DTN Daily Diatribe | Texas Tech News, Notes and Links | 2011-09-21
by Seth C on Sep 21, 2011 6:09 AM CDT
in Texas Tech News, Notes and Links
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Conference realignment links are after the jump.
TEXAS TECH FOOTBALL
Tech keeping penalties at minimum | Red Raiders
This is interesting, LAJ's Williams writes a bit about the difference, or the fact that there may not have been any difference, as to how Tuberville and Leach treated players who garnered penalties during games. Leach frequently said that he didn't think that penalties mattered, that teams could overcome penalties and by punishing penalties, they would create players being cautions and non-aggressive. Here's RT Mickey Okafor:
"He just ripped us," Okafor said. "It was like he was waiting for you to get a penalty so he could get on you."
"Every coach makes a big deal about it," said senior defensive tackle Chris Perry, referring to both Tech staffs. "We just hold ourselves accountable, I guess. I don’t really know if there’s a difference who stresses it more. It’s just, as a team, I know we’re trained better than that. We’re disciplined. Not saying we weren’t with Leach, but nobody wants to do anything to take away from the team. We’re just trying to win."
The differece?
Under Leach, players who were flagged for penalties on Saturday might do body rolls up and down the field after Sunday’s practice. A player might be absolved of the punishment if coaches disagreed with the penalty flag.
And now?
Tech players don’t want to be written up on the "NOS" sheet — that stands for "Not Our Standards" — and show up on the accompanying video.
"It’s just the embarrassment of being on the penalty film now," Okafor said. "They show everything from penalties to broken plays. Like if you did something that he didn’t coach you to do, he rewinds and looks at them. ... I’m not saying it’s aiming to embarrass us. It’s aiming for us to do right. The goal for every player is to not get on the NOS, because as a player it’s embarrassing to see your name on the list."
Red Raider football notebook: Perry coming on | Red Raiders
I've noticed DT Chris Perry playing well thus far and he's showed up quite a bit more on the field:
Perry said, "Coaches told me in the offseason, ‘You can do anything you want. You can do anything we ask in this defense. We’ve just got to get you to slim down so we can have you playing every play.’
"I took their advice," Perry continued. "Joe Walker got me right, held me real accountable on my weight. I got my weight down, kept it down, got stronger. They transformed me to a whole different person in the offseason."
VIDEO: Tuberville talks to media after practice Tuesday | Red Raiders
A Tech Time-Out with Brittany Endlich and Alex Torres - YouTube
I feel like I'm watching a date with WR Alex Torres and Brittany Endlich. Torres looks incredibly comfortable and totally awesome. Internet high-five Alex:
A Tech Time-Out with Brittany Endlich and Alex Torres (via RedRaiderTV)
Wolf Pack football: Nevada seeks consistency, points in red zone | Reno Gazette-Journal | rgj.com
I wrote earlier this week that Nevada had a mediocre performance against Oregon and I really worded that poorly. I should have written that the lack of Nevada to score is what was mediocre, the actual rushing attack of Nevada is incredible, but they just haven't been able to put the ball into the endzone. Nevada head coach Chris Ault:
"That short-yardage stuff, I was really, really disappointed in it," Wolf Pack coach Chris Ault said. "There's no excuses for that. Our football team, that's what we're about -- short-yardage and going for it on fourth down and making it. That's been the success of our program. There wasn't any individual or individuals. We just had poor timing between our quarterback, back and front with the blocking scheme."
The Numerical: Comebacks, Interceptions And A Dink-And-Dunk Masterpiece - SBNation.com
QB Seth Doege gets a mention in Bill Connelly's Numerical:
Incompetions thrown by Texas Tech quarterback Seth Doege against New Mexico on Saturday. That is almost always impressive (unless you're Kevin Prince). But when you miss four times in 44 passes? That's, uh, good. His final line: 40-for-44, 401 yards, five touchdowns, zero picks, zero sacks.
TEXAS TECH BASKETBALL
Daylen Robinson, JC PG to TTU with class of 2012 - Double-T Nation
Good find by TallMike. Don't ask me how the roster works. I have no answers, but I might try to do something next week.
Strength and conditioning coach leaves men's basketball - Sports - The Diamondback - University of Maryland
This is a bit odd, but Maryland's strength and conditioning coach, Paul Ricci, has left the Maryland program and will be the strength and conditioning coach for Texas Tech.
CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT
This is the reason why I didn't get too excited or too depressed no matter the news. Last year, I was taken for a ride and I told myself that it wouldn't happen again. I never really got caught up in the rumors and I think that I did a better job of not thinking that anything was a done deal until the ink was dry. I still don't really think that any of this is over, but it may be put to bed for a period of time. If anything, I think what it means when the Pac-12 comes out and says that they're not expanding is that Texas is the linchpin. I always thought that Texas Tech was tied to Texas, but I did sorta think that Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. possibly had stand-alone invites to the Pac-12. That was just a guess. But when the NY Times blog came out as far as fans and you start to realize how little in terms of televisions and fans (relatively speaking) that OU and OSU bring to the table, it makes a heck of a lot more sense. OU, despite being a national power for a long time, only has about 200,000 more fans and OSU has a shade over 700,000 fans. I think that if the Pac-12 is going to expand, and as confirmed by Wilner and Schroeder, is that it's all four teams under the Pac-12's terms, or nothing. Time to start figuring out how to work together.
"Pac-12 decides NOT to expand" | Opinions on Sports with George Schroeder | The Register-Guard | Pac-12 Conference: League announces it will NOT expand (updated) | College Hotline
Schroeder and Wilner with thoughts on the Pac-12 not expanding and it all hinged on the thought that UT didn't want to give up on the Longhorn Network so the thought of expanding was never even voted.
Superconferences still on hold as Pac-12 stays put - College Football - Rivals.com
The key words from Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott are in bold:
"After careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference," Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement. "While we have great respect for all of the institutions that have contacted us, and certain expansion proposals were financially attractive, we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve."
Pac-12 stays put, limiting options for OU and OSU | NewsOK.com
Tentative plan for Mizzou to join SEC, Auburn would move to East, sources say | al.com
This was linked yesterday and as many of you mentioned, I would dislike a Big 12 without Missouri.
Blame it on ESPN | 24/7 Sports | Bobby Burton
I can't remember who said it yesterday, but someone was thinking that this article from 24/7 Sports Bobby Burton was more spin from the UT side of things. Burton is the original founder of Rivals, sold out, and then started 24/7 Sports. He is all about the SEC, so I don't think there's any bias, and I also think that what Burton wrote is almost exactly what was said in the article posted late yesterday afternoon, that OU wanted Beebe out, and they want UT to give in on the issues with the LHN.
DeepShadesofBlue.com - Source: BYU Poised to Join Big 12
Well, that was quick.
Pan's Plan: Acquire New Teams - Bring On The Cats
The only other thing that I would add to Panjandrum's plan is that I would add TCU. TCU should have been added last year to replace Nebraska or Colorado. They're not a huge school and they don't have a huge television audience, but this just makes too much sense.
Pac-12 won't expand; Big 12 only option for OU, OSU? | Tulsa World
A couple of interesting quotes from the Tulsa World on OU's leverage, or lack thereof, and that the Big 12 official, thinks that they hope to keep TAMU (I highly doubt it):
But with the Pac-12's decision Tuesday night, Big 12 leadership might make one final push to keep the Aggies. Beebe's ouster might be the play that makes A&M change its mind.
OU would accept an interim commissioner, the World's source said, but wants Beebe gone immediately and wants the Big 12 to conduct a national search for its next commissioner.
The World's source said Tuesday there was no discussion on the table about the Sooners and Cowboys joining the Southeastern Conference and that the Big 12 and the Pac-12 were the only options for the two schools.
The source said any differences in revenue between the Big 12 and Pac-12 were "a wash."
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Comments
Alex Torres- You are my hero.
I do hope OU has leverage with the SEC or another conference to can the B12 and UT along with it. SEC + 4 works for me (TTU, OU, OSU, TAMU)
Throw first and ask questions later.
Awesome video
Only problem is the very ending where Brittany talks about this upcoming game. She uses words that were coined by the Evil Empire in a branding campaign in Austin about their fans game attendance and attitude. We have to do better than that.
I like where your head is at
I think what you say above would make a lot of sense and it gets Tech away from the crap UT is trying to push on the conference for the last year. Overall I think Tech moving to a more stable conference is in the best interest of our school, and the fact we would leave UT high and dry is just a bonus.
by sburnett1855 on Sep 21, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
_(^*&$))&(#^%^^@$
*()(^&$E%^&IGY_(^*)#$&$^
I still blame UT for everything bad that ever happened to BIG-12 and SWC. But water has gone under the bridge, time to start over and make a better version of BIG-12. AND CONTINUE TO IMPROVE TTU in EVERY WAY. Sorry, the coffee just kicked in.
Split UT and OU into different divisions. They should always be split. OU to the north, UT to the south. BYU to the north.
Losing A&M and Mizzou sucks. Get two more schools now. Get a new commish, and if LHN does not become BIG-12 network then tell ut they will get the same terms that were being offered by PAC-12. Just do everything exactly like the PAC-12. EVERYTHING financial that is. If UT still rules unfairly in the revised BIG-12, I want out as soon as we can find a better deal.
It’s pretty evident we can’t get out. I hear you and agree but we are stuck here and probably missed the second train west. I seriously doubt the PAC takes any of these talks serious again with all these institutional leaders playing it out in front of the media.
Bring on Airforce, BYU, Boise………….
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Announce a Big 12 TV Network Today
It’s how Microsoft always freezes a market. They announce a product that they haven’t even started to create so the market puts their plans on hold to buy that type of software until the have an MS product to evaluate. Cable companies are all still on the fence about the LHN. If they think a Big 12 Network will be on the air in time for the 2012 football season, they have a reason to wait before adding LHN. It is in the best interests of every member of the Big 12 except UT that the LHN fail. We need to create its competition.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Genius
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Brrrrrrrilliant!
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Better Yet, we can call it the Copy Cat Network.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
If the Big 10, The SEC & The Pac 12 can fund a conference network, The Big 12 can fund one
Hell, an existing TV partner will fund the startup, just ask UT about that. This is not a pipe dream. This is basic conference survival. 9 of the 10 teams in the Big 12 are the only 9 teams among the 4 major conferences without a conference cable network today. It’s time to get it up and running.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
I’ll be announcing my candidacy for Big 12 Commissioner in the near future.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
by Seth C on Sep 21, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Got my vote.
But, I wouldn’t envy you at all.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Once pon a time A&M cried "SEC"
And B12 begged them to stay. Again A&M cried SEC and B12 begged. Do you think they can afford to stay again? When UT does something else the SEC will not ask a 3rd time. They have only two options – stay or go – and staying closes their door to leave again. At least until the Big 12 breaks up and they are forced to leave.
By that time the SEC may have expanded to 16. Then what 4 teams does the PAC take to get to 16?
we
Will be watching everyone trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube…
"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me
by oldschoolraider on Sep 21, 2011 7:55 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
.
Reminds me of college when you would wake up in the morning hungover after having a drunken argument with a roommate. Do you go out of your room and apologize and get it out of the way, or just avoid each other for a day or two and pretend it never happened?
Not a fun position to be in, but enjoyable to watch in a car crash sort of way.
by Raiders on the Storm on Sep 21, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Penalties
I am very pleased at the attention to details this team has. The foundation it is building will continue to be strong. Hats off to the coaches and players for controlling what they can. Little things can mean the difference between a win and loss in some games.
Guns Up!
Agreed. They are playing better, have learned the system on offense better, and not making many huge mistakes on D.
It will take a while, but I see the team improving bit-by-bit, and I like the direction they are headed.
by RRaider5355 on Sep 21, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Should have just kept quiet
All these school leaders just need to shut up and stay the course if they want to exit a conference. Borin’s statements yesterday were golden but no doubt let Larry Scott know that OU’s intentions were full of holes. The PAC doesn’t want to be leveraged to make for a better Big 12. The deal is dead because Scott doesn’t want to be played for the fool a second year in a row. I think it’s silly that we all talk about moving on and then we keep hearing “save the Big 12” by some school who gets a little power shift. Texas isn’t going to change no matter what. OU should have just kept pushing for the west and this thing would have been done. Instead we get lots of muscle flexing that gets us nowhere. Now we are stuck in a conference with members that hate each other for likely another 5 years or until some other member decides to move on. All I learned through this is that we desparately need Tier one status and it can make a difference with realignment. I’m tired of hearing on the radio about how conference won’t accept Tech because of academics. It shouldn’t matter but it apparently does.
So now what? A disfunctional conference pieced together by a bunch of greedy idiots. Congrats to A&M even though it may mean they drop off the college football landscape. At least they made a decision and didn’t flake around with ways to save the Big 12. This news about the PAC closing the door on expansion really sucks for Tech. Lets hope the in the next round we are better prepared I guess.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
by Raider1992 on Sep 21, 2011 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
For all of the bitching, because our leaders (apparently) weren't doing anything.......
…. does everyone understand now why being silent was golden?
Tech speaking was not going to influence this think one way or another. Let others look like fools publicly. Tech does not have leverage and therefore Tech officials can not back up anything. At best, they get lucky and guess right – all other scenarios just make them (and by extension – us) look stupid.
While I am not a big admin fan – I’m not too proud to acknowledge when they do something right – I am very grateful for how they behaved (publicly) in this round. Nobody respects a blowhard. If ever there was a life lesson in all of this from the Tech side – here it is.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
by Dunka on Sep 21, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Correct
Our team was definitely the clear winner as far as saving face. We didn’t make public statements that changed the tide and we didn’t put ourselves in a damage control situation. I do think we handled things properly and I’m sure we tried to take every advantage of trying to get out but came up short.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
I am more interested in winning the war and not the battle.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
by Btech on Sep 21, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't really say that these schools do not want to go West ?
That there is something, something they see as important, that keeps them thinking middle America even with a really bad marriage partner ?
Without some very concrete way to get UT to hold to any agreement, like the LHN’s content vis a vis high school football, all they have to do is sit in a conference and blink when a complaint is voiced—after a while almost any one can become immune to hearing F U shouted at them.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
That is a silver lining if one wants Tech to move on. If Tech can continue to have a resurgence in the other sports while (most importantly) improving academically, we should be in a better position if and when there is another reshuffle.
by bflood36 on Sep 21, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The difference in coaching to avoid getting penalties
I think I am reading that the punitive measure did not work but the effort to teach for improvement does.
Living large in Texas...Texas forever.
by TallMike on Sep 21, 2011 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So if the Big 12 is gonna stay (which I’m fine with) who the hell are we gonna add? WVU, BYU, Boise, TCU? Gonna have to get on the ball.
I would go with BYU, TCU and Boise State for 10-12.
Maybe West Virginia and Louisville (or Cincinnati) for 13-14.
All of the above!!!!!
And a new commish and all of the demands that OU made. I could live with that.
by RRaider5355 on Sep 21, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I just heard on the ticket that Texas doesn't want TCU
Here we go again. What if the rest of us want TCU? Texas is still getting their way. Why don’t we just have a 9-1 vote to kick texas out. Aggie and Mizzou still have a vote.
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
Because you have 4 teams scared to death that UT will go somewhere else if they don't get everything they want.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
What if we get rid of there sorry ass and that's enough to keep aggie and tiger?
I’m sure it blows up the TV deal, but I’m tired of texas. I was a top 10% high school kid (nothing impressive considering where I’m from) and I had my choice of schools way back when. I’m SOOOO glad I never considered Texas. I would be so embarassed right now to be an alumnus of that school. The whole country hates them and for good reason. It’s sad really, I hope all of these “perception” based US News and World Report type of rankings start trending down for Texas because of an overall perception of their greed. I’m just so effing tired of them.
I know that we have no viable option presently because we depend on that 10-15mm we get, But I also know that we are one of the best 30-40 athletic programs in the country and we belong in a big conference.
F Texas!
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
Like the Yankees!
You either love them or totally despise them! tu is so unappealing that I would rather kiss an aggie (and that ain’t going to happen).
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Texas is going to be insufferable in discussing any issues regarding the current conference
TCU does not bring a lot when compared to the old Big 12. Now we barely have a pot to piss in, we need help and TCU is as good as anybody else left.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Nobody worth a sh&t is going to come to the Big 12
We are decorating the inside of a trash can at this point. Beggars can’t be choosers. Boise & TCU paid their dues by playing over & over again on Thursday night ESPN to raise their program profiles. That & they won enough games to get BCS at-large invites. They deserve a chance to join the big leagues. Screw UT, out vote them on everything & make them go independent. Nobody has any illusions about how badly they play well with others at this point, so lets stop indulging them. If Larry Scott said anything last night it is this: UT is not fit to be a member of a stable BCS conference. We need to stop treating them like they have a decent plan B available when it’s obvious they don’t. Force them to quit.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Doege
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
tu still calling the shots per realignment!
Obviously Pac-12 wants the “fatted calf” or nothing at all. Only getting Texas justified OU, OSU & Tech and tu would not give in on its LHN!
Now I thought the lastest suggestion of the possible PAC-16 with the pods would have been very good for Tech but I have to admit that due to travel, time zones AND the superior possibility of a conference title made me want to have a revised & improved Big 12 survive. Beebe needs to go, he did sit on his hands and worship at the feet of Bevo letting Nebraska and A&M go without doing anything. The opportunity is here NOW to get concessions from tu. Oklahoma may have lost leverage with the PAC-12 pulling out but not if 8 other members have their back (including Tech even though we have stayed tied to Texas’ hip through all of this). You can add BYU (good add). You can add TCU (good add after losing A&M). And you can possibly add WVU with all of the Big East hoopla. If not WVU then Louisville (good add). Back at 12 members!
Backing up a bit you of course have to get the remaining 9 committed uping exit fees and time frames as deterents and make sure Missouri is on-board. They have been belly aching for years and flaunted it in our faces last year and was left at the alter. Now they act like they are all gun-ho but what about the SEC report last night. If they bail now then s*$@ has hit the fan per any quality Big 12 conference.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 8:53 AM CDT reply actions
well if mizzou and aggie bolt
that might cause the conference to collapse and make ut rethink their stance and still PAC a possibility. If aggie and mizzou leave, Texas goes independent, maybe PAC takes us 3 and someone else.
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
Big 12
I’m not sure any schools will look at the Big 12 as a good place to be. TCU is probably better off seeing what happens in the Big East before looking this way. BYU probably thinks they are better off where they are now.
It’s going to take some really good PR and marketing to make the Big 12 look attractive to the larger schools at this point. The only schools I see today are current non-AQ programs that might see it as an advantage. Lastly, no doubt Dan Beebe needs to resign and equal revenue among Big 12 members has to happen or else we are no better off.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
UT, OU, Okla St, TTU, Missouri…there are still some very good football schools here. I think WVU, TCU and Boise State would jump to come into the Big12. Look at the Top 20 now (OU, OSU, UT) and last season (TCU and Boise State). That is not too bad.
There are some good schools left I agree but nothing like it once was. Missouri is probably gone as well.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Brady Deaton from Missouri seems committed to the Big12, but it is going to be very difficult for them to turn down an SEC invite. Losing Missou would be devastating.
They would be a fool to turn down SEC invite.
Even if Big 12 survives another round, OU and OSU will figure it out. The Big will never be stable until:
1. Equal Revenue Sharing.
2. LHN merged into Big 12 Network.
3. New Commish.
OU has as much as said it. I really have come to appreciate OU administration.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
TCU doesn't bring anything to the table
Neither does Boise State for that matter. WVU and Louisville are better options.
you would be crazy Skin...
Boise has a great FB team lately, but #1, they have little else and #2 (more importantly) they are WAY out in BFE for this conference. If we were in the PAC they’d be a good fit, and if some of us joined the MWC they’re already there, but adding them would be a tough sell.
I think they've been good enough, for long enough
that they have immense value because they draw national eyeballs. The networks televise Boise State games. Good example is Boise State-Toledo this year. Do you think Texas Tech-Toledo is on ESPN this year? Can you recall a year when we were ranked high enough preseason in which Texas Tech-Toledo would be televised?
As the standing BSU homer on the DTN board.
I shutter at the thought of my Red Raiders and my Broncos playing each other, I will need ALL.THE.WHISKEY to get through the game.
That being said, BSU would jump at the chance and I think the Big 12 is going to have an easier time persuading MWC teams to jump ship over Big East schools, TCU notwithstanding. BSU is a small school, but has parlayed their “little school that could” standing in to eyeballs across the nation. People, IMO, would tune in to see if they can cut in a Big Boys league.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
WVU
That would be a great replacement for A&M.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Agreed but......
It will take one hell of a PR job but very possible because BYU want AQ conference, TCU is going to one but it might implode too and their preference is Big 12 if it is an option. If not Louisville then Boise State or even Air Force.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Equal Rev
That won’t happen. You’ll see OU and UT soon discussing how those 2 can make more money and the hell with others. Someones gotta pay Bob’s increase.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
And...
What happens when OU and UT are top-heavy all over again? I see them getting all the little benefits.Then we have this problem all over again when they get a sweet offer from some conferece.I don’t see how reviving the B12 fixes this problem at all. Also, I don’t see how this solves anything when one member (UT) will consistently just bail when they feel like it.
This
Nothing changed and don’t expect miracles anytime soon.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Agreed!
If all they wanted was concessions they probably could have built a consensus with other conference members. Even an aggie would not come back now after everything that has been said and done.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed also
Same for UT- that’s one reason we’re all in this mess.
Throw first and ask questions later.
To be honest
I wish we could go with the Aggies. I just do not trust the future with ut.
ut is "The Evil Empire"
+1
And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
by dryroastedsean on Sep 21, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
A&M has had nothing to do with us so far and will do nothing to help us in the future. Just like being with tu except they are aggies!
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
No big brother in SEC
Equal ground for all teams so no one is under another.
The Ags may be a strange bunch but we could obtain SEC acceptance on our own- Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Throw first and ask questions later.
Yep
Anything AQ at this point would be an upgrade. UT just renewed their lease time for the Big 12.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Gagree....
Unless we do something really significant during tu’s new lease option term, we will be poorly positioned for the next round of realignment…
Aggies at least get to succeed ot fail on their own terms in a stable conference…arguably the premier conference in many ways… man, I’m going to hate hearing about that from them in the foreseeable future…
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't really matter to me.....
what conference at this point TTU is in as long it is an AQ conference……I’m just tired of all this “stuff”!!!!!!!!……Living in sec land I don’t want to be in the sec as they are as arrogent as the teasips and I don’t want to tied to atm either cause when they get over here they will reminding the whole sec of the movie “Deliverence” as they are the mountain people!!!!!!……atm may fit in over here in some ways but as I’ve said before not too many folks will be excited about the “yell leaders” and once they see the atm half-time show they will get bored with it!!!! Free Scotty Now! Wreck’Em Tech
The Quad Blog
We’re all treating the Quad Blog’s metrics of fanbases as sacrosanct, I think in large part due to some massive confirmation bias. I’ll return to that in a moment…
But assuming it is accurate, adding BYU is a net-loss for the Big 12. We average, without A&M, something like 900K fans a team, and BYU has 700K fans (according to The Quad Blog) so it stands to reason that we’d get less money per team by adding them than we would by standing pat at 9.
Although I’m skeptical of the numbers, I do think it’s a real possibility that we simply can’t add teams to the Big XII that will improve our per year revenues because there are no available teams. The ones we want to poach don’t exist, or won’t come to the Big XII. In other words, BYU might have more to gain from the move than us.
Returning to the Quad Blog’s metrics, it is based literally on the frequency of the google search term “college football”—a phrase I’ve never searched for in my entire life, despite being a pretty rabid college football fan, meaning there is at least one college football fan for whom the data does not account.
Then you’ve got some facially questionable conclusions, like the fact that Florida State is a less popular football team than Texas Tech, Virginia, or Boston College, or UNC, or Kentucky, or Minnesota. Or that Duke football is somehow more popular than NC State, which I find preposterous. Or that Iowa State football is more popular than Colorado, Arizona, Boise State, Maryland, NC State, or Kansas State for that matter… something just looks broken here.
Maybe I’m guilty of confirmation anti-bias, but I also can’t accept that Texas Tech is the third most popular team in the DFW area, either, which simply doesn’t pass the smell test.
I don’t take those numbers as the Gospel, but it’s the only thing that I’ve seen that tried to figure out what a school might bring in terms of fanbase and televisions. I just haven’t seen anything that has remotely tried to put together that sort of data (this should be someone’s thesis at Texas Tech) in a well-researched format.
I too don’t think that BXII can just add any team, that the team needs to help with television markets, but those types of teams are shrinking day-by-day. The BXII has to get to at least 10 (I think to keep AQ status). Something has to be done, but I’m not sure what that is.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I should add that I do think TTU is the 3rd most popular team in the DFW area, but that’s based off a hunch and nothing concrete, hence the need for someone to do a thesis.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
When TCU is winning, they are definitely the 3rd team in Tarrant County. I also think that Tech is #3 in Dallas, Denton and Collin.
I find that hard to believe
With such a tiny alumni base, I find it very hard to believe that TCU will be that popular even if they win the national championship.
In the Fort Worth area they have been very popular the past few seasons. Lots of purple being worn on Fridays and Saturdays. Now, when they weren’t very good it was another story. It is not just the alumni that are fans, they are thought of a Fort Worth’s home team. I would like them to be in the conference because that would be another Tech stop in the D/FW area every two seasons. Selfish, I know.
Ft Worth...
gets behind the team more than their fans or alumni for the most part. I have family on that side of town and all I heard was “go TCU” when they were winning. I guess you could equate it to UT’s tee shirt fans but at a much smaller consolidated scale. Loads of business and city officials play TCU up in the area.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Seth, don't forget Central and South Texas as well;
I know we don’t have stats to back up how many Tech Fans there are, but it is not just DFW in Texas. There are more than 7 million people who live in the Designated Market Areas (DMA – TV markets), and there are a lot of Tech Fans. And I did not include El Paso.
San Antonio DMA – 37th TV market
SAN ANTONIO DMA – 37th TV Market 2,458,268
AUSTIN DMA – 44th TV Market 1,858,857
WACO/TEMPLE/BRYAN DMA 976,405
HARLINGEN/MCALLEN/BROWNSVILLE DMA 1,264,091
CORPUS CHRISTI DMA 576,580
TOTALS 7,134,201
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
sorry about formatting, do not know what I did wrong.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
The plural of anecdote is not data
but I’ve spent a lot of time in DFW, lived there, and I can’t accept that TTU is the third most popular team. We’re at least the second.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I completely agree that we need to add someone.
I actually think BYU is more valuable than just their fan numbers as reflected in the Quad Blog’s metrics. We need to get back to 12 for a championship game, and pronto, because we’re leaving a lot of money on the table with that.
I’m sad because I don’t think we can add anyone who is going to make us rich, and now it appears we can’t go anywhere that is going to make us rich. We’ve been making less than the SEC, the ACC, the Big 10, and the Pac-12 for a while now, and it looks like that’s going to continue in perpetuity, despite the fact that we’re competitive with all those leagues.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Adding teams
I think adding BYU is a given to get conference back to 10 teams. It is a good PR move, helps stability and I think is a good add per the national exposure it always gets. Adding anyone else at this time is more predicated that we might get a quality school from the Big East will it is in flux more than a have to. Getting WVU and Louisville would strengthen league.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
On the bright side....
if BYU does join the Big** we’d only have to activate our highly skilled regiment of big-haired West Texas hottie temptresses…..and their entire football team would be forced to resign in shame.
by ForestFlyer on Sep 21, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Secret weapon
Tech co-eds in Daisy Dukes, boots, mid-rifs and cowboy hats!. Gives any man a spiritual awakening……..
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Nor do I believe...
Aggy has more fans in DFW than does tu.
BIG 12
Needs to fix the problem before they lose another team.
Still in the same boat. Schools want to leave and nobody wants to join this conference.
Not with the special treatment given to UT. BIG 12 Conference needs to be overhauled to be stable. Share revenue to equalize the playing field.
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it is nearly impossible to discern if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
With the PAC offer off the table does UT really have to do anything? OU has no leverage in enforcing the agreement.
OU needs the other 7 members of the Big 12 to stand with it against tu and make it agree to changes.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Do we?
Since we replaced them as tu’s red-headed step child we may have no friends in Wacko.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but 4 of those votes are scared to death that UT will leave if they don't get their way.
It’s a key part of the dynamic that enables this dynamic.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Yes, because Conference Realignmen is not over; with unequal revenue sharing and LHN worked out, Big 12 will fall.
This is just a pause, all the Thorns get today is a day or two to brag. CR is going to heat back up again soon. I belive the Conference Commissioners are so fragmented that the WSL decided to pause, but once Larry Scott can show them the money, OU and OSU will be gone, and hopefull Tech along with them.
I believe now is the time for all Big 12 members to speak out and make it know how
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
I said this in another post this morning, but bares repeating.
If MO leaves today, and OU and UT manage to keep the Big 12 together…… who else will ever leave?
Yes, it’s a watered down conference. But who else has the cache to be invited to anything better? If MO and A&M are gone and OU and UT keep it together – and the Big 12 adds say BYU, TCU and Air Force – then, what event happens in the future that causes the Big 12 to fall apart?
Maybe there is no love lost between programs going forward, but doesn’t this inadvertently create stability? (In a backward ass way)
OU and UT will be making a ton of money, will have an easy path to the BCS and will still have disproportionate influence over a BCS AQ conference. They aren’t going anywhere.
This version of the Big 12 may actually last for a long time. Love it or hate it.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Well
Why would we want it to last for a long time? The WAC has lasted for a long time, too, much longer than the Big XII. I don’t want to be in the WAC, though.
The Big XII will continue to be the poorest major conference, and we can’t make it competitive (financially) by adding the likes of BYU, TCU, and Air Force.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn't say I wanted it. I want to be in the Pac 16. Not presuming anyone wants or doesn't want it...
I just said that what occurred to me. Logically, for me, it seems like a very real possibility.
I put it out there because at this time – it seems like the most likely scenario to me.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Here's an issue...
if it is still a conference with valuable members (OU and Texas) but that makes less money than other major conferences, there’s a huge incentive for teams like OU and Texas to bolt to some other conference, because they can make more money elsewhere. That’s not NECESSARILY true for Texas, since they have a cool extra 10M per year on their LHN, and assuming it survives (which I don’t) maybe they have a good reason to stick around.
But OU doesn’t. The more the Big XII moves towards equal revenue sharing, the less money OU makes, because we’ll always be poorer than the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac-12. At some point, one of those teams is going to poach OU, and we’ll be right back to square one, which is trying to find a place in a major conference.
This thing won’t last because it can’t, because the uneven distribution of wealth between conferences creates huge incentives for OU to leave, because it can make money elsewhere. That’s exactly what we’re seeing with Missouri→SEC right now. Every team that can improve its lot by leaving the Big XII will do so, which means we can’t even collect, or keep, the kinds of teams that can make the Big XII worthwhile. We’re in the middle of one big long domino effect the ends with the Big XII dead.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
SEC already looks to be going to 14+...
If Pac and/or B1G follow at some point in order to be comparable… TU and/or Oklahoma will get offered again….
Questions: Will the patched up B12-3-x be more stable then? Will it survive another round of realigment? Will TU think they can go indy at some point? What’s Tech’s options if another round starts?
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
But again, at that point OU/UT will be in a great situation...
..even if the rest of the Big 12 isn’t. Why would either leave for anywhere? The big 12 would be stable and the two schools would control the purse strings and be raking in at rates comparable to what they’d get from any other major conference. No one else would have the cache to leave. They have a straight shot to the BCS and keep the RRR.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Re:
But again, at that point OU/UT will be in a great situation…
..even if the rest of the Big 12 isn’t. Why would either leave for anywhere?
OU is not in a great situation, which is why they want out so bad. OU makes less money from its conference affiliation than Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Wake Forest. How can you reconcile that with OU’s national brand? How can OU justify that result enough to stay in the Big XII? A&M couldn’t, Nebraska couldn’t, and Colorado couldn’t. Now Missouri can’t.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
See below.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
I still don’t think UT has the clout to go Indy. ND has a religious and national following, and that is why they have been successful. I would think that BYU would be looking to get into a conference pretty soon just because they aren’t going to be able to float their other sports programs without a big TV contract.
How can it be more stable?
This is about money, and at the end of the day we have less of it. That’s why Nebraska left. That’s why Colorado left. That’s why A&M left. That’s why Missouri is leaving. That’s why OU and OSU wanted to leave. This isn’t about Beebe, or the LHN, it’s about MONEY MONEY MONEY. We don’t have it in the Big XII, because other conferences are more valuable, probably due to demographic realities that can’t be fixed by adding BYU or TCU.
This thing was doomed when Nebraska bolted, which was really just a symptom of preexisting problems with the unholy alliance of the Big 8 and the SWC. The Big 8 was never viable on its own. Oklahoma and Nebraska were always more valuable without Iowa State, Kansas State, Missouri, etc. than they were with, just like Texas and Texas A&M were always more valuable without Baylor than with. Without the historical ties that bind, say, an SEC to a Vanderbilt, this was inevitable.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
We have less, yes. But if UT and OU have anything comparable to what they could make elsewhere....
…why would they leave. As I said before – no one else has the ability to leave even if they wanted to at that point. The fear is that UT sees this and makes sure OU keeps pace against other conferences – not for OU’s sake, but as insurnace it can keep the LHN.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
I'm saying OU doesn't have anything comparable to what it could make elsewhere
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And I'd add that it will get worse before it gets better
because we’re “replacing” Nebraska with BYU and A&M with TCU. We’re losing ground, and our television contracts will reflect that. We look more like the WAC today than we did yesterday.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I think I read somewhere that if Texas and OU stayed;
that the TV contract would not be changed.
But I also think we should go get three Big East Footbal Schools. West Virginia just got stood up twice, they are right for taking. I also think Louisville is perfect as well. Just not sure on the third.
Not a fan of BYU, just don’t think they fit into our league.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Re:
Ostensibly there are circumstances under which the contract will not stay, even if UT and OU do. UT and OU do not get to split a $1B+ contract between the two of them if everyone else in the Big XII bolts. Contracts are always moving targets.
West Virginia is the best team available, or close to it. Louisville would not help us at all, in any way, except as a place-holder to get to 12 for a championship game. Everyone in the Big XII would make less, in the long-term, by adding Louisville.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Difference of opinion...
… I think they could easily make as much going forward in an unequal Big 12. They are the top earner now. UT offered Tech 5 mill for scrub games. You don’t think they can find a way to make up the difference for OU to keep this little fiefdom together?
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
No, because the unequal distribution
is exactly what scares off a Missouri, who apparently doesn’t have to put up with this shit and can go make rivers of money in the SEC. You can’t draw in worthwhile replacements if you aren’t an attractive conference, and we aren’t an attractive conference if we are bribing OU and UT to stay with us, because no other attractive conference does that.
At what point is Texas Tech worse off? Are we more like Missouri/Colorado or Baylor? If the latter, we’re proper fucked. If the former, do we really want the fiefdom to survive?
My concern is that we’re more like Baylor (i.e., no options).
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
The assumption is that MO goes to.
UT and OU don’t give a rat’s ass whether anyone else in the conference loses money or not.
If UT/OU can make as much (or comparable) they will stay.
No one else is in a position to do any better, even if they don’t get the full benefit that UT/OU end up getting.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
I don't think OU can make comparable money to what they can make elsewhere.
They’ve flirted pretty shamelessly for the last two years with other major conferences. They’ve taken their measure of the Big XII.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
As has everyone else. It's a shameless business evidently.
But at least we’ve narrowed down what we disagree about. I just think that UT will make it worth OU’s while, because it ensures that UT gets what it wants. That is the part, for me, that makes this seem so likely. Remember OU was already the top earner from conference revenues. They flirted for sure, but I can’t help but think that at least some of that was flexing muscle for negotiations.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
by Dunka on Sep 21, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
it depends on how far OU looks ahead
For Texas this isn’t about money, it’s about POSITION (or, arguably money IN THE FUTURE). UT doesn’t care about this battle if they win the WAR. They (idiotically IMO) think they have the capability to be an independent EVENTUALLY (altho they know that’d be stupid TODAY). In a worst case, they figure they have a golden parachute to another conference (PAC, Big10, whatever) any time this conference implodes. In a BEST case, they get 3-5 years to build a subscriber base for LHN and then with a big wad of cash go independent. At that point, they get ALL their money (1st, 2nd AND 3rd tier) and can pull in mad bank. PLUS they’re positioned to be viewed as a “premier” program, better than all comers, maybe even Notre Dame.
By letting them keep their little prize we’re just setting ourselves up for a screwing down the line. (unless the network fails miserably to attract subscribers, which IS entirely possible)
Agree with everything except the notion that we can do anything about it.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
oh...
I agree at the moment that WE are pretty screwed. (still ok with us to ANY other conference right now tho honestly) I’m saying OU could possibly do something to explode this abomination and laying out why they should.
Agree here as well.
OU seems to be the only left that could.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
One way to solve the UT problem...
is for the remaining schools to vote them out now. Make UT go independent now.
Around here football is bigger than the state of Texas!
by Distant Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
More Money?
I do not see that OU was going to make more money in PAC-12 or in the SEC and if they would not enough for them to become part of the pack instead of on top of the heap. They think they are Texas’ equal and do not want the LHN and the bullying to continue. If it is changed, they stay to help rule the roost.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
My point exactly.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
The Big XII
makes less per year than the ACC, Pac-12, SEC, and Big 10, despite having one of the newest contracts. Members of those conferences are making more money than members of the Big XII (except for Texas, because they get $10M a year from the LHN).
The only reason it’s even remotely close is because of exit-fees, currently used to bribe OU (formerly A&M), which are going to dry up very soon.
Our current first-tier contract is pathetic compared to SEC, ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, and we don’t get to renegotiate it until 2015ish, assuming ESPN doesn’t just blow it up because the conference they paid for isn’t the one that exists anymore. When we renegotiate that, we’ll all get a chance to see just how valuable the Big XII is, and it won’t be pretty in my opinion.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Problem is... many that are stuck in this conference do not want to be here....
If OU gets a better offer, will they just stay in the B12-4+x instead?
If Tech got another offer (say we win the NCG), would we stay in B12?
If the Pac, SEC and B1G want to expand and offer some B12 teams, will those teams stay in the B12?
Yeah, maybe it’s a good enough deal for TU to suck on for a few more years… maybe even ok for OU…
If there are any other rounds of realigment to come, what happens to the B12?
Does history give us any clue as to what might happen?
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
That's my point!
If Tech got another offer (say we win the NCG), would we stay in B12?
If we got another offer, we’d be CRAZY to stay, and that’s precisely why this conference can’t survive! Nebraska/Colorado/A&M/Missouri will all jump at the first opportunity, even if OU and Texas drag their feet. We are poachable but not capable of poaching.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
And my point is, after MO leaves, no one else is getting any offers that will pay them more than the watered down Big 12.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
OU will.
But you’re right, no one is going to offer Baylor any money. That’s the problem; our conference is filled with Baylors, and we’re going to supplement it with more Baylors. That’s why we don’t make as much as the other conferences.
But if any major conference offered Tech, we’d have to take it. So would Kansas. So would OU. And someone, at some point, is going to offer OU, maybe Kansas, hopefully us.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I hear you brother...!
I got a little lost in the thread… comment should have been reply to Dunka….
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
If UT makes sure they get paid as well, yes they would stay.
Easiest shot at BSC championship. Remember, an undefeated team from the Big East was considered NC material a couple of years ago. Even the likely watered down Big 12 will be much better than that league was.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
My point is that it's not stable....
Whatever triggers the next round of realigment will upset the applecart…. again…!
Are you saying that now, after 2 rounds of this, TU will just pay off anyone else who can ever come up with another offer…? and that makes it stable?
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying that all UT has to worry about is OU.
Nobody else will get an offer that makes it worth moving.
Hey, if Tech gets an offer from the SEC/Pac/B1G they are gone in a heartbeat. They sure as hell better be!
I’m saying that when you look at the entire landscape of college football – there will still be no more lucrative place for any of the others to go to – not any that will actually ask them.
It’s backward ass stability – but if UT can make OU happy – then you’ve got stability.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
We agree then.
The Big XII can only survive so long as it is filled by teams with no better options, which is true of the WAC, too.
The key to being a good conference is making sure there are no better options.
That’s why the Big XII is a failure. And we’re stuck in it. We are worse off than Northwestern, and that’s crazy.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I humbly disagree, Northwestern Collects a 20 million paycheck each year.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
That's why we're worse off?
They get $20M a year, and then on top of that they get the $3-4M a year the Big 10 will make on having a national championship game. And the Big 10 signed both its first- and second-tier contracts before us.
Northwestern is making more money than us.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
OK... stability based on power-sharing at the top... and no options for anyone else...
I still say that when Pac or B1G need to expand, it all comes crashing down…
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
You could be on to something;
The SEC has been very stable, but all of a sudden, Auburn has to go to the East, they are pissed, Tennessee and Alabama annual games goes away, Florida is mad because they don’t want Floirda State, South Carolina does not want North Carolina, but you have their commissioner saying its better for the conference. Then you start having back room deals, and now you have a cancer.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Driving home from Dallas last night listening to the F-Baum show;
Source called in who said that same person that told him that ATM was coming to SEC, WSL would not expand, and Missouri would get invite to SEC, told him that OU and CopyCat State had been given invite as well. Apparenlty, Missouri leaked the invite and OU and Copycat did not.
This does not make it so, but source was right on first three accounts.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Crap!
If this is right and they all leave we are in deep s#%@!
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I think OU has been able to get into the SEC if they wanted to the past two years. I don’t think they are interested.
+1 they don’t want to loose their recruiting hotbed in Texas by getting away from playing UT and having the SEC get a shot at Texas recruits too.
If they stay and Big 12 does go back to 12 teams and divisions, it would be good to get OU back north or in opposite division from Texas. Would give them some separation and balance league. Use the annual crossover game to keep OU-tu game and we could play Okie Light every year too.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
No, if that happens UT has no more options...
We’ll most likely go to the Pac with UT (yes, under those circumstances I believe that they drop the LHN)
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
If you ae right, that is the best outcome for Texas Tech
I would miss Okie State & Oklahoma. They’ve been great rivals & have always treated Tech with respect (Unlike Aggie & Longhorn). But the bottom line is Texas Tech is vulnerable to descending into program oblivion as lond as it remains outside the three stable major conferences (Big 10, SEC, Pac 12).
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
I think Tech also has a silent invite to the SEC
but that is contingent upon A&M going. But we will see.
Sometimes Silence is Golden.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
How is that possible if they're offering mizzou?
would they go to a pod system with us lumped into LSU, Aggie, Mizzou? Would the current schools ever allow traditional rivalries to evaporate? They’d rather have OU and they’d bring OSU which leaves us in the cold.
Give 'Em Hell Tech!!!!!
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME
At this point i’d be happy even it means SEC. Certainly not my first choice but much better than our revolving lease in the Big 12.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Missoui maybe but skeptical about ou, copycat state....
again living over here in sec land Mizzou maybe in the works and in MS it is not, I repeat not a popular pick. I don’t think ou’s pride will allow them to be “just one of the boys” over here in the sec cause it won’t be only the teasips over here but Roll Tide, Geaou Tigers, War Eagle, Gator Nation, and of course the Commadors!!!!! So looks to me ou now will try to hold B12-3 together!!!! Free Scotty Now! Wreck’Em Tech
It was funny, they made fun of Missouri for three hours, they think Slive has lost it.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
IMO I do think...
TTU is the 3rd favorite team in DFW…..lots of alums grew up in DFW and moved back!!!!
I think it's the fucking most popular team in DFW!
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i can actually confirm this
by my own opinion
by kevinkinsler on Sep 21, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
while I share my household with two non-red raiders
I retain all the first, second, and third tier television rights in my home
by kevinkinsler on Sep 21, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
See. It's only got 50% in mine. But it gets 100% of my TV set anytime they are broadcast.
That is the same reasoning for why our presence in the DFW market matters.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Can we really believe anything anymore??
Does anyone really believe that the Pac-12 is settled at 12 teams?!?!
Hell no. Read between the lines here – this is all just posturing by the PAC so they don’t look like arse clowns like they did last year.
In my opinion, the Pac-16 is not a dead deal right now.
could be on to something. I think they are just pulling back and seeing what other confrences do. If someone goes to 16 I think they pull the trigger with or without UT.
I agree that it's still a dynamic situation....
As I understand it, Larry Scott is a proponent of the “super conference”, and I don’t see him simply abandoning the notion of gaining a Texas foothold.
by ForestFlyer on Sep 21, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I think his biggest push now is to get all the PAC 12 teams on board with the expansion. That to me is kinda what killed this in the end.
That makes sense...
We know that Scott is on board with expansion. We know that California schools are letting academics get in the way of athletics. We know that UT refuses to give up the LHN. UT is willing to play this conference to its death. Solution: This whole problem would be solved if the remaining Big 12 schools voted UT out and invited several other schools to replace UT. That would force UT to make a decision to go independent or cave into the demands of one of the other conferences.
Around here football is bigger than the state of Texas!
by Distant Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's officially dead RR99
I think the PAC has enough of the wizard behind the curtain act.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
From Grantland
“According to a report, the University of Oklahoma is willing to stay in the Big-12 if the conference agrees to certain reforms. The first reform is no more of those awful catered sandwiches at meetings. The second reform is to rename the conference “SoonerMania.” The third reform is to let Oklahoma and Texas go to the Pac-12."
If we are going to talk about solutions to save the Big 12;
why could we not do the following:
1. Copy WSL and create two regional TV networks. The LHN becomes Thorns, Tech, OU, OSU and Baylor, then you form a regional network for Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, and Iowa State.
2. Then you share all Tier One and Tier two revenue equllay, and then take 50% of Tier 3 and then split the rest evenly.
3. Hire Larry Scotts assistant, who used to be in Big 12.
Then you could bring in more teams from the Big East to get back to 12, and they can form the thirid Regional Network.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
the problem is from your first sentence
there is no ‘we’ in any current Big 12 scenario
everything else seems marginally practical
by kevinkinsler on Sep 21, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Answer:
Because UT wants it all for themselves
Around here football is bigger than the state of Texas!
by Distant Raider on Sep 21, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep, and that is why this is only a pause in Conference Realignment.
Can we vote the Thorns Out of the Big 12.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Sources say this morning that Oklahoma has revised and slimmed their list of demands to..
two boxes of Chicken Biskits and and a can of Cheeze Whiz.
No, they will just walk up and take it out of the bag, and not ask to share.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Counter Offer
Lick my boots and then kiss my ass!
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
and
eat it in front of OU
Arriba sus Pistolas, Muchachos!
by Tortilla Pirate on Sep 21, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Some Quick Observations
Penalties
Its amazing how NOT actively pursuing a reduction of penalties still manifests itself thru and all out dedication to fundamental discipline. That this dedication has instilled in the players their own desire to reduce penalties speaks volumes.
TTubs in a golf cart
Thats a good look for him. Good to hear Mackey is getting better. Our depth at DE still amazes me.
Alex Torres
Alex and Brittney sittin in a tree.
Realignment
I am with Seth on this. My attitude since I heard about this last night is: Wake me when its over. I fell into the trap and commented on something yesterday. <<>>
Arriba sus Pistolas, Muchachos!
by Tortilla Pirate on Sep 21, 2011 10:46 AM CDT reply actions
From Bill Connelly this morning:
With a link to OU beat reporter on who OU president Boren wants to add:
Our source says Boren wanted either BYU, TCU or Air Force added to Big 12 to get 10, or all 3 for 12. That doesn’t change. #Sooners
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Does any one else see it as Ironic, that Mizzou & BYU would be in the same conference?
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
The Mormons were forced out of Missouri by edict of the Governor and then with numerous conflicts of violence.
They relocated to the other side of the Mississippi River in Illinois for a short period of time where Joesph Smith was killed and Brigham Young lead the entire group to Utah and created Salt Lake City. Essentially the LDS church established there HQ in Missouri and were run out by the natives in multiple battles that left the LDS settlements sacked and burned.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Especially when Missouri wears this shirt around at the Border War game with Kansas
The sacking of Lawrence, KS in a neat T-Shirt form.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, that would be ironic... But if Mizzou goes to the SEC...
then wouldn’t Maine have to be invited to the B1G?
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Assuming the 9 stay together....Who do we add to get back to 12?
My picks are BYU, WVU and Louisville. Best possible substitues are TCU & Boise State however South and Central Florida are some wild considerations.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
I would vote for Boise State, West Virginia, and Louisville.
However, I would boot out the Thorns and add Utah State to go alog with Boise State.
And let’s hurry and vote while ATM is still around, that is 9-1 to boot out the Thorns.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
The other thing I would do is expand to 14 and not stop at 12.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
I am thinking BYU, WVU, and Louisville to get to 12
Then, since the ACC and SEC are determined to get to 14, we can decide between Boise, Air Force, TCU, and Cincinnati
I don't think Dodds wants to get back to 12
so, that’s not happening. Although, the only way Big XII survives is it gets back to 12.
What???
who gives a fu¢k WHAT Dodds wants?
Beebe, if all goes well, will be out and therefore Dodds wont have his puppet anymore.
Arriba sus Pistolas, Muchachos!
by Tortilla Pirate on Sep 21, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
If Boren would have just kept his big mouth shut the PAC might still be possible. Nobody wants to be used as leverage. Make a decision and stick with it or stay out of the media.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Larry Scott said he knew this weekend UT wasn't willing to play ball
I think it took until Tuesday night for the Pac 12 to make the announcement because they were busy telling all interested parties that Pac 12 expansion was off the table. Which would make Boren’s Tuesday statement asking for Beebe’s firing & revenue sharing a reaction to the news from the Pac 12 that it was over, not the other way around.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Maybe
I don’t know what the tipping point was but I know one thing for sure, if you want to leave a conference do what Nebraska, Colorado and possibly A&M did. Make a decision and keep you mouth shut about revisiting “how we can salvage” the conference. Unfortunately, UT wins again in round two.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Agree with both of you, but add....
There were a lot of people being played against each other for a lot of reasons. Nobody trusts each other enough. If OU trusted the Pac – it would have kept it’s mouth shut. UT was just playing everybody – so they weren’t gong to keep their mouths shut. And the Pac told the truth the whole time – “No LHN!”, which was the most valuable thing said the whole time.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
And from NY Times Pete Thamel
"O.U. would stay if they can get the right kind of deal out of Texas," a Big 12 official said. "Texas is doing everything they can to keep this together." The official said that Texas did not want to abandon the Big 12 for the Pac-12 because it did not want to share revenue from its Longhorn Network.
All along, the Pac-12 presidents had shown little appetite for further expansion. But Scott kept in touch with Texas and Oklahoma, which had reached out to the league, in case of significant shifts in the landscape.
After Scott met with Texas officials in Los Angeles over the weekend, and the details of what Texas wanted from the Pac-12 leaked out, it became apparent that the Longhorns could not fit into what Scott called in his statement a "culture of equality."
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
btw seth, I linked the BotC post in the other thread
I can link again if you want, altho I understand if you don’t have time to get to that right now, especially since the BotC thread is pretty long too.
So OU, Ok State and TTech need to go sell Larry on our interest in a "culture of equality"...
I would love to know what OU considers “the right kind of deal”…
We are likely going to be stuck living with whatever it is for the next few years…
"Transition is hard." - TT
by Houston Raider on Sep 21, 2011 11:35 AM CDT reply actions
I said this the last time that there were realignment issues, which is that let UT have the LHN. That’s a done deal. But why can’t the remaining schools find a way to have some sort of loosely based partnership and sell their third tier rights collectively? I don’t know that this is the perfect solution and it’s not an attempt to get back at UT, but I would guess that a cable network devoted to the Big 12-minus UT would be infinitely more desirable than the LHN.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Fine idea for a network
but who would want to put their $$ and reputation behind this ever-changing circus freak show??
Throw first and ask questions later.
It would at the very least be a sign of solidarity between the members. Again, it’s not a perfect solution, but its the only thing that I think could actually work if the remaining schools work together. It would take a lot of cooperation and contracts and things like that, but at the very least, this model seems like a better idea rather than doing nothing.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
This is where OU is culpable.
My understanding is that they were holding out for their own network as well.
Maybe now it could happen though.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Pure speculation on my part, but I think through this process, OU has probably learned that they don’t have the eyes to have a profitable network. Or at least, this is what I hope they’ve learned and I hope it’s what every other member of the Big 12 (other than UT) has learned, which is that we’re not going to get through this if each school is acting independently, but by working together. They can’t change UT, they won’t budge, but I feel like at the very least, the remaining members can help themselves.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
UT might yet learn that it doesn't have enough eyeballs to support a network.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Concur. I still think that UT is not going to give in no matter what. I think that they think that the LHN is their investment and they’re going to see it through until the bitter end, but they’re going to go down with that ship. That analogy isn’t perfect in the sense that UT isn’t going to suffer. I don’t think they’re going to be out any money, but they won’t give up the LHN, at least not for a while.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Concur with both of you.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
I concur with the double concur
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Concurrently?
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
No. That would be a little weird.
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this form of balance always equals zero.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
When I need to make a right hand turn
I always take 3 lefts instead. This helps to keep everything balanced and it also helps me lose the man that’s following me.
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you drive this
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
So you're the man that keeps following me?
To quote our distinguished Governor:
Adios MoFo
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
No I just saw this keep turning left, left, and left again.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
LHN Content
I think that this is a good thought, but the other network is going to need to be someone other than ESPN. Right now ESPN is doing everything in their power to get the remaining 3rd tier rights games (and even some games that aren’t 3rd tier) on the LHN. If we lose ESPN as a bidder for this remaining Big12 network how can we hope to drive up the price the market should deliver. These are some of the problems I have with the LHN. It has completely motivated ESPN to keep the rest of the conference members in a lower position to A&M. This is not a healthy structure, and it either needs to be fixed or we don’t agree to a lengthy stay in the Big12 and do everything we can to find a conference that will provide stability.
by sburnett1855 on Sep 21, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Meant Lower Position To UT Not A&M
Sorry about that. Should probably proof read what I write. I think the idea on this is a really good one. I just hate that ESPN would be working against the rest of the conference members so the LHN would get better content.
by sburnett1855 on Sep 21, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Especially because it would have some marketable third-tier games to sell.
One of the problems with the LHN is that it needs some television broadcasts worth broadcasting to generate enough leverage to get on basic cable. But since UT is such a popular football program, all its good games are picked up by Fox and ESPN on first- and second-tier, which means the only thing it can sell (in the absence of an agreement with Fox or ESPN) is Texas-SHSU, which it doesn’t want to sell anyways, because the LHN isn’t even attempting to broadcast that.
There are marketable third-tier games that slip through first- and second-tier, like Tech-New Mexico, which made its way to Versus, incredibly. Multiply that times nine teams, and you’d have real potential for games that people want to watch, but won’t find on Fox or ESPN.
by Skin Patrol on Sep 21, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Right. And then you add in men’s and women’s basketball and other sports and it seems like something I would watch, even if it’s not Texas Tech.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I like that it adds another layer in between the LHN and picking up games that no one else would broadcast too!
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
There is something incredibly perverse
about the fact that Texas Tech is potentially one of the few schools in the country that has no third-tier rights contract.
As I said to the BotC faithful back in April...
Not possible with Beebe at the helm. Beebe’s comments from back then on that VERY topic:
Well, that’s something they’re going to have to decide. It wouldn’t be a Big 12 network, per se, because it wouldn’t have all the Big 12 schools, but for a third-tier platform for those institutions to look at where they can have games and have a partner that might look at or want to do a lot of the content, then that’s a high possibility.
Emphasis MINE, and as I said back then, when your CONFERENCE COMMISSIONER is the one saying that your conference is screwed.
Absolutely, the remaining members have to want to work together and if you really want to do something about UT and the LHN (two things, this is a poor choice of words, but hopefully you know what I mean and I don’t think voting UT out is really an option, but I haven’t read the bylaws) this this is one of the options to create something better than what UT has.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
You could still call it the big 12 network, I think everyone in their right mind would know that UT programming wouldn’t be on it.
Some UT content would. All away games would be subject to the Big 12 selection before UT could get them.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Again..
I say we need to agree with OU on at LEAST getting rid of Beebe, since he is INCAPABLE of bringing the conference members together and (at least in his public comments) doesn’t give a crap about any member of this conference not named UT. (and it appears that OU has finally awoken to that fact)
I totally agree with getting rid of Beebe. He may not have caused all of the problems, but I don’t feel like he’s helping.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
If the network idea has already been kicked around at the highest B12 levels
but has made no progress, it must not have the needed support. Especially if OU wants their own channel.
Throw first and ask questions later.
I’m sure it has, but you’d have to think that after everything that has happened, that they need to do something.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
MO MONEY MO PROBLEMS
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it is nearly impossible to discern if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
I’m wondering why UT feels the need to dominate a conference instead be a partner. USC, Michigan, Florida, Alabama, LSU, Penn State…they all have no interest in bossing the other members around. Yet UT does. I don’t think the answer is “because they can.”
It’s because the rest of us, including aTm and OU, have let them. Why? Probably fear. But even if UT decided to take their ball and go home in 2009, we’d have had a really decent conference left over.
Highly placed Big 12 sources told the Tulsa World that there is a consensus among Big 12 leaders to ask commissioner Dan Beebe for his resignation. Those sources confirmed that former Big Eight commissioner Chuck Neinas has been targeted to serve as the interim commissioner until Beebe’s replacement is identified.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
One "small step" forward...
Around here football is bigger than the state of Texas!
by Distant Raider on Sep 21, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Why oh why do people insist on thinking TCU brings anything valuable to a reformed Big XII or that they want in? TCU is microscopic in the Dallas market, they can’t even half-fill their stadium most games and it’s a tiny school. They bring nothing UT, TTU and OU don’t already have in terms of fans in this area, which would be a valid reason for wanting TCU if they had even a sliver of interest in the Dallas sports scene.
Secondly, Coach Patterson has stated on numerous occasions he is not interested in joining the Big XII unless they can get put in a division where they don’t play UT and OU every year, which, geographically, doesn’t make any damn sense. He doesn’t want to play what he sees as tough competition, which is why he’s gung ho about the Big East entry.
Houston would be a much, much better target for the Big XII in hopes of capturing even some of the defected TAMU grasp of that massive market that UT doesn’t control. Heck, UTEP would be a better bet than TCU in terms of getting something which would do the conference well.
I vote for UTSA
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh
On a purely non-selfish not wanting to see a Tech football game in your hometown nod, right? In that case, I vote UTD. Do they even have a football program? If not, they’ll build one.
I vote DeVry University
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
Exactly. It's time to get your Roadrunner on
I just don't be feelin' too good.
by San Antonio Red Raider on Sep 21, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
And they are already part of the LHN.
"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.
I was in SA the weekend of their first football game.
Can someone google that attendance for me? Needless to say, it was impressive.
I Love My Bucket
I don’t think that TCU adds much in terms of value, but the number of teams to add are dwindling. Houston is an option, but ideally, if its the BXII, then they need to add bigger names than TCU and Houston.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
You do want to add value, which is in a big name. All TCU has going for it is that it had a good run with a very good college QB. We all know college football fortunes come and go fairly quickly, and while I don’t hope for the demise of TCU, there’s no assurance they’ll ever be anything more than a flash in the pan. It might be a flash in the pan that won’t ever be anything more than a blurb in this market, so what has it added to the Big XII in terms of longevity?
No, I don’t see room for any expansion of people following TCU in this market. It’s too small a school and this market is pretty well captured with other, larger universities.
Since this conference is being held together with Duct Tape at the current time, I see the options being limited.
Adding TCU may not be desired because of their lack of creating more value, but they at least hold off another conference from putting a foothold in Texas. TCU recruits a lot of Texas kids and if they stay in the Big East then you have West Virginia and others getting a game in Texas every other year to highlight their need for good Texas HS football players.
That and the hate between Baylor and TCU would be fun….
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
And now the get a game here to showcase their school and an easy travel game for their recruits parents.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don’t know how effective of a recruiting tool that is, but it is as strong an argument for TCU’s inclusion in the Big XII as I’ve seen.
Does it outweigh any other issues though? In my opinion, no it doesn’t.
I would agree, I made the comment above based on the Old Big 12 needs and TCU did not fit then
Now I am little more inclined to say TCU would help. My bet is TCU would be helluva a lot more relevant in the Big 12-2-1 than Baylor has been the entire Big 12 tenure, this year notwithstanding.
A slate of “in conference games” in Texas is compelling enough for the SEC to take Aggie. It doesn’t change the geographical locations of the schools involved, but does mean that Alabama & LSU can tell their recruits and their parents from Texas you can see you boy play ball in the SEC and few times in his career you can see it in Texas.
by idaho_techsan on Sep 21, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
As mentioned on other posts......
Big 12 must get back to 10 and the highest profile institutions possibly available are BYU and WVU. Going on up to 12 would be even better and Louisville is a good fit geographically and also a link or partner to WVU. If you got those 3 while not a replacement for Nebraska or Texas A&M (but definitely for Colorado) it is the best available as far as profile, league footprint and potential. TCU, Houston, Air Force are solid fallbacks but do not offer as much.
Now is the time to act while Big East is also in flux and while Big 12 is trying to tame tu and correct mistakes of the past.
by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 21, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Warm Bodies - The Big 12 needs them to give the impression that collapse isn't imminent
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
If that’s the case, why not just add SMU or BYU who both want in? If it’s merely a “warm bodies” argument, then TCU, who hasn’t shown in an interest and is gearing up for another conference, shouldn’t be considered.
TV sets.
Add ‘em where we ain’t got ’em.
I love TCU – but I don’t want them added to the Big 12.
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
Huh?
Because I am arguing against the inclusion of TCU? That’s a pretty silly argument on your part.
Dunka is 100 percent right, and that is more or less what I have argued.
It's kinda like running inside a burning building
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
"We started too late" - Neal Brown
Running inside? We've been in here all along
I wish somebody would poke their head out to see if there’s a safer place to go as the Big 12 burns.
2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!
Viva la revolucion!
Personally I think its time to force UT’s hand and revolt. I do not buy the notion that UT has options beyond the Big 12 besides independence which would be a total failure and lead UT down a path of mediocrity. IF they did why are they still here? Because they invested money in the LHN? Ut could easily eat the costs and not even blink. ITs all about their image and brand. IT hurts their brand for LHN to fail.
Time for the so called smaller schools to band together and force OU and UT to conform to us and what is right for a conference to succeed. Currently we are being ruled by the minority but that can change if we call their bluff.
Whats the worst that can happen? The death of the big 12? Where is everybody going to go? If you take what has happened with the Pac 12 saying they do not want to expand then OU and OSU have no where to go. The only one that can actually leave the big 12 today as is UT and that is to independence. Everything else is all rumor and hearsay dependent on conditions that are dependent on conditions. If the latter occurs then Tech will end up fine in a 16 league conference.
We have a lot more power then people realize and its time we use it by forcing this conference to change. In the end its all about money and at the end of the day the conference that has the most stability will make the most money. Which is why you do not see teams itching to leave the Big 10 or the SEC. Most of these contracts are for lengths greater then 10 years which is why stability pays more in the end. No conference is stable with UT (in its current state) in it which is why no one will take them.
by Red Raider Chiro on Sep 21, 2011 1:08 PM CDT reply actions
LHN Is Not On The Table?
Dodds has stated that the LHN is not on the negotiating table for the up coming discussions. This is just frustrating. The main reason that TAMU is leaving is due to the network, and it needs to be fixed. If this how UT is going to approach the discussions with OU, then we really need to try to push our way to pair up with TAMU in the SEC. I do not want to remain in a conference where UT is completely in charge and doing everything they can to only help themselves. From these quotes, it appears to be the way it is heading.
That’s why the remaining teams need to work together on their own 3rd tier network. See this discussion in this post:
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
I don’t think our network is in play," Dodds said. "Our network is our network. Anybody can do one. If somebody thinks something is wrong with our network, and thinks it’s hurting the conference, we would absolutely address it."
What? But De loss, you just said,….. What?
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Harvey "Big Daddy" Pollitt: "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?"
What he meant by "address it"
Is they would sit down and tell them to F off, and then move on to the next topic
By the way
If I could be interviewed by Brittany Endlich, I would not be nearly as non-chalant as is Alex Torres. I may be 66, but MAN! she is H-O-T!
TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill
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