horse that saved the day, and you found out Big 12 football is complicated as hell (ISU and BAYLOR are GOOD?? WTF?). As surprised as you are, we saw this coming ahead of time, but our last coach MADE ADJUSTMENTS AND TOOK WHAT WAS GIVEN RATHER THAN JUST MAKING A PLAN AND STICKING WITH IT.
#FireNealBrown
A+ totally agree.........
There is no depth to tubs. he has no confidence in himself to make
adjustments.
Me also, no emotions...
Tuby has taken the “Fun” out of Tech football, and not winning combined with no fun= Apathy!
Our WR Corps...
Let’s keep in mind that both Detron Lewis and Wes Welker ran in the 4.6s. Crab and Filani ran in the 4.5s. I don’t think speed alone is the issue for this group. I personally feel as good about this group of receivers as almost any group we’ve ever had.
Others have mentioned the route spacing and how there seem to be so many receivers in one place when the ball is thrown. I don’t know if that’s intended to flood a zone or set up downfield blocking. At any rate, I do think play design may be a factor here. I also am not convinced that we couldn’t just run curl routes with Kennard and Moore, and just throw a jump ball.
good observation - u don't need burners in this O...never have...
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
Speed is more important now that it was when Welker and Filani were playing.
Defenses have evolved to fill the gap in what this offense can do.
I think that is why we are going to see strong running teams making more impact in the near future, defenses have evolved to faster lighter guys who can play pass, and they will not be as good against strong runners…and everyone will be amazed and want one of them good runnig teams.
That is part of what is fun about this sport, it is constantly a moving target to get ahead of the the curve.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
BS - then why is Welker the top WR in the NFL and Crabtree #1 in SF?
has the pro game regressed and the college game progressed?
have we already progressed to the point on our D-line….where we do well against passing/spread type offenses (OU) and then when smart coaches see our weakness (UT) they pass 9 times all game?
MISSOURI AVERAGED 5 YARDS ON EVERY QB KEEPER UP THE GUT. AND we stacked the box with 3 DOWN LINEMEN
Hopefully we can follow your lead and just go to the wishbone next year. Giddy up.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
Of course it is BS - that is what I have !!
Welker is the natural and Crabtree has potential .
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
I hate to mention this, but...
I also think as time goes on, it gets easier for opposing coaches to plan for the pass-based spread. The kids coming up from HS have been exposed to it their entire life by this point. So it’s no longer the great equalizer it used to be when Leach first got here. The LBs and DBs are more conditioned to playing in space and making their own adjustments for filling zones.
I’m sure there’s more to it than that, but it does seem to me that the more you’re exposed to a scheme, the less time it takes to react. When you don’t have to think on defense, you have a great chance of making a play.
11/12/11...66-6...I once was blind, but now I see.
didn't completely read TallMike's post, sorry for being redundant.
11/12/11...66-6...I once was blind, but now I see.
Do you have any statistics to back that up?
I’m looking at the top 10 offenses in the country, and I see mostly spread based offenses. Passing attempts per game have remained remarkably stable over the last four years. Oklahoma State was one or two games away from a national championship; that’s the definition of a great equalizer—so were we in 2008. I think about Oregon going to its first National Championship in 2011; historically that has not been a powerhouse school (555-468-47).
by Skin Patrol on Nov 21, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Mostly Spread Offenses
That run the ball effectively.
The top 10 offenses get more than 40% of their yards by running. Seven of the top 10 average more than 200 yards per game running.
Kingsbury’s offense averages over 170 yards per game rushing. They also average 9.9 yards per pass attempt which, IIRC is significantly more than the Air Raid used to average.
Spread offenses are still prevalent, they have just evolved over time to try to stay ahead of defenses. It appears most coaches believe that to run the spread you have to be able to run the ball effectively also.
if...
We say This is statistically Houston’s best season (undefeated, in discussion for BCS), and compare it to our best statistical season (2008), we get:
UH(2011): Case Keenun – 9.88 yds/att
TTU: Graham Harrel – 8.2 yds/att
UH(2011): Rush yds = 28% of total yds (using this instead of actual totals since UH still has 1 game to go)
TTU: Rush yds = 22% of total yds
Considering that TTU 2008 had to play against the rush defenses of UT (1 loss), OU (1 loss) and Nebraska, I think that’s pretty solid. Contrast with Houston, the ONLY 3 teams in ConfUSA (besides UH) with a WINNING record are: So. Miss(9-2), Tulsa(8-3), and SMU (6-5). UH has played only ONE of those teams (hint: So. Miss is NOT in their division and they play Tulsa next week).
I’m not usually one to argue “this conference > that conference”, but our 2008 air raid ended with wins over 3 top 25 teams. I’d also point out that Houston is like Baylor, they LIVE (and die) on the play of their QB. Much as you might want to highlight their run, last year UH started 2-0, then after Keenum went out against UCLA they finished 3 – 7, to close at 5 – 7.
What I see:
Before any goal posts get moved, I was only responding to the assertion that the spread offense is somehow less effective than it was, say, 5 years ago. I think the statistics don’t support that conclusion.
However:
Top 10 offenses:
Houston 27% of yards rushing
Baylor 5727 35% of yards rushing
OkState 28% of yards rushing
Oklahoma 29% of yards rushing
Nevada 50% of yards rushing
A&M 42% of yards rushing
North.Illin. 51% of yards rushing
Oregon 57% of yards rushing
Toledo 44% of yards rushing
Stanford 43% of yards rushing
As you can see, the top of the list is weighted towards those <40% of their yards from rushing.
Kingsbury’s offense tends to suggest that the passing-spread offense is alive and well.
I’m not sure spread offenses have evolved all that much over time. The air raid is alive and well in many parts of the country, and even Kingsbury’s offense isn’t rushing the ball more than 4-5 times per game than Leach was.
Texas Tech’s spread offense has certainly “evolved” as we now run the ball 35 times per game. That has certainly peppered my opinion of this whole “most coaches believe that to run the spread you have to be able to run the ball effectively also.” Our personal fan experience has been precisely the opposite, as the emphasis on running has led to a corresponding decrease in offensive production, most troublesomely our declining yards per play.
the passing attacks are taking over...
Also because of all the rules put in place to “protect” the QB and the receiver. Yes, it is important for a team to be able to get 1 yard when absolutely necessary (and that was a shortcoming of the ML Red Raiders) but Tuberville NEEDS to evolve if he wants to coach the current game because you NEED to have a strong passing game even in the NFL now.
Nailed it !!
The kids coming up from HS have been exposed to it their entire life by this point.
My grandson played 8th grade football this season. This is also the first season for the HS coach at the school my grandson’s school feeds. The HS head coach installed a spread offense—and by the way they were terrible—and in parallel the 8th grade team did also and at the beginning of the season they could not execute past the point of the center making the hike. They could not execute the hike. The timing was off and no plays were ran with elan.
Even as I talked about the impact of the coaching change, the point was intended to be that 7th graders, the 8th grade team is a middle school for 7th and 8th graders, are exposed to the high school’s scheme so they can learn it on the way up.
When it changes, it goes all the way down to 7th grade and everyone is on a new learning curve.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
The assumption is that the spreading of the spread offense to every level will make it less effective, something something defense adjustments.
The opposite seems far more likely; that as young players are exposed to the offense, they will be that much more adept at it by the time they reach the collegiate level.
I also think but don’t know that the teams currently most adept at stopping the spread offense are the ones that see it the least. Tech defenders have over the years had arguably more experience playing against the spread offense as any in the country, and we’ve never effectively defended against it. We didn’t lose the Cotton Bowl in 2005 because Alabama recruited a bunch of kids who played defense against the spread.
That Cotton Bowl game still chaps my ass, the Tides only touchdown wasn’t a touchdown. If fact it was 80 yards short of one, on that pass the receiver went down on one knee to catch the ball behind the line of scrimmage. And that last second FG had no business going thru the uprights. Jeez!
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
As a coach should it ever be enough?
If you loose by one and one play was the and even if you blow a team out, That cannot be enough because you have to go and do it again next week. I do not want a coach to ever say “its not fair.”
"its not fair."
I feel that way also. It’s a game of strategy and it’s not as though we lost on bad call. The game was fair and the result was a loss. Missouri won and rightfully so.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I read a lot of what Coach Tuberville says differently than a lot of other people.
What I think he was thinking in this opening comment was that he is disappointed for his players. That he has seen the work, effort, desire that they exhibit in the locker room, at practice, in the training and conditioning that they do. I think he includes the staff’s efforts as well, and he thinks they rate a better outcome than have a game that they led fall away in the closing quarter.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Could be. I think we tend to scrutinize his verbage more and more lately. I’m sure he and his staff do the best to their abilities which IMO are lacking.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
His every word is being picked over.
LOL, and he is not that nimble with his articulate !!
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
He does have a penchant for saying incredibly stupid things.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
What we say a lot of the time reflect our mentality
For him it seems that it is enough that the players work hard in practice but do not perform on Saturday. It seems okay that his players are small and weak, but they are not getting stronger, and then he says it is unfair.
It starts and ends with the Head Coach
Yet Tubby has still not really admitted that HE has not been the leader he should have been.
Here are a few suggestions:
1. This team does not have an identity. What are the strengths of the team? Are those strengths being accentuated?
2. Coaches are supposed to mentor and build leaders on the team. I don’t see this happening. As some have stated, there appears to be a lack of player-leaders.
3. The HC is supposed to be a motivator. I don’t see that happening.
4. I don’t see adjustments being made. Just the same-old, same-old. If it is not working, change the approach! Change the strategy! We just keep doing the same things over and over again and expect different results. This includes changing the QB if he is having a bad game or bad stretch of games. This includes changing the play calling. This includes changing the defense – especially to stop the run. etc. etc.
5. Finally, the mark of a leader is to look behind you. Is anyone following? I see that disconnect here. NOBODY is following Tubby right now.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
What I cant comprehend...
Is the fact that we have a really, really good stable fo running backs, yet we arent using them at all.
If the decline in Doege is obvious, and the incline of our running game is obvious, yet out coaching staff is oblivious to it…why should we even bother?
#FireNealBrown
Due to Injury, we're now down to 2
But you are right. The HC and his coordinators are supposed to figure out “what do we do best”…..and then go do that. That sets the identity of the team. That’s what this team lacks. If we pass the ball well, then pass the ball! Don’t f*** around running the ball just because you think you need to be “balanced”.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
Actually down 3
if you include stephens, washington and now crawford has an ankle injury.
Now we are down to kenny Williams and ?.
Didn't know that Crawford is not injured also
Maybe Tubs will bring back Ronnie Daniels? Or maybe move Marquez to RB?
No, that would make sense. Sorry, forget about that,\.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
if he's the control freak we all hear about
then Daniels won’t be around
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
We could have really used daniels this year.
He is the biggest back we have.
Daniels deserves to be suspended he keeps
failing drug test for pot from what i heard.
That shows me a lack of caring.
if that is what it is
then just kick him off – 2nd failed drug test to me in a FB program is a death sentence – good luck somewhere else big fella.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
Crawford spent the last few drives playing with a noticable limp.
He was hurt earlier, layed on the field with the trainers in his ear, helped off and returned to play.
That kid is a heart football player !!!
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
I saw that as well. Crawford was playing like a warrior. You could tell he wanted this win. I might also add DeAndre Washing is going to be a great player for Tech with or without proper coaching.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Washington is living up to the reputation of this class of rb's.
He is going to be like Stephens before it is over, a guy we can expect to make plays.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
i really like washington as well
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
well we certainly recruited a bunch of them, don't know why we didn't recruit all DB though.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
Hate to see Crawford go!
We need kids like him. Hate it that he leaves after a losing year.
LOL ! I agree but we have had him forever, he must be about 30 by now !!!
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
At BARE minimum...
When we were playing a team like Texas we should played goal line defense, 11 men in the box EVERY play until David Ash proved he could complete a pass. OSU, I get worrying about the burn, but really, Mizzou we should’ve sold out to the run. Play man-to-man on their receivers and everyone else flooding the line of scrimage. If Mizzou had beaten us PURELY on several passes burning us for a TD, then I’d be annoyed but they bombed some deep TD fade routes on us where there was no help ANYWAY. If your safeties and LBs aren’t watching helping on the deep man, then get their asses on the linemen and RBs. Until we prove we can stop the run AT ALL teams have no reason at all to pass on us aside from just “practice” and pride.
Well
from what I can tell, since the OU game, we dont pass well, at all.
Before this game, even before this seaosn, we knew we had a stable of running backs. I just dont see why we arent using them. The pistol formation was jsut about unstoppable Saturday night. Why in the world did we phase from that?
Because Brown still thinks this is the MAC.
#FireNealBrown
We're saying the same thing
If we run the ball well, then run the ball!!
This team does not have an identity.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
Brown is just as lost as Tuberville. You could even throw coach Chad in there as well after the lasted defensive numbers. This staff won’t be able to find a solution.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
You say it
Like there is a solution.
There really, isnt. I just hate the fact that at EVERY halftime, we dont see any adjustments, when, literally, that is what halftime is for.
#FireNealBrown
There is
Start over and fire the whole damn bunch. It was a bad hire and even if takes more time it’s not worth delaying the rebuilding process. Holding out for hope with this group is not worth it and it’s better served to find another head coach that brings in his assistants. The argument is that it sets us back further but IMO we’re not going to get better under this current staff.
We have the athletes that a more astute coaches could work with. This could be a gold mine for the right personnel.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I agree
Look at what BCG has done as an example. Is there a BCG for the football team out there somewhere?
Which brings me to the admin part of our “problem”. Will hance, Bailey, and Hocutt have the cojones to make the change?
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
The problem is
The means Hance has to admit he is wrong. No way that happens.
The only way this changes is if we suck next year (which we will) Hance HAS to fire him, or if Tubs leaves on his own will.
And were back to suck-a-tude for a long, long, long time.
#FireNealBrown
True but the majority we fans and alumni wanted Tuberville among the candidates available after the Leach firing. Hance made a horrible decision in terminating Leach but went with the majority decision to hire Tuberville thus Hance probably doesn’t feel like he owns this bad hire all himself.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I wanted Sumlin
although I won’t say I was disappointed with Tubs. I gave him a fair shake, IMO. I think at the very least he could have tried what Wade Phillips did at Dallas – take over the play-calling of the defense. If you’re such a defensive stud then give it a whirl – not like it could hurt anything!
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
yep on Sumlin
"Fill it up again". "It's so good! Once it hits your lips it's so good!" -Frank the Tank
problem is they're much more $ now than they were then
I liked the things I saw at UH. I was at the game in 09 when they beat us, and I could see how far that program had come. He would have been great from a leadership perspective – much like his twin brother Mike Tomlin.
"Oh,we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon." Spike Dykes
basketball is completely different
you can turn around bball faster than football.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
its looking that way
we will know more about the old spice tourney
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I am looking for the 3rd year of Coach Gillispie's tenure.
thinking full and wild on the home court !!!
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Tell that to K-State this year
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
You can turn around a FB program in one year.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
how many younger kids leave if tubberville is canned?
Remerber a lot of kids were sold on his style.
You just have to take that risk
Losing recruits is going to happen and if players want transfer out, let them. I good coach will work with what he has and bring in personnel that can coach players up. Sounds familiar doesn’t it. I also don’t think too many kids are sold on Tuberville’s style as of lately. Kids want to win and go to bowl games. The father figure coaching is great but will only last so long.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
I think Coach is a good salesman and will somehow convince them we will be better next year even if we end up 5-7. Maybe not all, but most. But because we have such a strong need for certain positions like D-Line and defense over all, i think the promise of getting to play as a freshman will entice some recruits.
From what I gather on their Twitter accounts
If anyone is more frustrated with this then us, it’s definitely them.
As Jace Amaro said after the OSU lost
“I hate that we lost, but I promise I will help lead Texas Tech to a NC. I know we can do it.”
#FireNealBrown
I would buy a car from Tuberville
But I don’t want him to coach anymore.
Doesn't matter.
I’d rather have mediocre kids and win than great kids and loose.
Be a team. Be the most excited to play. Be the best at doing your @#&$ing job.
only problem with mediocre kids
is we got 8-5 seaons every year and maybe one 10 win season.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
because i want better than one 10 win season. I want it consistently.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
To borrow a phrase
From there (ML), it seemed possible. From here (TTub), not so much.
The team Tubs inherited was 9-4 and returned a ton of seniors.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
that great.
but i want more. i never thought people would argue with me about wanting and getting more talent?
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
More talent comes as a result of success on the field and that was happening already.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
IMHO
i disagree. Leach was getting the pub not the players. (only 3 standout players I can think of, Welker, Crabs, and Graham) We have had good talent, but now we are getting better talent. I’m pissed off as much as anyone else but I am giving tubs till the end of his contract before I say much more.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
We had more talent than you listed.
And I think you are more wanting to make a point.
Mike Leach’s program was building depth and talent in small steps, there was progress with that over the body of work.
What has amazed us all is the reports of the step change in over all recruiting by the current staff as reported by the media. Not the norm for TTU and it is fun.
What is incredibly disappointing is the w / l column. And for some that we had a bunch of guys who were seniors, guys that we have supported for 4 or 5 years and wanted to see them finish TTU with success, not get to do that for reasons we don’t know.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
notice the word "standout"
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Without Leach's work, we don't get the talent level we're getting now
It’s no coincidence that most of our 4-star recruits of the last few years are at the WR position. You can argue that some haven’t panned out (heck, look at the how the “amazing” 4 and 5 stars at UT are doing) but if you go by rankings, that is what it is. I think you also can’t gauge Leach’s final recruits entirely by the last 2 years considering that a good number have left the program.
Go back and look at what the recruiting class looked like in 2009 before we imploded. We were well into the top 25 and I believe that some had us in the top 20. A lot of that would be class fell off the board after the turmoil. Look at some of the top recruits we are getting now and what they have said, things like I grew up loving the Red Raiders.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
what class wouldn't fall off after a good HC is fired...
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
More talent comes as a result of success on the field and that was happening already.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
and i would say we have always had that.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
The trend right now is 11-2, 9-4, 8-5, and now 5-7 or 6-6. On the surface it would seem to us less brilliant observers that we are heading in the wrong direction.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Do You Know
ML’s record in the first two years of his reign?
Apple and oranges.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Spikes last 4 years
1996 Texas Tech 7–5 5–3 2nd L Alamo
1997 Texas Tech 6–5 5–3 2nd-T
1998 Texas Tech 7–5 4–4 3rd L Independence
1999 Texas Tech 6–5 5–3 2nd-T
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Mikes first 4 years
2000 Texas Tech 7–6 3–5 4th (South) L galleryfurniture.com
2001 Texas Tech 7–5 4–4 T–3rd (South) L Alamo
2002 Texas Tech 9–5 5–3 T–2nd (South) W Tangerine
2003 Texas Tech 8–5 4–4 4th (South) W Houston
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Add to that the probation and scholarship issues.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
No dropoff
Don’t you remember how mike complained about the crap that he inherited from spike?
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Actually I don’t remember him complaining, I do remember him bringing Spike back when he broke his record and saying how much he admired Spike and noting how much Spike did for the program.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
damn, anyone of those look good to me.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
Only 3 standout players under Leach?
The ones you mentioned. I would say Amendola, Louis Vasquez, Batch, Rylan Reid. Any QB under leach except maybe Potts.( Those players are still making impacts in football whether it be in the pro’s or coaching except Reid I don’t know what happened to him) I would also add Brandon Carter to that list, and Colby Whitlock. If you look at the players they weren’t even blue chip recruits. Crabtree was a 3 star Welker did not even get an offer from any other D-I school.
those are great players but not standouts...
to me standout means they have made a name for themselves and people, besides tech people, know who they are. Clear as mud?
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
oh and I might add batch...
but i need to see what he can do in the NFL before I can him a standout. I think he will have success though.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
two of the 3 players you originally listed as "standouts" have thus far made little or no impact in the NFL
your thoughts?
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
graham, Crabtree
Graham will have a great career in the NFL. Once a team gives him a chance. He is in one of the best QB schools in the NFL right now in Green Bay. Green Bay is trying to keep him around. I have even heard talk of trading Flynn and promoting Harrell to #2 QB. Pretty good to me in the #1 NFL team in the country.
Crabtree just needs to get healthy, and stay healthy. Plus it helps when he could get a QB that wouldn’t make him drive or jump for ever pass. Once SF gets more into their groove…which they are now…..you will start hearing more about Crabtree. He just has to stay healthy.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
well that's swell that you feel that way
but you’re arbitrarily reserving judgement on some players before you confer upon them “standout” status, while forecasting greatness for two others based on not a whole lot more than optimism. Really, NFL performance shouldn’t color your judgement of what a player does in college, it can only tell you in retrospect that a player like Wes Welker really was that special, despite his recruit ranking. Besides, given the general lack of Red Raiders in the NFL, I’d say that anyone who manages to crack a roster, let alone hang around for a few seasons deserves honorable mention.
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
true, but isn't the NFL an elite status for players?
I was trying to look at it from an outsiders perspective. Someone that is not familiar with TTU and its players. Who they would know and standout to them…
i guess it all is with the eye of the beholder….i like the idea of honorable mention. someone should do a fanpost of past, and present red raiders. like a all red raiders team. 1st team, 2nd team, 3rd team, and honorable mention. that would be fun!
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 22, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Rylan Reed
Would have been a “standout” but he blew out his knees. That kid has our benchpress record and impressed scouts in workouts, but unfortunately his knees were shot. (I’d remind that in the Gator Bowl he shut down top 5 pick Chris Long)
I’d say Amendola has at least become “relevant” to his NFL team, you’re definitely in the “fuzzy metric” range there. Dwayne Slay had his moments in college, but granted didn’t really breakthrough in pros. I think Matt Williams was definitely a standout while at Tech. ;)
i think he could bench press the moon...
but lets be honest most people don’t pay attention to the unsung heroes…..OL.
im think great players but the avg college fan won’t know who they are. i guess its all in the eye of the beholder.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
Louis Vasquez
He is one of the better Offensive linemen. He may not be the best, but his play speaks for itself. He is athletic holds onto blocks and gets very few penalties. I don’t understand how you cannot consider him a standout player. He only holds the combine record for most reps of 225. (unless this has been broken without my knowledge)
What can Brown do for you?
draw draw bubble draw
by Pancho on Nov 21, 2011 9:45 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Doege is not a good as everyone wants him to be or perhaps thinks he is.
This type offense rides on the shoulders of the qb. He has to be quick with decisions and accurate with passes.
He also has to have receivers that can either out ‘rebound’ a defender for a ball, or get separation…that is not happening.
Again on the qb, there has always been an element of ‘feeling’ pressure from the defense that has to be mastered. I think some of that comes from having an OL / pass protection that is consistently able to provide X amount of time minimum.
Our offense lost its mojo when we lost Stephens, it may not be cause and effect—what I wrote implies that—it may be coincidence, but it goes back to that game. I think the fact that Moore was also injured is strongly at work here. They were the two guys, the heart of the offense, that Doege relied on to give him confidence…guys he could draw on for his own source of energy. His main playmakers. What we see in losing them is the result of not having great depth.
There have been plenty of injuries on offense other than these two guys that when looked at from a whole, make significant difference. And I cannot see how a trainer’s conditioning program, one that has been proven successful, is cause and effect. The references to our prior trainer, while honoring a guy that did a great job for us, ignore the injuries that are plaguing that program currently.
Of course it does not make sense, we are not close enough to the field and locker room to know.
On defense, like the offense this season and like the defense last season is plagued with injury, is not going to do as well as we like simply because we changed DC’s, that alone has always been a huge factor in most programs…yes, other opposing thought examples are citable.
Good grief, we started a big bunch of freshmen this season. That is a tactic / strategy that many have suggested on the boards I have read over the years. Start these young guys, give them the experience and growth, they will turn into better players in time. At some point that is self defeating. I think for TTU, this season, it is one of the factors that has lead to the w/l column. We have a great class of freshmen, and that class could not come through either because we were trying too much ( plus on defense with a new system ) and they were not physically and mentally able or because we did not give enough credit to the seniors whose last season of college football was lost because we took a different direction at their expense. We also lost a lot of leadership guys from our defense this year.
It is what it is and we have one game left, I believe we can win that one, the last one was clearly winnable on the road.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
tallmike,
Is Doege allowed to change plays at the line? I know GH did alot, but for the life
of me I really can’t tell with this new system.
Yes, he is, I think we have seen under both recent coaching staffs that not only is it allowed.
In certain situations it is expected.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Someone had a story...
about Potts being chewed out by Tubs for changing a play at the line in the Colorado game last year. That would explain a lot of things we’ve seen happen this year.
A lot of crappy play-calling by Tubs.
Just my opinion, but being a season ticket holder I’ve seen all the home games in person and….I’ve seen some crappy play-calling!
He sure seems to be overriding a lot of NB's calls.
A lot of other folks on this board besides myself tend to agree with this viewpoint.
I don't think there is time for a hc to override a call during a game.
It is a fast operating offense that gets a call into a qb or signals the players at large via wig wag. Then the qb either runs the play, adjusts the play, or calls a different before the snap.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
It doesnt have to be a gametime thing either.
Pretty early on I could believe Tubs requesting more safe throws to the sidelines – and since NB sort of has that one down, the change would be made.
How hard is pulling on the rains on the first few days NB is here and saying “lets keep it on the ground more, we need to run the ball.”
Head coach sets the tone, too – maybe not just spot playcalling.
The boss tells you to do something his way, then….
Yes, they have an offensive philosophy that demands a more effective running game.
I think the HC has influenced that. I also think it makes sense…we wanted that every game under Mike Leach—I think he did also but preferred to focus on the passing game…a matter of philosophy.
I am thinking that the actual plays that are called are established more by the OC as part of a game plan, with HC’s agreement. They both likely talk about what happened the games prior, what has worked and what has not under the varying conditions of the opposing defenses. Add to that changes in personnel due to injury, Moore and Stephens being more impact, and you get down to what you think your players can execute in the coming game.
Everyone likes that side line pass, the question to me is not why is it called but why is it not executed when it is called.
Surely the staff saw what was working in practice, why does that not translate to the field ?
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
I think you are both "right"
however NB did say in one of his pressers, that he does yield to Tuberville’s in game influence because Tuberville has more “experience”
Also to someones point, under Leach’s system 2 plays called in the huddle…one run, one pass…then the QB makes a read at the line….and audibles to the play.
What I have seen him do is react to a play.
He jumped Potts from making a dumb play and he also jumped Doege for making a dumb play. Dumb in his opinion. But that is what coaches do, jump their charges for making mistakes.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Coaches also...
do some damn coaching during the games! And some teaching during the week. I don’t see much evidence that Tubs does that.
Watch basketball games, coaches work the players there also.
It is what they do, they coach every minute they get.
If they do not react during a game we would never see an adjustment. Why wait to make a correction when it is needed in the moment ?
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Maybe so...
Anyway, we’re not there hearing exactly what’s going on so we don’t know exactly who does what, etc., so it’s all conjecture for us. I’m just seeing that it’s not successful for us. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree—that’s democracy!
I’m watching our BB games this year, and I sure love watching BCG making HIS adjustments. Go Billy Clyde!
I wasn't trying to be disagree so much at adding a different perspective.
I can do that what ever the standing line of thought sometimes. It really helps me think things through.
Right now the bb team is looking like it is going to be fun. We certainly can see a different style of play and different style of coaching…and recruiting.
So the three wins we have make us so excited….there has been a lot of good fortune in those wins. We have not been really tested and we will be soon enough.
I don’t like predictions on this sort of thing, but if we get an N.I.T. invite this will be a very successful season for our program….and for this year’s team.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
Long-Term Problem
We have been lucky to have had stability in coaching over the last 20+ years. Now we’re looking at the same problems that other teams have been dealing with for years [decades]. Even recruiting powerhouses like Michigan, Miami, and ND have struggled for years trying to find the right coaching staff, while putting out mediocre teams in the process. Closer to home, look at Fishbait U. Even after years of top recruiting classes, they’re still just barely over .500. Even UT is struggling after their shake-up, and they still have their CEO and the recruiting classes.
We’re in the same Catch-22 that all losing teams face. Do you keep TT for another year or two and hope he turns it all around (at the risk of continued failure)? Or would those extra years just be wasted time that could have been used to get another staff up and running – another staff that may or may not be up to the challenge?
Let’s face it. We hit a home run when we replaced Spike. This time around we’re looking at an 0-2 count with Nolan Ryan on the mound (extra points for cross-sport metaphor). To make it worse, we’ve got Chuckles the Clown managing from the dugout. I can’t imagine that the same guys that put us in this mess have enough smarts to get us out. Throw in the revenge/pride/ego factor, and I’m sure they don’t.
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
Kirby Hocutt
he will make the right call.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
I just miss the swagger.
The team immediately after OU win had swagger that you could see.
Post ISU Loss…it’s like they cant wait to leave the field.
#FireNealBrown
Neal Brown Game Footage Troy Trojans 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPw2tS9lyMk
Prepare to be shocked.
This is enough for me to believe NB aint the problem.
One run up the middle and the rest looked like spread offense.
So I am to believe NB invented this draw play since he got to Tech, and uses it so often because it works?
Clearest sign yet that for me that talk of Tub’s meddling is true.
I can’t freaking believe it. The run plays don’t seem to be natural to NB at all, but we go right up the middle over and over again.
Compare the Trojans to our offense, and it comes up Tubs every time.
The passes to the sideline
Do have Brown’s fingerprints on them though.
I don’t know Raider289. The Big 12 level of play is whole lot different than the Sunbelt. I’m not saying Tuberville isn’t meddling because he could be but I’m willing to roll the dice on Brown being the sacrificial lamb. This league is too much for all these coaches IMO.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Il'l give you that
Those plays were slow and hesitant like high-school games.
We are a bit more big-time and the plays should be a lot more crisp and graceful.
I agree that he might be sent to walk the plank, It looks more wrong the more I learn about him though. I think it’s mostly on Tubs. The monkey buisness with the running game, especially.
I don't know the reason, but we could not make a draw play look like a draw play.
It looked more like someone sharing a two day old sardine sandwich in a crowded elevator
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
The athletes we have are better than the Sunbelt too. That should be a wash.
The offense Brown ran at Troy should work in the Big 12. I also agree that it is not what is being run by Tech. When the calls even remotely resemble his Troy days – we move the ball at will. I can’t for the life of me figure out why Tubs would subvert his own success, but it’s hard to deny that Brown’s play calling resembles Tubs SEC teams more than it resembles his own MO. I can see how Brown may be fired, but not because he is a problem. I still think that is a bad move.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Stats Tell A Little Different Story
For the 2009 season Troy got 31% of it’s offense rushing. 46% of its offensive attempts were rushes.
Averaged 4.4 yds per carry versus 8.3 yds per passing attempt.
I was just gonna say.....
I watched a couple of Troy games two years ago, and liked what I saw. I don’t think NB is the problem either. Yea big time conference and all that, but also more talent. My thinking is we put our saddle on the wrong horse as far as the HC is concerned.
I think the Stephens injury was bigger than
any of us thought it would be. Since he went down, our consistent ability to at least pick up yards went away. Sure, it wasn’t always pretty even with him, but we were a top 10 offense until the OU game. He was more valuable than I think I thought.
11/12/11...66-6...I once was blind, but now I see.
My two-cents on Tubby
1) If Tech has a convincing game and win against Baylor on national television, Tubby stays another year but probably gets permission to make major staff changes.
2) If Tech is embarrassed by Baylor, I think Tubby is gone, but Hance won’t “fire” him—instead just like at Auburn, Tubs will “resign.” Probably telling all that he tried but, “you know, it just wasn’t meant to be.”
3) Hance and Hocutt will move quickly and bring Sonny Dykes “home” as Tech’s next HC. This would be a solid personnel and political move for Hance and Hocutt and I think for Tech.
4) Dykes accepts and brings his current OC Tony Franklin with him. The “Air Raid” returns, a “favorite son” returns, alums will be happy, ticket holders will be happy, and Tubs can get out of town while the homecoming parade for Sonny is in progress.
5) Wait and see—we’ll know more on Monday!
I said the same about Tuberville having the Baylor game as his saving grace. It’s going to come down to money and those ticket sales for next season are going to look alot like Raider Park sales. I myself spend thousands on Tech football every year but that’s on hold for 2012. No point in spending money on a team who can’t win at home and almost lost to Kansas.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Your point?
who said anything about “Air Raid”??
Bring back Kliff as OC….CUZ HE KNOWS HOW TO RUN AN OFFENSE!!
Just for the purposes of coherence
we’re all aware that the Air Raid is an actual offense scheme that several programs at the DI level run and not some mystical combination of Mike Leach and Tech and not sucking, right?
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to buy a vowel?
I thought it was a modified version of the spread? Sure you can have plain, but there’s Pineapple, Garlic & Herb, Whipped, Touch of honey, and Salmon flavors.
Its all still spread, right?
I think I missed something.
"spread" is kind of a meaningless term at this point
There are so many different variations of the same basic concepts, and a lot of them include personnel sets that aren’t typically associated with spread offenses. The Airraid on the other hand pretty specifically refers to a no huddle offense that rarely runs the ball, rarely features less than 3 wide receivers, and favors a few flexible play concepts that can be run from different formations in response to whatever the defense shows in the pre-snap read, rather than a specific playbook. ‘Verticals’, ‘Mesh’, ‘Ace Rip Lisa’, are some of the better known plays that feature prominently in most Airraid offenses. Still, even this one is starting to splinter out as guys like Dana Holgorsen have gone out into the wide world with the Airraid+ type stuff that he helped develop at Houston, brought to Oklahoma St, and now runs at WVU (in his case, the offense features more motion, modified two-back pistol sets, and a lot of aggressive vertical passing). Guys like Sonny Dykes run a modification of the scheme that takes more advantage of bigger tight ends as receivers as well as to augment the running game and show the defense less via personnel.
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
uh... ok
So what’s the scheme of “Mike Leach + Tech not sucking”, can we find someone who’ll do that? If necessary, I’ll SETTLE for just the “Tech not sucking” part.
Leach Air-Raid
ML used very wide splits in the line—3 yds. apart—most other teams that run the so called Air-Raid, don’t use that wide of split in the o-line. Those wide splits open up the passing lanes as well as the running lanes inside. NB should be doing this also, IMO.
by Red and Black 71 on Nov 21, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
This is only partly true. Leach significantly shortened the line splits. This was 2009 vs. Kansas St.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGmNQaZffkA
This is 2001 and it is 3 yards apart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNT5yVGh21s
Leach really shortened up those splits over time.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Yes
Leach did use narrower splits the last couple of years, but was still spreading them out at times depending on the opposing team, D sets, play call,and field position.
Was just trying to emphasize that ML Air-Raid was unique.
by Red and Black 71 on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
The splits depend on the O-line
Leach would start out the line at a certain width then increase the splits if needed. If the O-line was having problems he would adjust. The purpose of the splits it not to open up running lanes. It was to create a bigger pocket and increase the distance from a DE to the QB.
I didn’t think this happened, but I do think that he started at TTU with 3 yard splits, but in 2008 and 2009 they were never (I haven’t seen any footage) 3 yards apart like in 2001.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
we had a lot more talent on the line in 2008
Not sure about 2009 (I always thought Brandon Carter was the LEAST capable of our 2008 linemen and pretty overrated)
My Point(s) Were
Kliff runs an offense that runs the ball as often as Neal Brown runs it. You know, the current offense everyone is griping about?
Kliff doesn’t run the “Air Raid”, meaning he is not a Mike Leach clone, which is bound to be a disappointment to many. And the difference is a lot more than just line splits. The current UH version of the spread as coached by Kliff is much more vertical than the Air Raid ever was.
That's
A lot of assumptions that everyone only wants mikes version of air raid. The initial attraction to kliff for me is that I met him…and he is bright and I think would have techs best interest at heart. I also think he would be an informal hc candidate in training….or at least one learning to be. I also know him to be high energy.
What’s not to like?
Having said this, no way in hell does mr Haney bring someone that tied to mike in at oc.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
Whoa There Old Timer...
Don’t believe I used either the “everyone” or the “only” qualifiers.
But if you don’t believe there are some that will view any deviation from Mike Leach football as a failure see Mr. Moore’s post below.
I said yesterday that I would prefer Kliff as OC. Never met the man but I’ve heard him speak. Heard him speak about how the offense he coaches is not the Air Raid as a matter of fact.
Every time the subject of replacing the coaches comes up there is someone(s) that think the only answer is to swallow pride, pay lots of money and bring the Pirate back.
Old timer?
You do make an assload of assumptions.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
Pardon Me
You’ve been here 3 years and made over 8,000 comments.
Didn’t strike me as a newbie.
8,000 comments? Damn, OSR
don’t you have a job?
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Nov 21, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yes...I'm a blogger...
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Can you send me an application?
I tell my wife everyday how great it would be if I got a job as a blogger. It’s bought me some time on DTN- but that may end soon. I’m gonna need some money.
No bullfights. No gambling. No donkeys. No vanilla extracts. No piñatas. None of that stuff. Straight football. No switchblades.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Nov 21, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
And that's relevant.....how?
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
I sense that an attempt at harmless if poorly-judged humor
has once again gone awry on the Internets
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Are You Saying
You’re not old, you’re just verbose?
Riveting back and forth.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
We all keep talking about hiring someone "like" Mike Leach
Here I’ll say it…why don’t we just hire THE Mike Leach!!!!?
get rid of Bailey and Hance and rehire Mike Leach.
by Bryan Moore on Nov 21, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You can't have a Mike Leach offense
Without Mike Leach. Just like you can’t have a muschamp defense without muschamp……or chizik or Rhoads….
Kliff's offense does not run the ball as much as Neal Brown's offense.
Which is curious, because Houston has played with a lead in every game this season.
Air Raid was extremely vertical in 2008 and 2003.
I agree with you that Kliff is not a Mike Leach clone. But that offense is more like Tech’s pre-Brown than present Tech.
Dunno
Both Tech and UH run the ball 40% of the time. Seems pretty even to me.
And in an earlier post someone pointed out that Tech’s 2008 yards per attempt was 8.2 while UH is at 9.9 so far this season. That’s a 20% difference and probably should be considered significant.
Tubs isn't going anywhere
He will stay until 2013 sorry guys. Once the contract is over then he may get canned.
Texas Tech Defense..."60% of the time it works every time."
by I bleed Red and Black on Nov 21, 2011 11:36 AM CST reply actions
A losing season combined with bad beats
By UT, OU, and the ghost of ML in WVU then Tubs will be gonzo. Even the most ardent Craig James supporter would agree.
O Tubby where art thou?
I wonder where the administration is today, acting swiftly to remove Leach, why they are not acting so quickly now that this program has collapsed? I have stuck 6-6 or 7-5 at best all year. Tubby has lost this program and kids, and he needs to go this year. I do not see this getting much better next year, and its time for Hance and Co step down or act swiftly. I think for this program to hit bottom officially Baylor needs to hang it on us this weekend in front of the sowells and the rest of bor located in Dallas to really bring it home. The Tubby( fix it )approach sales bs to the best offense in the country that he has tried to (sell) the proof is out. Its really sad that a few people could not stand for Leach’s popularity and power that has taken down a decade worth of sold out games and excitement is almost had to imagine. Administration is reaping what they sowed in 2009.
According to the Lubbock County Appraisal District
Tommy Tuberville hasn’t bought for himself a residence. Two properties are in his name: one in Wolfforth (on Sooner Lane) for his mother; the other is undeveloped land in the northwest part of the county.
So easy to get out of town, whenever.
Doodle earth says
there’s been some drilling up there.
Can’t tell if it’s oil, gas, water or what.
West of Abernathy ENE of Anton.
Good observation, 289
Maybe Tubs can hit a big gas well and get the hell out of our program.
by Red and Black 71 on Nov 21, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Also, have a look
Northeast of Reese and south of Shallowater there are a few nice places among the pump jacks. Have a look at the satellite maps. Looks high-end. Neat little development.
Not a place for a man troubled by wind or dirt though. Maybe that area if it was investment property? Who knows. Meh.
Swindall was WIDE open on the last drive....
Would have had an easy TD:
Doege has got to make better reads Instead of staring down just one receiver. I think you have to open up the QB job next year…. I just haven’t been that impressed with Doege. He looks lost out there at times.
From media lunch today per tech rivals.com
“Doege said that his pre-snap read and progression were all correct on the final play of the game, it just got tipped. He said he doesn’t want to second guess himself, but he would’ve slid right and thrown the same pass if he had to do the play over.”
It doesn't matter what we say...
It’s all about the “power people”…IF they want to ride it out with Tubs for another year or two or ten…that’s how it will be. He’s definitely back for next season and if he has a decent recruiting class and finds a way to win at least 5 or 6 games he’ll be back for a couple of more years.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
Disagree
If the stands at the Jones are empty. If season ticket sales go south. If financial support for the university suffer.
Then they will not have a choice. So it does matter.
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.
I hope you're right...I agree that if there's enough pain they will have to do something.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
Consumers rule
You don’t like Netflix new policy or new formula coke? Don’t patronize and the consumer always wins. If you are hoping for change, but continuing to spend dollars….it won’t happen. It sucks, but it’s the reality.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so
Possibly 2012 but certainly no longer than that without at least 8 wins. Consumers will make this determination. Nobody gets to keep their job when the seats are empty.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Common sense says you are 100% correct...
but I haven’t seen much common sense on display around there lately.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
Seven MIGHT get it done
Seven wins might convince people he’s making strides and give him another season since they’re committed to 2015, but I can’t IMAGINE there’s any way in hell he stays with less than 6 wins (five is ridiculous). Next year’s schedule is 9 BigXii games and 3 non-cons, two of the non-cons are Texas State and New Mexico. Unless the other non-con is some BCS juggernaut, a five win season means 3 nc wins and Kansas plus one more. The only reason that EXACT SAME RECORD likely won’t get him canned THIS year is because some people think “2 years is too short”. But two straight seasons of 5 – 7 would be horrible for the program and terrible for ticket sales. And personally I just don’t think 6 – 6 is that much better especially since A&M will be gone. (if Tuberville beat the non-cons and all the Texas teams, that could’ve possibly bought him another year, but TCU doesn’t ignite the same passion as A&M did)
Keep in mind that TCU is not the kind of team that we want to be playing right now.
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Coached?
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
oh, I agree
They’re definitely not a team we WANT to play, but with new BigXii, they’re a team we WILL play, I’m just saying I don’t think getting 6 wins if one of the six is TCU will be as impactful as getting six wins when one of the six was A&M.
Heck, it was preLeach, but there was a time when beating aTm & UT in the same season was enough accomplishment that any other losses could’ve been “accepted”.
A big blowout Saturday night might push them over the edge...
If Baylor were to put a beat down whipping on Tech of the 66-6 variety…that might put an end to Tubbs…If the Missouri game had been another lop-sided loss…that discussion would already be taking place….If Tech shows up and competes against Baylor, win or lose, Tubs is safe for one more year and who knows how much improvement it would take next year for him to stick around. But if this season ends with a Baylor blowout on top of ISU, UT and OSU blowouts…the fire might just be too hot for Hance & Co to ignore.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
After the game I noticed the stat line that Tech led for 53 of 60 minutes of game-time or something to that effect
Sadly I got back to the house in time to watch those other minutes. It was kind of a sickening sense of inevitability watching Mizzou pound on a defense that has just totally lost its way, and then see the offense misfire during the last-ditch comeback drive. My takeaway was that while certain players’ individual failures were more visible than others, this was definitely a team failure. It’s probably a blessing in disguise that this team won’t go bowling, they need an extra month to lick their wounds.
OC speculation
Assuming that Tubs really is very uncomfortable with a wide open spread passing game, I’ll throw a name in the hat…Dana Dimel…currently co-OC at K-State. Was on the staff when our AD Holcutt played there. Dimel did not do well as the HC at Houston, but might fit in as the OC with Tubs. My gut tells me that Tubs likes K-State style football.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
K-State would be in a world of hurt if they didn't have a Mike Allstott-sized quarterback who can also throw reasonably well and has had the remarkable luck of not being injured
despite carrying the ball as much as he had. That offense is definitely a case of scheme following personnel, which speaks well of the coaches there doing what they have to with what’s available, but probably wouldn’t turn out well if you attempted to translate it wholesale.
Honestly, if it is a case of the head coach just being uncomfortable and unhappy with a spread offense, I’d prefer Tuberville just go ahead and install something he’s more comfortable working with, because his ultra-conventional game management style, which he shows no signs of abandoning, simply don’t match up with the offense that’s in place right now. It seems like the pendulum in the Big XII is already swinging back towards rtdb anyways, so you might as well be out on the leading edge of the trend instead of playing catchup. Something needs to change, obviously, because the current formula isn’t working.
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Holcutt will be a factor in the direction of this program....
Whatever happens, he will have major influence. He was a defensive player at K-State under Bob Stoops. I think we’ll see people with ties to K-State or Stoops come into the program. Which also says maybe Sumlin at Houston is on the radar screen…problem being that to get Sumlin we need to get him now. But he might hunker down at Houston just to see what happens at Tech (or A&M for that matter). Hate to admit it, but Sumlin may not see Tech as all that great of a move anyway.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
OK, so let's accept for a moment that this team is young
Young teams (at least well coached ones) would be expected to improve throughout the year. Clearly, this is not the case. A 5-7 record, while unacceptable, might have been tolerated if a late upswing in performance had left us with hope and optimism for next year.
Going into this week’s game vs. the nation’s #2 ranked offense, the Tech defense now stands (staggers?) at #115. Though no one thought it possible, this unit appears headed for a worse finish than last year’s 114th.
Expect Baylor to end its 15 game, life of the B12 streak of futility vs. the Raiders. And big.
Long painful season
This has been such a horrid season to endure. It had its moments or that should be moment of greatness against OU which only made the next games hurt even worse. There is something wrong here that we are not privy to. Something inside the team chemistry, the coaches chemistry, or both.
I believe we have talented young men playing and I also believe we have talented coaches but somehow the two when put together are falling flat. The offense we run success is so tied to a single player, the quarterback, that it has always been a little scary for me. It must really be scary for the quarterback. The offense is designed for you to count one one thousand, two one thousand, and the ball is thrown. The longer the ball is held past that the less effective the outcome. The last play that Doege had for all the world looked like the throw should have been made to the receiver that stopped at the goal line on the left. Doege hesitated a split second and disaster followed. I am not blaming Doege but rather the system that puts him into that position. I watched Harrell out of rhythm a few times and we had bad losses then also.
I will always support the team and coaches through thick and thin and as a 1977 graduate I have seen plenty of both. That is not to say that I might not throw a little party of Coach Tuberville saw fit to move on, but if he stays I will continue rooting for Tech as always. I do feel that the best shot at winning all the big games goes to the team that is balanced offensively to exploit the biggest weakness in whatever defense you are facing.
The biggest disappointment to me over the past two seasons has been the defense. We have to turn that around no matter what offensive scheme we run if you cannot stop the other team you will lose and lose often. How many times this season have running backs gone 7-10 yards before anyone even attempted to arm tackle them? How many touchdown runs from inside the fifteen were made without ever being touched? How many broken tackles went on for big gains? The defensive numbers this year and last have hurt the most.
Oh well maybe next year. Go Tech!
Good post...well said
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
I don't think this offense puts significantly more pressure on the QB than any other offense in college football
It’s always going to be the highest pressure position in the game simply by virtue of the fact that the ball is in their hands every play- the defining feature of successful offenses is that they typically limit what they ask of the quarterback, whether that be to hand the ball off most the time and then make a handful of downfield throws to (hopefully) wide open receivers, make a large quantity of easier throws with pass patterns of 4 or more receivers, or to be a running threat alongside the tailback in an option look. That’s just how the game gets played and you live or die based on those decisions.
A better way to look at is that when your team as a whole is bad, the level of play you require from your QB in order to win goes up drastically- so far this season we are 1-1 in games where the rest of the team played poorly and required Doege to make a game-winning throw to the endzone in the final seconds. Doege’s not the second coming, but the team’s record isn’t completely a reflection of his quality either.
by mojavereject on Nov 21, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with everything you said.
Hope and pray that Dr.Cane is right. Fire Tuberville. Go Bears. I hate to be that way.
Directv #613
RT @BlayneBeal: CBS Confidential: Texas Tech Football will air tonight at 7 p.m. CT on CBS College Sports. You don’t want to miss it.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 4:49 PM CST reply actions
Oh yes I do
Saturday was enough till next week.
I will need a full report, I don’t CBS College Sports channel .
Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.
by FriscoRaider on Nov 21, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
The name of the show is College Football Confidential - It's a half hour devoted to Texas Tech
I’m recording it. No clue what it will cover.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Please...
tell us what it covers. Hope it’s not just an infomercial.
It was a pretty straightforward recap of the fball season so far, capped by fly on the wall coverage of Missouri week
The theme was Charles Dicken’s “A Tale of Two Seasons”. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. I would have loved it had this season gone a little better. It’s just depressing watching the halftime coaches speeches knowing how ineffective they are.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
QB is the lifeblood of our offense
Our entire offense is built on the premise of attacking the defense through short quick well timed throws. Our running game is built on the premise that our passing game has the defense on their heels and stopping the run is not the defense’s main concern. If the qb has an off night and misses the recievers, holds the ball too long, or just throws many interceptions the entire offense comes to a grinding halt. We are not going to run the ball effectively because we do not have a passing threat that night. All ten other players on the offense can perform their duties to perfection very play but if the qb does not make the right read or an accurate throw the play gains nothing. No matter how well the other ten players execute the qb has to have a good night.
Teams that can pass very effectively and run the ball effectively have the option when the qb is slumping to line up and run the ball, here the other ten players can pick up and cover for the qb having an off night. This just is not possible using an offense that everything is built around the ability to pass the ball first and run second. I do not hold Doege to blame on his off days, a loss on those days are just a byproduct of the system. We have not had a qb yet that did not have at least a few off days that led to a loss.
Combine the qb off day with a horrible defensive effort and you get the really ugly losses that we have experienced this year.
Feldman tweet
Expect Rich Rodriguez to be named the next Arizona head coach in the next 48 hours according to sources.
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 5:05 PM CST reply actions
makes sense
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
If RR's being hired...
Maybe the Cap’n’s not far behind.
Cool tech flyover link
This is a 3 ring circus up in here......
by oldschoolraider on Nov 21, 2011 5:08 PM CST reply actions
Cool stuff
They might have saved us all some misery if they had dropped a little ordnance.
"I’ve established a reputation for integrity. I have maintained those high standards" - Craig James
Nice view of Clapp park.
I missed this one.
All I know is that I am voting with my feet.
I am not going to attend another game until Tubby is fired, and no more donations period. If Tubby proves me wrong, then I will double my contributions in 2013.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
by Btech on Nov 21, 2011 5:31 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I haven’t contributed to the program, the alumni association or bought any gear since Leach was fired and I never got a good explanation…..
Amen, bro!
No season tix next year or later, until Tubs hauls ass!
I saw it too.
Interesting perspective.
by Techcuz on Nov 21, 2011 7:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
BTW...
SBNation already reporting Rich Rod as the new UArizona coach.
Well,
this program is just rolling throught the excuses … the wind (needs a tight spiral ball) … young … injuries.
Now Tubby’s talking about how he is “throwing the ball” down field, not those short little 15 yrd passes.
I’m getting mad all over again. Woe is me.
Random playcalling
The “angry rabbit” defensive formation.
Maybe should have been the “Hungry Walrus”
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