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Conference Realignment: What Elephant?

The first domino tipped today.  Unfortunately, it was pushed by an Aggie and there may not be any others behind it to fall.  Nonetheless, the internets are ablaze with speculation on the formation of 4 super-conferences.  Which makes for some exciting discussion.  However, no one seems to be stepping back to ask the question, does this really make sense?

Star-divide

We all know the story.  Some school gets pissed off at the University of Texas and decides to leave the conference for greener pastures.  First it was Nebraska, then Colorado, now Texas A&M has said, "Well, it's happened twice, so it must be a tradition around here.  We're leaving, too."  Only they haven't yet.  They would like to, though the rationality of this decision escapes me.  As we all know, the caveat emptor for the SEC is that, while the Big XII conference agreed not to file suit, they have no control over the decisions of the individual institutions.  Oops.  I guess the Aggies didn't think of that one.  Though they are said to be actively trying to persuade the institutions to sign a legal waiver.

The standard thinking seems to be that if A&M does leave the Big XII and join the SEC (remember, their departure from the Big XII is still contingent on securing a spot in a new conference), the conference will end up splitting apart, and the member institutions absorbed into other conferences, creating a new college football super-conference arms race.  The inevitable result: four 16-team super conferences.  Or so the standard thinking goes.

The question that no one seems to be asking is what happens to the other 52 FBS schools (not including the 4 independents)?  Does anyone think that those schools left out of one of the projected super conferences are going to take this lying down?  If you think that the legal mess A&M has stirred up with between the Big XII schools and the SEC is ugly, wait for the law suits that will be filed if 52 former potentially contending schools get shut out. 

It is my belief that those pining for super conferences are doing as a back door way of getting to a pseudo play-off system.  But the schools, largely, still do not want a playoff.  Further, most of the major conferences do not want 16 teams (or so they say).  Any number beyond 12 schools becomes problematic.  Scheduling is difficult because no one wants to play more than 8 or 9 conference games.  Without blowing up almost every major conference, things get difficult geographically, culturally, academically, etc.  Rivalries lose importance or go away entirely. 

Even economically, there is a law of diminishing returns, since assembling that many teams that people want to see play becomes difficult at best.  This is a challenge even in 10 and 12 team conferences.  As Texas Tech fans, we should understand that 3rd (or 4th) tier games don't get widely televised very often.  Imagine the increased number of conference games that don't get televised and how much more will have to be made on televised games to make up the difference.  Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better quality games or more coverage.  There are still going to be 50 - 60 games a week, split between a dozen or so networks. Even if they split coverage regionally, that is a lot of games to cover, and lets face it, not all will get coverage.

As great as they sound in theory, 4 (or even 6 or 7) 16-team super conferences are not likely to form.

So what could happen?  Lets start with the SEC.  Assuming A&M joins the SEC, that means only 3 things can happen: A) they add 1 or more teams to get to an even number for balance of divisions,  B) somebody gets cut to get back to 12, or C) they stay at 13.  None of these paths is easy.  However, adding one team to get to 14 seems the easiest and most likely.  Note this is not 16 and therefore not the desired super conference.  14 teams makes sense.  It makes further sense if the Big XII dissolves, since the SEC would then have its pick of several potential schools.  Based on the logic that schools be chosen by increasing value and exposure, the most logical picks are one of the Oklahoma schools or Missouri.  Texas, Texas Tech, and Baylor do not add to the footprint.  Iowa State and the Kansas schools do not fit in the SEC regional model (not south and not east).  Other pundits have suggested Missouri is already on the SEC radar, and they seem to carry the least baggage.  A least the state was part of the Confederacy, is bordered by Arkansas and the Mississippi river.  And Mississippi is already in the SEC.  It makes sense to me that the school that would even things out for the SEC is Missouri.  To summarize, it makes most sense to me that the SEC ends up at 14 teams by picking up A&M and Missouri.

Continuing with the assumption of the dissolution of the Big XII, that leaves 8 teams to find a home.  The PAC 12 is pretty content and can afford to be choosy about who they let in.  As much as Austin likes to think of itself as a west coast fit, there are lots of things that would have to be worked out.  I won't link to everything, but a number of people have pointed out the many issues beyond just the LHN.  The University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State will probably try to go west as a package, though I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that they will get an invitation.  The other option would be for the Indian Territory to join the SEC, pushing them to 16 teams.  I give both options 3:1 of happening.

I am not convinced that Texas Tech goes nowhere without Texas.  However, I don't see us getting into the PAC without someone else coming along to make it even.  No one likes a third wheel.  Assuming OU and OSU are a package deal (which may not be valid, but I'm sticking with it), and that Texas has too much baggage to carry west, that leaves our only available dance partners as Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State.  I don't see the PAC sending us an invitation unless they think we'll bring someone good to the party to keep things even. 

This leaves us with a 50/50 chance that the Oklahoma schools don't have an offer east or west, 5 schools (including Tech) hoping the music doesn't stop, and Texas still hanging out in the buffet line getting fat.  And the Mountain West conference. 

That's right.  If things start to implode, I could see a merger between the remnants of the Big 12 and the MWC.  Bringing in Boise State  and Air Force would not be a bad thing.  Texas will do as Texas pleases and may end up independent.  That is fine by me.  I would take a 14 team combo of the MWC and former Big 12.  It would be sure to be an automatic qualifying conference, the MWC already has its own network, and the combination would give room for a new round of TV negotiations.  It leaves a lot in the air, but would create a conference with enough power programs to be relevant and a good stage for Tech.

In this, the Big East, Big 10, the ACC Conference USA, WAC, etc. do not change in this round of realignment.  And they don't need to.  Occum's razor says that, when faced with competing hypotheses, you should select the one with the fewest assumptions.  Major realignment requires many assumptions.  2 schools from the Big XII to the SEC and the merger of a conference that would like to be an AQ with one that has an AQ does not take a great leap of faith.

Ultimately, unless the Big XII dissolves, the legal battle for A&M to break free from the conference may prove too great, and the Big XII may end up one big dysfunctional family again.  Of course all of this leaves us asking, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there who gives a damn, does it really matter?

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MWC

And I can just here my mother, sister, and brother in law – who played football at TCU giving me all kinds of SH#T after all the hell I gave them for TCU being in the Mountain F’n West Conference! ARGH! But your points are good.

by minimark on Sep 7, 2011 11:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Good evaluation LR

Much more in depth than I could do, but very well thought out and presented, as always. I am totally perplexed by all of this realignment talk. It seems none of the conferences are quite sure of what exactly they want. Yes. No. Maybe. Maybe not. I don’t know! I have been a Red Raider fan since my childhood days in the 50’s and 60’s. All I want is for Tech to excel in football, as well as all other sports. The same goes for academia. No matter what people say, think or do, I feel Texas Tech offers and succeeds in accomplishing excellent classes that produce top recruiting talent for all forms of business.

The academics and sports at Tech have improved greatly overall since I was there in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Engineering has always been one of the better schools in all of the USA, as has the school of agriculture. The art/architecture schooling is second to none between the Mississippi and Berkley. All of this is important when discussing Tier 1 recognition, as well as reaching AAU status. Texas Tech is close and will be there soon, probably sometime in the next 3 to 5 years. Sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Volleyball, etc.) at Texas Tech have improved to the point Texas Tech may actually be listed as a part of he top athletic schools anywhere.

So, I expect that when any other conference considers adding Big-12schools when, or if, the Big-12 breaks up, Texas Tech is in a pretty good spot. There are so many possibilities out there, but I have a good feeling that the Red Raiders will wind up in a very good position, if the powers that be are proactive and on top of it all.

TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill

by TTpilk645 on Sep 7, 2011 11:35 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Excuse me....I meant NM99

TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill

by TTpilk645 on Sep 8, 2011 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

More serious thoughts/predictions

I think the Big 12 schools that feel the most threatened (Baylor, ISU, and KSU) might be after compensation – read the so-called commissioner’s comments from yesterday – he implies that teams have made commitments to facility improvements due to the new TV contract, and will be financially impaired by the lack of funds due to the loss of the TV contract should the conference implode. Those are financial concerns. Read: settlement. Tech, OSU (probably tied to OU regardless, but better to be safe than sorry), Kansas, and Mizzou just want to make sure they have a place to land. Both the compensation for the have-nots and landing issues for the others will have to be settled at the same time before any school signs a waiver – i.e. when A&M gets their acceptance into the SEC, Baylor and the “have nots” will get their money and the “worried” schools will have a place to land in an AQ conference. As for Texas, who f’n cares!

by minimark on Sep 8, 2011 12:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Tech needs a partner

Good analysis but Tech needs a partner or partners to go anywhere. A stand alone invitation to any AQ conference is not coming. A merger with MWC is a strong possibility. Good job NM99 but small note – Missouri was not part of Confederacy.

by Red&BlackAttack on Sep 8, 2011 12:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Part of the Confderacy

They were represented in both the Union and the Confederate government, though never technically able to secede, after initially declaring neutrality.

by NM99 on Sep 8, 2011 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Missouri was Pro Slave

I remember this from a History class at Tech. The Missouri/Kansas rivalry was born during the War of Northern Aggression. Kansas was mostly a free state and Missouri was mostly a slave state. Missouri raiders crossed over the border and did some pretty awful things to Kansas in order to influence thier vote as toward a slave state.

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

by Birddog97 on Sep 8, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think

It really went both ways. It would have been a bad place to be at the time, kind of like Afganistan, Irag, or Mexico today.

ut is "The Evil Empire"

by cweber7377 on Sep 8, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bloody Kansas

Was not a result of what happened during the Civil War… The incidents occurred after the Missouri or 2/3 Compromise in the 1850s that based an open referendum to vote on whether or not a state could legally have slaves. You must have left much of what you learned in your Freshman year at the Lubbock Depot…

by TEXASUSMC on Sep 8, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tech needs to do what's right for TTU

If the Big 12 remnants want to go form a lesser conference, that’s cool with me. I don’t want Tech to be in that group, though. Tech needs to do what it can to be in one of the super conferences if at all possible. We are capable of that.

by djn on Sep 8, 2011 12:42 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think as a

stand alone university we are attractive to any of the conferences that will morph into a super conference. Just the way it is. We NEED a partner.

by Tech92 on Sep 8, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is alot of trash talk about A$M being trashed in the SEC.

I think they start slow and then leave TTU in their dust in 3-5 years. Not an Aggie, just being realistic. They have been a top 10 overall athletic program and football is not the only sport they play.

Now for us. We better be sure that if we land in a super conference that it is one we can compete in, and not be the doormat ourselves! If we get anywhere close to $20M and are in an AQ conf. and can compete for a division championship in half the years, then I am all for it. I see no point being in a conf. division stacked with teams that we seldom beat.

The solution to many things is to start putting up performances like Boise but with a real solid all-around academic and athletic resume. And getting our academics up is very impt. in all this if it takes a long time to sort out. If this is going to be a bang-bang move, it matters less than athletics and esp. football.

by RRaider5355 on Sep 8, 2011 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

There was talk...

that we would be consistent doormats in everything but women’s basketball and baseball, when the Big XII was formed. In football, we were 4-7, 6-5, 5-6, 6-6, and 6-6 in the five years before the Big XII was announced (‘90-’94). They were 8-23, 15-14, 18-12, 17-11, and 20-10 in men’s basketball, so they were showing improvement, but most people thought the record was padded by the weak competition in the SWC.

I certainly wish we had done better, but in the Big XII, we are the only school to be bowl eligible every year of the conference. We’ve had big swings in men’s basketball, but it did include four NCAA invites (including one Sweet 16), and two NIT invites (including third place). We were one of the dominant powers in women’s basketball in the conference, and went to the NCAA the first eight years of the conference (including two Elite 8 teams, and four more Sweet 16 teams). In baseball, we had six 40+ win seasons.

My point is, most people thought Tech wouldn’t be competitive in the Big XII, and that hasn’t been the case. We’ve been very competitive in the conference. It may take some adjustment if/when we move to a super conference, but we are just as capable of being competitive in any league we move to, in all sports. We can’t let that fear keep us from making a move.

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

here here

"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me

by oldschoolraider on Sep 8, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good analysis there nm. I only disagree on the combination of mwc and big12. I think ther has already been a discussion among big12 bigeast and acc schools about the possibillity of a merger

by jef on Sep 8, 2011 3:02 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Also right now i am kind of enjoying seeing a&m getting screwed by tiny baylor :)

by jef on Sep 8, 2011 3:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Tech may not need a partner

I think Tech will land in a BCS conference regardless of what UT does, most likely the PAC. I fully believe that Hocutt and Tech have a great relationship with Larry Scott and the PAC. Remember, Larry already flew in his private jet to Lubbock last summer to visit Tech. He was impressed. From the statement that the Tech admin released yesterday “We’re not standing idly by in this process” and the fact that Tech hasn’t threatened to sue A&M for leaving are a couple of really good indicators to anyone that can read between the lines.

by TTU RHIM '09 on Sep 8, 2011 6:02 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Hocutt and Scott could be married

we still have to be voted in by the Pac-12 schools, and some of them are hostile to letting in schools lacking academic prestige.

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Sep 8, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not true - Scott has full authority already to add schools as he sees fit

There doesn’t even need to be a vote. They voted him that power before the initial expansion announcement last summer.

2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!

by mbrown603 on Sep 8, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Texas Problem

Whether it’s the MWC or the ACC merging with the Big12, these schools would have to weigh the move to a AQ conference against the unfair revenue sharing practice of the Big12. The same issues Texas has with moving to the PAC are the same issues that keep the Big12 down - need for all the power and the LHN. Until the ‘Texas Problem’ is solved, the Big12 is just a big, dysfunctional group waiting to implode. The Big12 is a great idea, just badly managed.

by natkcole on Sep 8, 2011 7:06 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't see how the Big 12 can survive in its current format.

Texas is not going to give up all its power. The future of the Big 12 is squarely in the hands of OU. If OU goes to the Wool Sweaer league, then OSU goes with them. Whe that happens, Texas goes independent.

I would hope that Hance and Bailey, Kenn Starr and the rest of the surviving schools make ATM, Texas, OU and OSU pay a substantial buyout. It could be a windfall for Tech, Kansas, KState, Baylor, and Iowas State. At $30 million each, Tubby could get both the new scored board and an indoor facility, and we could really improve our baseball facility.

If we are here to stay, then lets fight to get our money.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Snide Aside is too busy playing on the OU site begging them to stay.

Stoops is already lauging.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good work NM99

Unfortunately I think you nailed it. I have been thinking this now for a few days, but I really did not want to face it. My hopes of the Wool Sweater league may be a dream at this point.

This conference as we know it today is doomed. There is too much damage all the way around. I would like to see ATM pay heavily financially to leave. If they want out, then they need to pay damages to all the schools that remain in the Big 12.

The Big 12 will survive, but they will have to raid The Mountain West and Conference USA. I was reading yesterday that the Big 12 Automatic BCS bid is not up again unto 2013. I could not read anywhere in the articles that stated how many teams were in the conference. The Big 12 has a BCS bid.

Given the events of the past few days, I think this is where we are going to end up. A Big 12 that will look like this. Tech, Baylor, Houston, SMU, Kansas, Kanasas State, Iowa State, Tulsa, New Mexico, Air Force, Memphis State, and yes Boise State.

The Big 12 will keep its Automatic Bid thru the 2013 season, and then it will be up to each individual school to raise the bar and earn their keep. Last week Baylor beat TCU, Houston beat UCLA, Boise State beat Georgia, and SMU beat itself against a really good ATM team.

NM99, I really wanted to be in the Wool Sweater league, but this just may be our only way to stay in a AQ conference.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Agree

I too would like to see the big 12 survive. Let ATM go, and UT should go independent. If the remnants can add 4-6 teams then both OU and OSU would stay (big fish in little pond).
TCU, Houston, SMU, air force, BYU, Boise state, Tulsa, Tulane are all good pick ups from both comtition as well as geographic markets.

The big 12 should use the opportunity to grow rather than disappear. Leverage the automatic qualifier

by fracas on Sep 8, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

“The question that no one seems to be asking is what happens to the other 52 FBS schools (not including the 4 independents)?”

Because the answer is: What changes? Did you not watch the last decade’s performances by Boise, Utah, TCU & Hawaii (all of whom were undefeated going into bowl season at one point or another). Until you prove that any of those have a realistic chance of actually being in the title game, I don’t see how a 64 team super-conference league that EXPLICITLY excludes them is any different from the current system that just does so implicitly.

by HeeroTX on Sep 8, 2011 9:22 AM CDT reply actions  

Not in Agreement

Tech Grad ‘04 and have been reading the blog for last 3 years and love it. I love to get the tech perspective from all of you, which I rarely here in Chicago, but I will have to politely disagree with the assessment of conference re-alignment and tech’s future within it. Conference re-alignment is happening if we like it or not. It is happening because of one reason and 1 reason only and its money from TV. The greater number of TV sets you have in your conference foot print the more you get to charge for your subscriber fees for your conference network (and greater number of people you get to charge). And if you dont have a conference network then you leverage your additional footprint with the big television companies for more $$$$. I have been reading new outlets from CA to NY and regional- blogs since last year and this is what I have gathered and formed my analysis on:

- Tech is not considered Academically viable for the BIG and ACC. We are not in the AAU and can be 10 years or so away, plus our move to become a Tier 1 Academic institution is farther away than just 5 years (it hundreds of millions of dollars of funding and grants and support from the state which we just started receiving)

- Tech’s national perception is we are a mediocre football program and nothing else. No one is clamoring for us to get into SEC, BIG, ACC or PAC10. Actually from what I have read from the west cost news outlets and blogs, they are disappointed the PAC would actually add a TTU. They all agree TTU would only be an addition if Texas is involved, if Texas is not involved we will NOT be invited.

My overall analysis on the situation is we are in dire straits and we are not in control of our destiny like our administration would like us to believe. Our future conference destiny is predicated on University of Texas’s next move therefore these are options I see for us.

- Texas goes independent and either we add MWC or Big East (highly unlikely) conference schools to the Big 12 (since even the Big 12 with 6 schools, we have a contract with the BCS to be an automatic qualifying conference until 2013)

- Texas goes independent or to the BIG, Missouri leaves to the SEC or BIG or Big East (all possibilities), and all thats left is TTU, Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St, and Baylor. We are unlikely to build a conference, therefore the Kansas schools bolt for the Big East to make a 12 team conference and we are going to MWC or Conference USA.

- Texas stays in the BIG 12 and we re-build with MWC or Big East (highly unlikely) conference schools.

- Texas goes to the PAC and we get hit with a lucky stick and get to go with them. There are reports Texas has more issues with the PAC than just LHN and probability is already down to 20%.

We have no options to go to the BIG East since the Big East has been in conversations with MO, Kansas and Kansas St since last year. MO is beginning to have conversations with the SEC and being school number 14 and guess what if Texas decides hey I want to go the BIG then ND will be there and maybe even MO.

As you can see we are not in great shape. Again these scenarios may take place over the next 2-3 years, but before the TV contract for the BIG comes up in 2014, the BIG will expand. The Big East TV contract is up for negotiation summer of 2013 and they are looking to add 3 teams (to become a 12 team football conference) and the leading candidates are MO, Kansas, and Kansas St if the Big 12 falls apart by OU, OSU & A&M leaving (which day by day is being more and more likely) we are out of luck (some of the BIG East predictions are based if West Virginia stays, if they dont stay then Big East may not be a viable conference).

Most people dont understand and even Mark Cuban doesn’t get it is the conferences are creating more ways to view there product. The PAC 12 is creating 1 national channel and 4 regional channels to have more exposure and money coming in for their tier 2 and tier 3 rights. The BIG already has their own network and created new avenues to view their product through their channel. With conference realignment we are adding ways to view content and for the conference to make even more money (SEC has a deal with ESPN to televise all SEC games on the host of ESPN channels). Those games that were not televised will now be televised and generate additional revenues for the conferences.

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 9:31 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree we don't hold the cards, but I disagree that we have no where to go.

The Big 12 is the only conference that has AQ status until the 2013-13 season. The Big 12 conference does not have to requalify as per the bylaws. I read them yesterday and because we are a founding conference, it will be very difficult to get rid of us. That is how the Big East even got in. Once in, very hard to get you out.

If we hold together, I mean Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State, Houston will most certainly come, SMU will come, and so will New Mexico, Tulsa, Memphis, and Boise State will come in a hear beat. We should invite Air Force as well, and if they so no, then we invite either San Diego State or UNLV.

More importantly, we make OU, ATM, Texas, OSU, and Missouri pay their exit fees, which would be close to $30 million each. We still hold a few cards.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

We shoulda kept the "Strip" open

out of towners liked the bright lights

"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""

by blackbeard on Sep 8, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

+10000000

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

by Birddog97 on Sep 8, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

damn politicians

GREED.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

They legalized alcohol sales inside the city

Sams, Walmart & the grocery stores finally beat the Pinkies/First Baptist coalition at the polls.

2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!

by mbrown603 on Sep 8, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

mini-mart still open at what used to be the strip.

Pinkie burger (dripping in grease) and a cold one…………..ahhhhhhhh

"As we continue to merely "talk about championships""

by blackbeard on Sep 9, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank goodness...

I’ll have an order of livers with the spicy sauce… and a few cold ones…

"Transition is hard." - TT

by Houston Raider on Sep 9, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that happens, you're forgetting the first two steps...

1) Fire Beebe immediately.
2) Install Equal Revenue Sharing the day after Beebe is replaced.

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

In that scenario we must hold Kansas and Kansas St. within the conference. With what I am reading the Big East is possibility for those two and they are seriously considering those options. You have to ask your self, what type of $$$$ (Fox and ESPN will void the tv contracts if we go to those teams since they are able to if we go below 10 teams) will we get if we add the teams you are mentioning. Yes we may have an automatic bid for a few years, but I doubt that the PAC, SEC, ACC, BIG allow that for too long. If they have majority they can change things. Also I believe the BCS contract is up in 2015 or 2016, things will be up for change then. I do not believe we will be a viable conference even if we can hold the Kansas schools here, we just will not get $$$$, support possible for us to grow to become anymore than what the MWC is today. Thats the reason why Kansas schools would bolt to the Big East if they hold together.

Al

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are right, and I don't know how much the Big East Payout is.

However, the windfall that the remaining teams could receive from the exiting schools could be worth well over $150 million. Divdie that up, and it would be hard pressed to pass up.

While the TV contract would have to be renegotiated, I don’t think the Big 12 would lose too much. Plus, the Big East already has 16 teams. This means that the SEC and ACC woud have to steal from each other. Plus, there are some good teams out there on the East Coast in other conferences.

I believe everyone stays in the Big 12. Turst me, Texas, OU, OSU, ATM, and Missouri are going to d their best to dissolve the league so they do not have to pay exit fees.

Time to lawyer up.

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

And Bibby

Does he get to keep his job? He’s done a poor job of taking care of the nonTUs/OKs.

by 'RedRaider on Sep 8, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't agree with 95% of your post....

Most of your assumptions are based off of Chip Brown (Orange Bloods) , The Mecury Post, sports guy Wilner. and ESPN…All highly suspect and at the very least biased!.

Chip Brown and Espn are the ones who spread the whole Texas may go to the
ACC lie…….their Commish said no way no how!

Chip Brown is the one who spread the whole “legislature is getting involved” lie to stop Aggy from leaving….head of State senate higher education committee….said no way, no how we are NOT getting involved.
He’s a shill for tu and will spread all rumors and lies to get Texas what they want….don’t take the bait….As proof I give you 2010 expansion talk….Pac 16 was a DONE deal according to Chip…oh wait no we were just holding the rest of the conference hostage to get more Money…signed Texas, Ou, and Aggy.

Wilner , the head of the, WE HATE TEXAS TECH fan club…has had a chip on his shoulder, ever since we took his Aaron Rogers qb’d Cal Bears to the wood shed in the Holiday Bowl 2005, where he accused Leach of "running up the score "…heard that one before?
Also keep in mind those PAC12 fans know…Texas, OU, Okie State, and TT come into their conference right now…we DOMINATE that league for the next 5 to 6 years….until they come up to our level of competition

And Finally our friends at the Mother Ship…helping ut build the Death Star….ESPN, saying that only OU was willing to give the waiver to the SEC and A&M ..yesterday…not true says Guy Bailey……“we have no intent of suing A&m or the SEC”…….(but our regents have to vote on that, I can’t sign that waiver)
Doesn’t sound to me like Bailey thinks , “we have no place to go”…..if the conference implodes.
I also would add, I doubt OSU is suing either….why would they..they have their bags packed the Pac as soon as OU says …go!
I say BS to ESPN…all lies to help save the Big 12 and their partner, tu…..save the LongWhoreNetwork.

I sometimes think we as alumni at Tech are our own worse enemy….Texas Tech is a top 25 university in all aspects of football athletics, 25th in product merchandising, 38th most profitable div 1 program, highest rated ESPN bowl game ever, highest rated ABC game of the week ever… 17th most beautiful campus in America…highest graduation rate of all public universities in D1…and the list goes on an on….stop acting like we’re chopped liver….I don’t think Larry Scott thinks we’re chopped liver!

by Bryan Moore on Sep 8, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Amen
I sometimes think we as alumni at Tech are our own worse enemy….Texas Tech is a top 25 university in all aspects of football athletics, 25th in product merchandising, 38th most profitable div 1 program, highest rated ESPN bowl game ever, highest rated ABC game of the week ever… 17th most beautiful campus in America…highest graduation rate of all public universities in D1…and the list goes on an on….stop acting like we’re chopped liver….I don’t think Larry Scott thinks we’re chopped liver!

Golf Clap for You

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/bam_bam_dip/BANNED.jpg

by bambamdip on Sep 8, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Incorrect About Sources

I have listed all the sources I have read for the past 1 year or so underneath:
- http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/ (where it all started BIG conference re-alignment blog)
- http://www.teamspeedkills.com/ (for SEC view)
- http://outkickthecoverage.com/index.php (for Legal and SEC view)
- http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/t/pete_thamel/index.html
- Dallas Morning New Chuck Carlton
- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/stewart_mandel/archive/
- ESPN Ivan Maisel (Respected College Football Writer)
- Chip Brown Orange Bloods
- http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/
- Andy Staples SI College Football Writer
- http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/31799362 (Dennis Dodd CBS Sports)
- http://www.cbssports.com/columns/writers/barnhart (Tony Barnhart SEC Writer CBS Sports)

There are many more, but I will have to dig to get those links, but thats a good start on who has been writing on realighnment for the past year. Your right there is some mercury news and Chip Brown, but I understand their facalcies when it comes to these subjects so I do take that with a grain of salt.

Also a little history about me, I am Management Consultant for a large consulting firm and have been traveling across the country for the past 7 years. I have worked in most major metro areas across the US from NY to Cali and many of my colleagues are around the country. For the first 2 years of my career at the firm I was the only individual with any sort of degree from a Texas school (company is a fortune 500 company, but my group is only 250 ppl). Anyways my point is my the perspective from people outside of Texas and Texas schools is very different and some of these people that are Board of Regents or what have you are not the most educated on what Texas Tech has to offer, which is A LOT in my opinion., But sometimes perception is reality without knowing and it sucks.

I would love our great to school to have great options and Boy would I love to stick to UT and get into the PAC or some other big conference without them, but that’s just not the reality. We are a packaged school kind of deal for these big conferences. We do not provide the TV value these guys need to just grab us by ourselves and some of these schools presidents are snooty blow hards from Academia that don’t know what it really takes to be successful in the real world and judge us on stupid things like AAU and research dollars.

I think the best option for us to try to keep this great conference of ours together and to kick OU in there head to make them realize going to the PAC without us or Texas is utterly stupid and will set there program back decades without getting Texas recruits the Oklahoma schools are NOTHING. I am hoping it is just a ploy for leverage with UT……..

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

my point is...

all those sources are getting their info from the main 3….ESPN, Orange Bloods(UT’s own network), and Wilner (Mercury News)The Pac12’s lead correspondent…with the exception of the maybe The DMN…..but they’re biased towards saving the Big 12 and Texas too.

Conference expansion is going to boil down to one thing and one thing only…..Money.
And regardless of what all the folks you’ve met in your career think or don’t think about Texas Tech……Conference big whigs look at numbers….TV ratings, alumni support, merchandising sales of your products, butts in the seats, and facilities…….and Texas Tech has a pretty impressive record in ALL those categories……Larry Scott doesn’t care what the Mercury News or Chip Brown or your avg. Management Consultant thinks about Tech……he looks at numbers and how those translate into more dollars for his conference…..Texas Tech (thank you Mike Leach) is in pretty good shape!

by Bryan Moore on Sep 8, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree with some Sentiments

Agree, $$$$ is what its about. Oddly enough with the BIG, they care deeply about academics, and one of there requirements has been about AAU membership, Tier 1 Research and being able to admitted to thing thing called the CIC.

The Pac is all about $$$$$, but from my understanding the numbers may not make sense with just only us to the PAC. If you would like more information on why all this is happening and how TV value is estimated and how they run the numbers to make a decision I would recommend this article as a great source. http://pressboxpass.blogspot.com/2011/09/ncaa-conference-realignment-primer.html

And…. I know no one cares about my history, but I just wanted provide context on my opinion and im not just only Texas centric with my opinions (i have some context outside of Texas). Just because I yell my university is great to everybody doesnt mean everybody understands and believes it, just read what national bloggers or columinst write, im not making things up.

And no, NOT everyone is in cahoots with ESPN and Orange bloods to throw us off the trail, there is not a big conspiracy to do what ESPN and Texas wants. Every organizaiton has their own motives and they are not aligned, thats a RIDICULOUS assertion that the New York Times, Sports Illustrated, independent bloggers and CBS Sports is just printing what ESPN and Chip Brown has to say. I mean there is no argument to that, its just absolutely ridiculous.

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just read the article you linked.

Thats probably the best business explaination of this expantion talk I’ve seen. Someone, with more time than I have, could probably start with the authors #’s and work through this mess and come out with a pretty high probability of how it all plays out in the end.

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

by Birddog97 on Sep 8, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bottom line the BIG XII will be no more in 12 months. OU and UT will go to the PAC-#, and bring with them their somewhat smaller companions. In the PAC-#, OU and UT think they will only have to beat each other and USC to get to the conference Championship, after that victory, they’ll get to play for the National Championship against an SEC school every year. With UT, Tech, OU, and OSU, the PAC-# gains portions of population centers such as Houston, D/FW, Austin, San Antone, El Paso, and OK City. That will increase viewership by a few million, and thus give them a larger TV deal.

OU and UT will still get to play the Red River Shootout every year, and the Thanksgiving Day A&M vs UT game will continue just as Georgia plays Georgia Tech, Florida plays Florida St., and South Carolina plays Clemson. Baylor will join C-USA with Iowa St after it loses its courtship with the legal system. KU and K-Statewill go to the Big East, Mizzou will join the Big 10, and Virginia Tech will join in the SEC to bring more of the D.C. market into the SEC once all of A&M’s legal issues are solved (using the precedent the NU and CU were allowed to leave with minimal penalty.)

The Big East, the ACC, the PAC-#, the BIG 10, and the SEC will make up the automatic bid Super Conferences. Once the FBS’s contract with the BCS dissolves in 2015 (or whenever it is,) a mini Play-off System will be born, and all will be well in the world with the exception of losing certain long standing rivalries within the Great State of Texas.

Thoughts Ladies and Gents????

by TEXASUSMC on Sep 8, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope your right

That scenario is what I dream about every night!!!!

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

From your mouth to God's ear

The options for Tech seem to be Pac with UT or nothing. Nothing being landing in a non AQ conference.

2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!

by mbrown603 on Sep 8, 2011 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

The new big"12" would be better without UT and ATM ( who doesn’t want to stay)
With OU, OSU, TTU and Misourri we would remain football strong
With Kansas and Iowa State as well our basketball would be competitive

Add Air Force (Colorado market + national name), BYU and Boise State (Idaho & Utah), Tulane (Louisianna) would bring us back to 12 with good markets

Consider TCU, SMU, Houston, and Tulsa/Louisianna Tech/UTEP/Colorado State for sweet 16 and stability

by fracas on Sep 8, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, and Yes

"I feel sorry for the guys," Tech head coach Tommy Tuberville said. "They fought hard tonight. We didn't look good on offense or defense at times, and at times we looked pretty good. It's just, I don't know. Weird game.

by Btech on Sep 8, 2011 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

OOHHH, My Head Hurts!!!!

@FootballBYU Byu Football
BYU will accept Big 12 offer pending OU signs intent to stay contract… Could be announced as early as Saturday

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/bam_bam_dip/BANNED.jpg

by bambamdip on Sep 8, 2011 11:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Looks like the odds may be in favor of the Big 12 staying together now. All eyes will be on Norman now. I know it won’t happen but it would be nice if some changes were made to promote Big 12 stability if, in fact the conference stays together.

by bflood36 on Sep 8, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, it won't happen...

since BYU will only be interested in the Big XII because they can keep their network. That’s the same network that is run by ESPN, but of course, ESPN isn’t doing anything that’s a conflict of interest in all this right?

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, sorry, I misread...

this. ESPN has possession of BYU’s first-tier rights. So the question is, do those rights roll into the Big XII’s, or does BYU get to keep them to themselves. It should be a ludicrous question to ask, and the answer should be self-evident. However, in this conference, the question is relevant.

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

How will the revenue be divided up

if BYU is added? The conference would come out looking a lot more stable if BYU joins, Bebe is gone, and equal revenue sharing is put in place. I am not to worried about the LHN as long as the NCAA keeps them from showing HS games. In this senario, OU and UT could remain “powerful” in a BCS conference. I think they would both prefer that than traveling to the West Coast/North or going indy.

by wreckem22 on Sep 8, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Looks like this is most likely a bogus rumor.

  ChuckCarltonDMN Chuck Carlton
FYI, BYU to Big 12 report comes from a fan site, http://www.byu-football.com/.

Apparently, the site was last updated last November.

by bflood36 on Sep 8, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

So many of these media outlets...

take what Chip Brown says as gospel. What exactly is the difference?

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes... of course....

BYU gets to keep their own network.. —> further solidifies tu’s desire to keep theirs…
tu and ou keep their larger shares of revenue distribution…
BIg 12 still doesn’t conform to 1st grade mathematics, but tu gets to continue to push everyone around for a few more years until they decide they want to go indy… or maybe ou gets tired of their crap again and takes their exit…
meanwhile, missouri will be in the back room trying to work out their first possible attractive exit…
Make everyone sign contracts that lock them in to this mess until those that can afford to break the contracts decide they want to do something else…
Aggies are going to be brilliant if they can get out of this mess and over to the SEC…

"Transition is hard." - TT

by Houston Raider on Sep 8, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

This would be Incredible

I hope this rumor is true!!!! It just seems to good to be true with soo many wandering eyes……

by Rakesh on Sep 8, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

More than Head Hurts

I am getting nothing but “Tired Head” with all this talk. Why can’t we just have a normal football season. And I would still hate ut just as much.

ut is "The Evil Empire"

by cweber7377 on Sep 8, 2011 11:44 AM CDT reply actions  

TUCK FEXAS

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/bam_bam_dip/BANNED.jpg

by bambamdip on Sep 8, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to be reasonable....

for me at least.
But, if Tech lans in wool sweater territory..many of us will have to bite hard and give KH credit.
If we come out on the other end of it and it looks like all we did is shadow UT, get a torch. If you have been in a business environment very long, you know that you always approach the longshots like you have a chance….and they hit with higher regularity than you think (this would be pitching Tech to PAC without UT). I would expect my leaders in any organization to throw as many Hail Mary’s as possible along with the more likely.
Overall, I’m not freaking out even though the PAC is really where I want us to land. We are Red Raiders, we get NOTHING given to us and we like it that way. It makes us tough and very self reliant….along with a bit of a chip on our shoulder. This is what makes us successful in the business world, as we don’t wait for marching orders and rely on true common sense.
We wil be fine, because we know we are not entitled to everything….we must achieve for ourselves.

"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me

by oldschoolraider on Sep 8, 2011 3:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Agree,

but I still hope we get to prove this in the PAC.

by wreckem22 on Sep 8, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

No doubt...

then we just build from there

"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me

by oldschoolraider on Sep 8, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish the Big East would pull the trigger on this.

There’s also a rumor about Baylor talking to the Big East. Hey Big East, please, please, PLEASE invite all four. That would officially kill the Big XII, it would kill Texas’ idea of having a patsy league with an AQ big, it would quell the lawsuit talk, and the PAC would go back on the offensive, like they did last summer.

by RedRaiderForLife95 on Sep 8, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

After blocking A&M from going to the SEC

Baylor would by hypocritical going off to the Big East

Around here football is bigger than the state of Texas!

by Distant Raider on Sep 8, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

They already were hypocrites by throwing a hissy fit

Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston didn’t sue the Big 8 for absorbing Baylor in 1995.

2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!

by mbrown603 on Sep 8, 2011 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Almost no TV money at stake back then…different landscape entirely, so not a fair or accurate comparison.

by Tech92 on Sep 8, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's different

but the way they got into the big 12 and the way they are playing their hand now, can qualify as hypocritical.

"Trust your gut....mine always finds good Mexican food"
-Me

by oldschoolraider on Sep 8, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

No money was at stake back then...?

It was the newly formed BIg XII’s bargaining power and potential future revenue distributions vs being left out and having to find some other, undoubtedly lesser conference home…? Only difference is the contracts and exact numbers were not yet defined…
Plus, I don’t think money being at stake determines whether something is hypocritical or not…

"Transition is hard." - TT

by Houston Raider on Sep 8, 2011 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's like the old joke about the call girl

We’ve established what you are, now we are just bargaining on price.

2011 Season - No excuses. Just win!

by mbrown603 on Sep 9, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clarification

1) I’m not saying this is how I want things to play out, just that this is what seems to be the most straightforward outcome. I have no inside information on back room deals or other conversations. I’m just saying that some of the things being floated elsewhere don’t pass the logic test for me.
2) I did not say that Tech does not belong in the PAC or any other conference, just that we would need to bring a pretty date. It’s about ensuring even numbers in the conference to balance out the divisions and ease scheduling. Nothing derogatory about Tech here, but we are not a big enough prize alone for a conference to risk getting stuck with an odd number or letting just anyone tag along with us. Aggie brings a lot of TVs to the SEC (more than Tech) and opens up a mostly new market. This is worth a temporary inconvenience/risk of not being able to quickly add another team to even things up in the SEC.
3) C-USA already has 12 teams. The only thing they lack is AQ status. I don’t foresee them being easily raided for partners. This was an unstated assumption.
4) The MWC members are desperate to belong to an AQ conference. Exhibit A) TCU moving to the Big East. If taken as a whole (or at least most members) this would be an easy way to round out the Big XII (I think i would remain the Big XII because if the name). Adding Boise and Air Force balance out, at least to some extent, the loss of NU and A&M.
5) There is a big difference in explicitly excluding 52 – 56 schools and the BCS rules in place today. There is also a lot of bowl $ that these schools would likely get cut out of that they are able to play for today because of conference tie-ins, even if the BCS bowls are kept mostly out of reach. Further, explicitly excluding them from a 64 team league would severely limit other revenue streams in TV contracts, etc. by hurting brand value, and it wreaks of an illegal trust/collusion.

by NM99 on Sep 8, 2011 8:40 PM CDT reply actions  

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