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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

The Vaunted Alabama Defense

Yes, Bama has a good defense ... that was apparent Monday night, but as I was doing a little research about who they played this year, I found this interesting: only one team, Arkansas, was ranked in the Top 30 for total offense. They came in 29th.

Here are the rest of their opponents and respected rankings for Total Offense:

Kent State #119 North Texas #96 Penn State #95 Auburn #100 Vandy #98

Miss. State #85 LSU #73 South Carolina #75 Ole Miss #114 Tenn #104 CORRECTION ADDED: Florida #105

The only opponent that I didn't include was Georgia Southern.

So, I am wondering if Bama's defense is as good as advertised or if they caught a break playing a bunch of team with inept offenses, Arkansas, excluded

How would Bama's defense have fared in the Big 12 or Pac 12? Would they have an answer for RGIII or OSU? Would Tech had given them a run for their money?

k

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.

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I don't know

how was LSU’s offense ranked?

I can say that for me, two games and 6 hours or so of viewing time watching these two teams was boring for me and my non-significant other. I would rather watch Baylor and West Virginia play…

By-in-by, just read a headline today about running backs, and therefore running offenses, are becoming extinct in the NFL, that it is ‘passing the sets up the run’ and it is passing that is the key to offenses today. I thought that was interesting, just in case Tuberville got his jollies from watching the relatively boring Alabama/LSU field goal championships.

by bilesteve on Jan 11, 2012 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

battle red blog

the Texans blog, has a post today about how important the rushing attack is to have any chance against the ravens, given all the injuries and such. the evolution of the game is indeed an interesting thing, but the second running offenses go completely extinct, is the second that defenses stop defending against it. and the second that happens, a clever coach will realize it and wreck shop with a running offense. all my opinions no doubt. or also, what goes around comes around

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 11, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

LSU was ranked #73.

In fact 8 of the 11 FBS teams Bama played this year had offenses ranked #90 or below. Arkansas at #29, LSU at #73, and South Carolina at #75 fared better.

by Arizona Raider on Jan 11, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

And Arkansas scored 24...enough to win most games.

11/12/11...66-6...I once was blind, but now I see.

by Tech92 on Jan 11, 2012 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Arkanas

actually only scored 14 against Bama, but I sure thought their offense was better than that.
They threw for over 500 against a & phlegm.

by redraider90 on Jan 12, 2012 10:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Interesting whats happening in SEC -

a&m’s new coach is offense minded and Florida is trying to revise their offense by hiring Boise’ States OC.

by TDSTAR on Jan 12, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

UT just hired Boise State's longtime OC last year

So if they’re getting his replacement he’s only been OC at what is still a small school one year. How is that a great hire for Florida?

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 12, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

north texas?

got to play bama? what the hell?

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 11, 2012 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

The Eagles won too. They had to play the game a second time & make everybody promise to keep it a secret

The Alabama SID office claimed a power outage as the reason why the score that day was 4 hours late in coming.

If at 1st you don’t succeed, try try again.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 11, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent Post, Arizona.

points to the excellent argument for ok state. oh what could have been.

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 11, 2012 1:08 PM CST reply actions  

I think its a little of both

Alabama has great defensive players, but they are never forced to defend the entire field.

Get your kicks, on route 66...

by ReneR on Jan 11, 2012 1:14 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Have you ever seen a team from Arkansas I think they play in Jerry World every now and again

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

nope, never

Get your kicks, on route 66...

by ReneR on Jan 11, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

IMO

I think Alabama’s defense is all of what it’s advertised. I saw a near perfect display of hitting and attacking the ball. Those guys knew a whole lot about tackling and assignments IMO and I think they would be just as good if they played in the Big 12.

"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach

by Raider1992 on Jan 11, 2012 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

I agree...the 'Bama defense is the real deal...however

a number of Big 12 teams could generate more than 92 yards offense (probably some Texas 5A HS teams that could get more than 92 yards)….but that aside, ’Bama deserves to be #1.

"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."

by snc915 on Jan 11, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I saw a really well coached and disciplined Bama Defense.

Possibly the center for LSU could have been telling the DL the plays.

"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.

by Btech on Jan 13, 2012 7:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Centers are reputed to do that !!

Comes with the territory.

Living large in Texas...Texas forever.

by TallMike on Jan 14, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree

After watching this bowl season, I was starved for a defensive performance. I didn’t necessarily want to see a low scoring game, but wanted a strong defensive display.

Alabama delivered.
I didn’t know linebackers with that much size could move that well. Secondary was very tight too.

by Tn Raider on Jan 11, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me answer for Gus

The only reason those offenses are ranked so low is that they have to play against SEC defenses. If those offenses played against Big 12 defenses then they would be ranked near the top. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Has anyone seen my sarc font, I can’t seem to find it.

Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.

by FriscoRaider on Jan 11, 2012 1:32 PM CST reply actions  

Thats good

I got so fired up, I skipped right over to make my own reply

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I couldn’t help myself, knew that you would have some fun with this FanPost.

Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.

by FriscoRaider on Jan 11, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

How about the Irony

of a Texas Tech board talking extensively like they know about defense

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

DTN knows defense

its the coaches that have the problem

We ought to Haboob his ass

by blackbeard on Jan 11, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

TuBS obviously agrees that a SEC style defense just won’t work in the Big 12. He brought in that Alabama fellow as the DC and fired him after one season.

Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.

by FriscoRaider on Jan 11, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Worked out pretty good for Texas this year

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

They had a SEC style offense as well.

Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.

by FriscoRaider on Jan 11, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

You are exactly right. That defense is overrated

Case in point: 2008. SEC champs Alabama played Utah in the Sugar Bowl. Bama’s defensive ranking? #3 in the nation.

Sugar Bowl result: Utah 33 Bama 19.

This is what would have happened if either LSU or Bama would have played Oklahoma State or Stanford this year.

by jef on Jan 11, 2012 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

Why you shilling for Okie Lite ?

and using a one off like Utah is like saying that since Boise beat OU in the Fiesta Bowl then Boise is better against any XII team in any year

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

So Baylor should be NC!

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

No, but the get to play in the Alamo Bowl.

"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.

by Btech on Jan 13, 2012 7:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

and then Florida held a team that scored 60 for 5 games straight to only 14. I think most people would say Alabam played terribly in that game.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 11, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

JEEZE

Do we really have to debate this?

I will agree with you that these rankings are skewed but the same can be said both ways.

The XII offenses are just as over-rated and the XII defenses are under-rated. The SEC offenses are just as under-rated as the SEC defenses are over-rated. I will tell you this, it didnt seem like any of the SEC teams had any trouble scoring points in their bowl games.

SC 30 v. Nebraska (W)
Fla 24 v. Ohio State (W)
Arkansas 29 v Purple KS (W)
Auburn 43 v. Virginia (W)

Now if the XII would have won any one of the last five cotton bowls I think you might have a point, but since the great offenses of the XII cant even win one then I think this argument is quite mute

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 3:03 PM CST reply actions  

Depends?

Simple rule of thumb: Everything before the but is BS.

by FriscoRaider on Jan 11, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

no CVS brand

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Either or Both as long as its not those damm bags my ole lady buys and are all over the back of the car that cost money ! and you are supposed to remember to take them in

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 11, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

So I'm not the only one!

Good to know. My wife expects me to bring those as well.

"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach

by Raider1992 on Jan 12, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

but,

she’s “helping” the environment by using “reusable” bags, just like everyone else who buys those things.

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 12, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea the only thing it Helps is the sales of HEB

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 13, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with your argument except

in one of the last five Cotton Bowls (2008) Big 12-4+2 Missouri beat SEC Arkansas 31-7.

Texas Tech gave it a pretty good shot in 2009 against Ole Miss who “won the game 47–34, in what turned out to be the highest scoring game in front of the largest Cotton Bowl Classic crowd in history.”

2006 Alabama won vs Texas Tech 13-10.

by Raider2010 on Jan 12, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

that bad call was way early on

I claim that loss as being beat by the ugliest field goal in the history of organized football

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I got on hell of a sunburn that day on Jan 1, got to love Texas !

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Man I miss bowl games, they were fun

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I miss them, too, Gus!

Bowl games I mean. A thing of the past for Tech.

by redraider90 on Jan 12, 2012 10:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I dont count the Ticket City bowl either

I mean real like during the day games not a 6AM kickoff with a stadium at 1/10th of its capacity

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 13, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

I was at that Cotton Bowl in 2009 (last real outdoor game) and they wooped us on the field and in the stands, we held our ground but they just had more practice drinking.

I knew we were in trouble when the Miss fans were carrying their supplies (including bags of ice) through the park gates and on to the fair grounds, meanwhile us locals were concerned with the legality (which its not) of having a can of beer in the streets of Dallas

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Not that I condone it

But I thik part of that is because the XII team that makes that bowl is usually disappointed cause they barely missed a BCS bowl and the SEC team that makes it is usually happy to make a good bowl. Like 2008 11-1 Tech team against a 8-4 Ole Miss. This is the same principle that explains our 04 trouncing of Cal. Not sure we were really a better team but Cal’s heart wasn’t in the game.

by ttuvault615 on Jan 13, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Well Georgia Southern did score 21 points on the Tide at Bryant-Denny

Would have like to seen Okie State been given the chance, but of course the only good football is played in the SEC.

by idaho_techsan on Jan 11, 2012 4:45 PM CST reply actions  

SEC teams have no offense

i can only think of Arkansas having a top 50 offense. Of course their defenses are going to be good when none of them have an offense. I would have loved to okie state vs lsu in the NC.

"You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game." Herm Edwards

by TTU FAN on Jan 11, 2012 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

SEC

bad offenses, some pretty good defenses

sad tech fan is sad :(

by wrench_raider on Jan 11, 2012 5:45 PM CST reply actions  

Today and only today I am loving SEC defenses & offenses

The national title game was so bad the BCS is talking about having a 4 team playoff next year. They even have the Big 10 commissioner on board this time. They stared into the abyss that is SEC style football & they all cried “UNCLE”.

Whatever it takes.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 11, 2012 6:00 PM CST reply actions  

Actually

the SEC proposed a +1 in 2008. If they got their way and people didn’t shrug it off, Oklahoma St. would’ve had their chance and given people a chance to see a less boring game.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 12, 2012 12:47 AM CST up reply actions  

That's pretty much how the SEC works...

If everyone in the conference has a suck ass offense, you can claim to have a great defense. And then all the folks at ESPN will crow and chest-thump talking about you on national television.

by battledome on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 PM CST reply actions  

and good on them...

they were the only team from the SEC that had any success against top non-conference competition this year…

if their offense hadn’t been so fucking inept against Alabama during the NCG, we’d all be talking about how Bama didn’t belong and how OSU should have had a shot… they threw the game away with poor playcalling and poor execution… Bama didn’t win, LSU lost

by battledome on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Bingo.

Les Miles’s stubborness lost the game. No way Jefferson should’ve stayed in. Lee should have played at least the entire second half. Dude won you 9 games, let him win you the big one too ya dummy.

by RdrPwr on Jan 12, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Les’ inability to have his team mentally hyped to play the game had more to do with the loss that being stubborn about Jarret Lee, at that point it would have taken one hell of a momentum swing.

Why he thought their offense could get to the boundary against Alabama I will never know. Miles never gave them a chance, the poor play calling allowed Alabama DLine to get penetration all night. Or you can say it was just chicken and egg, either way that O line wasnt buying even a few seconds. I would have loved to see them eat Weeden all night long, so yea maybe Im more of a playoff guy now than before

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Bottom Line

One of the most boring games….of ANY games I have seen…. ever. Bama does have a good D, as does LSU. But, with as bad an offense as LSU showed, how in the world did they go undefeated? Oh yea. The rest of the offenses in the SEC suck even worse….yea.

TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill

by TTpilk645 on Jan 11, 2012 10:40 PM CST reply actions  

One team showed up / One team didnt

That always makes for embarrassing football, I cant imagine paying all that money for tickets/travel and your team or at least half of your team doesn’t show up

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 12, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

115 miles from Midland to Lubbock

did that a lot last two years.

We ought to Haboob his ass

by blackbeard on Jan 12, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

ouch

We ought to Haboob his ass

by blackbeard on Jan 12, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

537

from richmond to lubbock. o wait, i already live here. but i only went to the nevada game this year. at least it was worth going to!

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 12, 2012 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

537 Steps?

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 13, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

yup

bottom lines don’t lie. also anyone who knows churchill quotes is smart anyway

by Jameson Vernon on Jan 12, 2012 8:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Lady Astor: "Winston! You are drunk!"

Winston Churchill: “That is true Madame, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly”.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 12, 2012 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I think everyone

needs to go back to Gus’ post.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 12, 2012 12:45 AM CST reply actions  

Bama does have a ridiculous defense

but they were made to look much better Monday night than they are. They have the speed at LB to defend the option sideline to sideline, so it’s pretty easy to gameplan when you know your opponent can’t throw the ball. I’m sure they would still do well in the Big 12, but the defense would be stretched much thinner and many more points would prob be scored on them throughout the course of the season IMO.

by ttuvault615 on Jan 13, 2012 10:40 AM CST reply actions  

And I would argue that

Texas gets similar talent to Bama defensively but their defenses are rarely statistically as good because they face great offenses weekly

by ttuvault615 on Jan 13, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Bottom Line

We’ll never know because of the stupid system in place. Defense is a much bigger deal in the SEC. Offense is a bigger deal in the Big12. If these teams would play more often I think you’d see the defenses come out on top more often, but it’d still be a hell of a lot more entertaining than that crap we were subjected to on Monday.

by Big50 on Jan 13, 2012 11:33 AM CST reply actions  

Playing more often

Like the agreement that the Big 10 and Pac-Con have just put into place, we should do that with the SEC

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 13, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

A home and away

with Ole Miss or Auburn would be great. Might even make a good ABC or CBS game with cTTs ties to both schools.

by ATX_Raider on Jan 13, 2012 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

With a 9 team round robin in conference that doesn't leave much schedule to play with

Plus since coaches have incentives if they reach a bowl game, the 3 extra wins against lesser schools gets you half way home before you start playing conference games. I would love if teams had only 6 conference games & 6 non conference. Half your schedule would be cross conference. Require at least 3 of those 6 games be against teams in other major conferences. Only so many schools will be able to get Minnesota and Vanderbilt in those slots.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 13, 2012 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

May I point out

The 49ers are manhandling the elite offense of NO. Defense still wins championships.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 4:13 PM CST reply actions  

Turnovers

Crab is coming up big in this game, already put up 7.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I still feel pretty comfortable with my wager on this game

Got NO going to the big one. Offense wins Superbowls.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Defense wins champioships - except when it doesn't

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 14, 2012 7:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Higher seeded home teams win playoff games

Except when they don’t.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 14, 2012 7:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

How did that work out Sunday

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 16, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Kinda like

how the offense solidified their win in the superbowl by picking off peyton manning for a touchdown? No wait, that was the defense….

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 4:57 PM CST reply actions  

Even old coot Dan Reeves has figured out that things have changed

Former NFL coach Dan Reeves said he has become convinced it’s possible in today’s NFL for a team with major defensive flaws to win the Super Bowl. He recalled watching the Indianapolis Colts surrender 375 rushing yards to the Jacksonville Jaguars in a December game in 2006, before they went on to win the Super Bowl. Those Colts ranked last in rushing defense and 21st in total defense.

“It’s not who plays great defense and runs the ball any more,” Reeves said. “That’s the old-school way. If it was about that, you could give the trophy to San Francisco right now.”

This from a Pittsburgh http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12008/1202148-66-0.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

BTW, Pittsburgh didn’t loose that game to Tbow last week because they don’t have a great D. They lost because their QB was hurt and they couldn’t score. If the MNC was determined by playoffs instead of voters, it would be the same result.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

Let me help you with that

38 of the 45 SB champions had top 10 defenses. 5 of the last playoff games that featured a top 10 offense against a top 10 defense (both could be top 5… it’s either 5 or 10) the defensive team has won all 5. I’m not saying offense doesn’t score the points to win, but if defense didn’t exist, every game would be a tie, which is why depending on how good your defense is does a great deal determining the result of the game.

Regarding that link: TLDR, but I got the gist it was trying to make the argument that defense is virtually unnecessary. Both the Patriots and Packers have given up a ton of yards, but they are better than half of the league in points allowed (ranked ~14th & ~15th), and are in the top 3 in takeaways. Let me tell you as a Pats fan, that if NE’s defense didn’t get all those takeaways, they’re 3-13 instead of 13-3 (maybe not entirely, but you get the point).

Now about the Broncos-Steelers game, the reason the Steelers lost were for a couple reasons. The most notable was NOT the injuries, but the defensive game plan. They did not respect Tebow as a deep threat passer, and because of that, they loaded the box with 8-9 man fronts and man-to-man coverage all game, which screams easy deep throws. Deep passes in general are really not difficult, as long as the QB and receiver have a good feel for each other, accuracy isn’t really an issue, simply knowing how far to throw. This really shows as about half of Tebow’s passes were huge gains, a few were intermediate and only a couple were successfully completed short throws. The most latter is the most difficult as you’re dealing with pin-point accuracy and having the ability to read the coverage so fast you understand who is most capable to catch the ball. So in case you didn’t notice, so many of Tebow’s short throws were WAY OFF, hence only 10 completions.

The second issue wasn’t Ben being injured, because he was mostly fine (4 weeks after the initial injury), but the injuries on the offensive/defensive line and more importantly, in the secondary. That should say enough for itself after I explained how Tebow exploited the defensive game plan.

Basically, offense can win games through exploiting the defense, but the best teams, the championship teams, 84.4% of the time have great defenses. It’s a rather simple idea, I mean, people say whoever scores the most points win, but who exactly are the guys getting scored on? The defense. So the saying really should be rephrased to: whichever defense allows to get scored on the least wins.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

wait,

did a Patriots fan really just try to use his team as an example of defense winning championships?

This is rich.

I’ll take my chances that the once again the superbowl will be won by a team with a great offense. Just like the Patriots.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

You're missing the point.

A team can win games with a not so great defense by tilting the responsibilty on the offense, but the better investment is a great defense. Period. The Patriots allow the 15th least pts/game (the difference between 15th and 14th is .2) and as far as I’m concerned, I think people would rather have a defense be that way, than give up the 14th least amount of yds/game and give up the 31st least pts/game. And when was the last time a great offense won the team a superbowl? Are you going to say the Packers? As far as my memory goes, I remember there being a defensive touchdown in that game that was larger than the difference of the scoring outcome. Oh and the Steelers offense wasn’t able to piece together a game winning drive thanks to the Packers’ defense. I don’t know how this isn’t more obvious to you…

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Keep answering your own questions,

it’s much easier to get you to the obvious outcome and saves us all the headache. Here’s your assignment… list the last 10 SB winners, and tell us which ones were the great offensive teams and which were the great defensive teams.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 7:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You've got one right so far with GB

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Alrighty...

Next up is NO. They solidified their win with a pick 6. Then it’s the Steelers, and they basically dominated the game defensively for about 2 1/2 quarters and a late rally by the Cardinals was not enough to beat the Steelers, but I’ll give the Steeler’s the win based on an offensive drive that regained the lead. Then it’s the Giants. They rattled Brady and stalled that great offense all game, giving up only 14 points. Colts before that… my memory isn’t so great on that, but I know it was pretty rainy so I’m assuming turnovers were what cost the Bears a chance at a win. We got the Steelers again who dominated the Seahawks defensively letting them only score 10 points. Then New England twice, with NE pretty much having the lead the whole game against McNabb and the Eagles, not giving in to their offensive strives for the lead and then I’ll say offense got them in position to win against Carolina, but Adam Vinitarie was the key to the game winning points. The year before was Tampa… they dominated that game on all three phases. And NE against the Rams was the same story as Carolina in terms of the situation that won the game.

So if I’m not mistaken, I have NE twice and the Steelers winning based on offense. Though I think all three teams had top 10 defenses, so it really doesn’t help your argument, especially considering none had particularly prolific offenses, and even if they did, they didn’t score more than 30 (on offense)

Do you have anything else to throw at me, because me rebutting your claims with you just ignoring them and offering no rationale for your position is getting old.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

you've tried to argue that Greenbay wins because they are a great defensive team

and the same for the Patriots?

This is why you get ignored.

The majority of the last 10 superbowl winners were the great offensive teams. You get a 0 for not even attempting the assignment. Can we expect better from you in the future?

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Can you

quote me on that great defensive team thing you keep accusing me of claiming the Packers and Patriots are? I can’t seem to find it. Otherwise, I’ll lol @ u for a second and get back to the playoff game that deserves more of my attention.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 8:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Your team is having one of the great offensive performances in playoff history.

You should enjoy it. There’s nothing wrong with great offenses winning championships. Fact is, the NFL has changed, and if the games were played instead of voted on, the BCS would change too.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 14, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Remember when you mocked the New England defense?

How did they do last night? It’s awesome Brady scored 6 TDs, but it wouldn’t have mattered if the defense gave up 7.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Because the offense got so far ahead so fast

that the defense could do whatever they wanted. C’mon man, it’s ok. Just enjoy the fact that you have one of the most prolific offenses in the game and arguably the best QB to play the position, and that’s how you win championships.

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 15, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

How does that make sense?

If the defense doing whatever they want throughout a game allows only 10 points per game, why doesn’t everyone do that?

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW

Hopefully you didn’t see that prolific Packers offense get humiliated by the (and this hurts to say it) great pass rush that is NYG.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I took a beating on the Saints AND Packers

Also saw the unforced turnovers in both games. Now excuse me, I have to go sell my car to pay off my gambling debts. Thank baby Jesus I still have the Patriots

"Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles." ~ RW Emerson

by raider realist on Jan 16, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

That NFL is tricky, but its about all weve got right now.

do you make the pilgrimage very often ? or just sticking to the offshores

College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................

"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas

by Gus Mitchem on Jan 18, 2012 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Your theory just got Grahamed

Go Niners. Win one for the defenses.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 14, 2012 7:08 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Awkward

for you. A team with a top 5 defense just beat a team with a top 5 offense. That’s 6-0 in the last 6 playoff games featuring a top 5/10 defense against a top 5/10 offense.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

And now the crowd is chanting

defense.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

the only

Thing awkward is your consistent condescension and moniker.

This is a 3 ring circus up in here......

by oldschoolraider on Jan 14, 2012 7:49 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

It wouldn't be condenscending

if I was wrong. What can I say, I know a lot.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

1)a factually accurate person can be condescending…oops
2)I’m sure you have lots of participation ribbons to back up your mindset

This is a 3 ring circus up in here......

by oldschoolraider on Jan 14, 2012 8:26 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah

you are right, I am a little condescending, but it’s warranted after smart ass comments like “Your theory just got Grahamed. Go Niners. Win one for the defenses.” “Defense wins champioships – except when it doesn’t” & “Higher seeded home teams win playoff games – Except when they don’t.”

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

If you know so much why do you keep spouting cliches?

Use some original, nuanced thought. “Defense wins championships”. So did Vince Lombardi. But he’s been gone 40 years. So has the truth of that old cliche.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 15, 2012 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Because

they’re still relevant. The offensive play has changed, points per game has changed, but not the fact the defense keeps offenses from scoring more points than their own teams’.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

When a person is right

and I’m not saying whether I think you are, Mr. Lot, there isn’t a need to be condescending. It’s a very unappealing trait, and one that won’t win you fans, friends or admirers.

Die-hard Texas Tech girl & new Cougar (fan)! Bring it!

by Austin, Tx on Jan 14, 2012 8:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Implying

potential admirers are angels and don’t make smart ass comments that warrant my behavior. That’s not an insult to their character or themselves, but their comments, so hopefully you can see the difference.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

everyone on this

Board sticks around despite shitty football for two years because (as I have always professed) red raiders are the most personable group around. Voted most likely to have a beer with.
There is nothing to prove here, and the dialogue can be great if you will allow it.

This is a 3 ring circus up in here......

by oldschoolraider on Jan 14, 2012 9:01 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I can see the difference

between making condescending comments regarding what someone said v their character. And I never suggested anyone here is an angel (myself being the obvious exception…).

My point is that we debate things without snark. We do it with facts (ideally & hopefully more often), opinions (all the time), etc. We don’t make it personal. Except when we do…which happens occasionally but not often.

We save the snark for disappointment over a game, a questionable hire, Tuberville’s constant consternation over the wind in Lubbock, etc. In those cases it’s still done with humor the majority of the time.

Believe it or not, we’re trying to help you out. Clearly you are a fan, you’re knowledgeable, you have strong opinions like most of us do…no need to be combative…just have fun with us!!

Die-hard Texas Tech girl & new Cougar (fan)! Bring it!

by Austin, Tx on Jan 14, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Both defenses gave a total of 4 touchdowns in less than three minutes - Who did they give those up to?

Offenses. And the home team won. That’s the telling stat. Home teams win playoff games. At least every one has this year. And obviously a game that can switch leads 4 times in the final three minutes is literally a game that could have gone either way. I want to see actual defense be responsible for a win before acknowledging the truth of a dated cliche.

"...Fight for the school we love so dearly"

by mbrown603 on Jan 15, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

That's the problem

For some reason, you think the phrase “Defense wins championships” means the defense makes the final stand at the last minutes of the game and “wins the game” for the team. Negatory. Football teams play for 60 minutes, not the final 1 or 2 minutes. Yes, the way that game worked out had the the 49ers score a TD in the final seconds, but what if they scored all 36 in the first quarter and simply held off the Saints to 32 throughout the rest of the game?

A team can score as many points as they want, but if their defense can’t stop the other team, it’s irrelevant. Like I’ve said before, if the defense didn’t even take the field, the game would end in a tie. Even in shootouts, something has got to give. For example, the Baylor-Washington game. That was like 67-56? Something like that, but in case you don’t remember, Baylor was down by double digits at the half. If not for their defense to hold Washington, not just long enough for Baylor to cover the spread, but also get the lead, Baylor loses. And before you say the offense had to score those points, it was dependent on the defense to get them their win because even if Baylor outscored Washington in the second half by a score of, for example, 40-30, Washington still gets the win. So even by the time Baylor scores 42 and gets the lead (these are all made up numbers remember), it’s because their defense kept Washington from scoring more.

But maybe this would be more simply and effectively said if I just make my point based upon what you said yourself, “Both defenses gave (up) a total of 4 touchdowns…” Like you just said, it was the defense to blame for letting the offense score.

I’m just not sure how you can keep believing what you’re saying when the historicity of the game is obviously on my side. 6 straight BCS national championships made up of SEC teams whose defenses defeated high powered offenses (Ohio State TWICE, Oklahoma, Oregon, and even an LSU offense that scored 36 points per game). 38 of the 4 SB champions have had top 10 defenses and 6 of the last playoff games that have featured a top 10/5 (I can’t remember for the life of me which it is, but the point remains the same) defense against a top 10/5 offense, the defensive teams are 6-0.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

38 of 45 SB champions**

Oh and for what it’s worth, crowds chant “D-FENCE” not “AWE-FENCE”

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you see

that high scoring offense of Green Bay only rectify my totally foreign theory? ;)

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I tried

but they started it >:(

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 9:10 PM CST reply actions  

Which means

I’m done.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't go

You’ve made a lot of good comments and contributed. See my post above and see if it helps at all. No one here wants to chase anyone away.

The discussions would be boring if their weren’t different points of view.

Die-hard Texas Tech girl & new Cougar (fan)! Bring it!

by Austin, Tx on Jan 14, 2012 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

It's cool

Haha, I just saw things were going to get out of hand once the topic of argument turned from football to me being condescending, so I stopped myself. I’ve just been enjoying the Pats game filled with great defense all around and record setting/tying offense. Turns out Belichick was just trolling everyone all year with his defense.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 14, 2012 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Hate to say I told you so but ....

You may remember when all this started I posted a reply to one of your comments stating you would not win this argument on DTN. Now you know why I posted that comment. I was trying to give you a warning without coming right out and saying it can get quite brutal at times on DTN. Especially when you disagree, or better yet when you don’t agree with some of the more “popular” positions. Been there, done that, got rebuked, backed off, still don’t post much.

However, I still enjoy DTN. Why? Several reasons.
1. I bleed Red and Black
2. I love football – high school (privileged to live in West TX where we take Friday Night Lights pretty serious) & college are by far my favorites.
3. There are actually some very knowledgeable football guys (& gals) on this site.
4. Seth does a fantastic job administering the site.
5. I really get a kick out of some of the bantering that goes on, especially when you can step back, take a breath and chill a bit.
6. Because of what I do as a hobby I have very thick skin! Haha.

Why respond to you? Simply because you seem to be one of those that I might put in the “knowledgeable” category. Plus I love to see someone going head on with the “establishment”. So hang in there!!

by tturef on Jan 15, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Was it the Bama-LSU game thread?

I think I do remember being told that very statement on some other fan post or thread. Either way, you were correct. It is rather difficult to keep my composure about something I feel like should be fundamentally known and yet here are a lot of people that tend not to think so.

So are you telling me to back off or keep going? ;-) this thread is starting to look a little ugly with my thumbnail pretty much all up and down the page though

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 15, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

It was "open thread" on Jan 2nd

Simply trying to let you know the “establishment” enjoys the bantering. Especially with a newbie. Some simply say stuff to try and get a rise out of the other party. Just gotta try and not take it personal – or make it personal. Very hard to do that at times because it’s so hard to tell what the other person’s angle or purpose is. Just continue to state your case and don’t back down. You will eventually garner some respect. Odd, but it’s like anything else, you just gotta pay your dues. Hope that helps.

by tturef on Jan 16, 2012 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

The other thing that helps...

…is to not have an “in your face” tone to your posts. I don’t know if you agree with that or not tturef.

But I do agree not to back down from the point you’re making that you believe in.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain

by Austin, Tx on Jan 16, 2012 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Mmm...I meant more with attitude with your words, not body parts...

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain

by Austin, Tx on Jan 16, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

AKA...

…no one likes a know it all. Well, first of all no one actually knows it all. But it will make people either be combative with you or dismiss you.

Just my two cents on how your views might be better received… :-)

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain

by Austin, Tx on Jan 16, 2012 8:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Usually people get annoyed with know it alls not because they “know it all” but they are too, for a lack of a better word, willing to share what they know. Those people will concede that the know it all “knows it all” (figuratively) though, so I guess this implies I’m probably right (I only debate things when I feel like validity is on my side) but I should do it with less attitude? Either way, I feel like the debate would have continued regardless of my attitude with probably the same outcome. After all, I think there are probably only a couple of people on DTN (at most) that agree with me amidst however huge amounts people that participate on DTN.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 16, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you should do whatever you want however you want

Seriously. I’m not an authority on anything. I think differing points of view are great and part of what makes DTN interesting.

I think your enthusiasm is great!

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain

by Austin, Tx on Jan 17, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I’m particularly notorious amongst those that know me that I don’t give up. That’s not to say I have haven’t been wrong, because when I am I do concede points.

I’m sure the quality of viewpoints I bring here will more than justify myself than simply time spent, but I see where you’re coming from.

Shawn Johnson... she's a nice lady

by Noah Lot on Jan 16, 2012 8:19 PM CST up reply actions  

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