The 2013 QB Targets - What that tells us
by Gus Mitchem on Jan 18, 2012 10:42 AM CST
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There are three guys listed as QB targets for the 2013 Class
Kenny Hill- 6-1 205LBS Pro Style, Southlake
JT Barrett - 6-1 209LBS Dual Threat, WF Rider
Tyrone Swoopes 6-5 220LBS Dual Threat, Whitewright
Looks like we are going to the dual threat, which generally means (at the HS Level) running QBs, maybe a shade better passers than the guys classified as ATH but not by too much.
Guys on the college level generally cant read, pass and run well enough to produce enough short completions for first downs. The Cam Newtons are about 1 in 500.
If you consider the guys that were most successful (Kingsbury, Symmons, Harrell) they were great at the read and making accurate throws.
Now I know you will say that was because ML discouraged running. In that vain ML also knew that guys can only be so good and its more important to make the right throw to the right place at the right time, there are only so many practice reps
If were going to be different, tuBS just needs to admit that the scheme is "evolving" and start selling us on the high points and stop trying to sell us the AirRaid/Nascar crap.
These are definitely not AirRaid moves.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Double-T Nation's writers or editors.
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This may also be an indication of the talent, or lack thereof, of drop-back passers at this time in the 2013 class. This list from Scout seems to have a few more: http://texastech.scout.com/a.z?s=188&p=9&c=4&pid=10&yr=2013
And I think it’s important to clarify that Swoopes and Barrett may be two of the best players in the state, so they’re no-brainers. Hill is also one of the top QB’s as well. Also take a look on that Scout link. I don’t know about offers, but there are plenty mentions of Houston, West Virginia, Oklahoma St., Missouri and Baylor for me to know that these are all most likely guys that are spread quarterbacks in high school.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Might tell us Brewer starts in 2012
This is also why, in looking at Tubby’s off-season moves and acquisitions, I have been saying there is a good chance we will hear that Brewer “beats out” Doege as starting QB .
I like Doege and think he more than deserves a second season, but if Tubby is playing for his job, then he will go away from the spread to the dual-threat and I feel that would relegate Doege to backup. We’ll see.
I think that if Tuberville is coaching for his job (and I do) I think the chances are not very good for a redshirt freshman playing. If Tuberville is looking to give himself more time, then I think he plays a redshirt freshman. I think that Doege is most likely the better QB, but there will be a lot to learn this spring (BTW, spring practice starts in February).
And I hope we can all distinguish that I don’t think Tuberville is going away from the spread, not with the personnel on the team, so I don’t think that’s really a discussion point. The distinction is that Tuberville has a spread QB in Brewer that’s more mobile that Young or Doege, but Brewer is still a spread QB.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Agree
I think Doege’s the solid starter in 2012 mainly because he has full year of experience under his belt. Tuberville needs some consistency in who starts. If he’s going to make changes of any kind look to the defensive side of the ball where 90% of our problems remain. The offense isn’t broken or at least not yet.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
Agreed. Doege is more likely to be starter.
"This time it's different."
by LondonRaider on Jan 18, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
I think it will be Brewer. He has a lot of talent.
He graded out better than any QB in the spring even though he should have still been in HS. I would not be suprised at all to see Doege start, but Brewer will be starting by midseason, if not sooner.
I think Seth nailed it, Tommy is coaching for an add one. Once all hell breaks loose, then Brewer will be forced into action, and I expect Brewer to do well.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
No, I don’t think the spread per se will be abandoned. I do not expect to see Tech look like Stanford or K-State, however, it is my impression that Tubby would like to emulate Baylor, with a QB capable of beating you with feet or arm, and a 100 yd-per-game rusher like Ganaway. I feel that is what we may see. If so, then I don’t think Tubby sees Doege as a scrambler. Brewer is indeed a redshirt but I was led to believe that in game prep for the Baylor game, Brewer played the RGIII role; he is used to this style, he knows the playbook, he only lacks game time. Note that I prefer Doege as the starter, I am just hypothesizing Tubby’s possible intentions based on recent talk, coaching hires and new player acquisitions. We’ll see.
Likely
I think it’s a very fair assessment based on who is being recruited and who, in reality, Tubs is. He is not an AirRaid guy, nor fan…it’s only a matter of time before he transitions to what he believes in: the power running game. It’s more than conceivable that we stay in a spread look (gun QB with 2 backs and 3 WR, or 2 WR and a TE) and become a power running team. Auburn, Michigan and Nebraska all have the appearance of the spread but just flat out run the heck outta the ball. As for the future, I think Doege is still the guy, though he clearly could never handle 15-20 carries a game…not at all sure how I feel about that, as I still believe Scotty Young is by far the most talented QB on our roster. The transition to power running still has a few years left, assuming (please Lord NO!) tuBS is around for another several years, but I have no doubts about his intent. Fact is, our “AirRaid” (as told by tuBS) OC may not be around after signing day, and almost certainly is outta here after next year. The chances are that the next guy will be in the mold of Nebraska, Auburn, or Michigan or any other gun school that uses the QB as a RB. I think it is more than fairly self-deluding to assume tuBS sticks with a pass-heavy offense in perpetuity…it’s just not his personality. I find it unfortunate that the AirRaid is slowly dying, as it was what put Tech on the map and is the only truly special thing Tech football has ever had, but I’d be delusional myself if I claimed that one couldn’t win with the Auburn/Nebraska/Michigan/KState QB run game. Don’t like it one bit though. Btw, if we insist on going the dual-threat route, I say go after Devante Kincaide from Dallas Skyline…that cat ABSOLUTELY gets it and could be very similar to RGIII in four years.
TTU still passed the ball 60% of the time, which is what happened the year before. And don’t anyone start about the success of the offense. It’s not what it was. I get that.
This is not a fact and is truthfully all speculation:
Fact is, our "AirRaid" (as told by tuBS) OC may not be around after signing day, and almost certainly is outta here after next year.
If it is a fact, then please provide the link where Tuberville intends on firing OC Brown after signing day or after the next season. He may, but this is untruthful.
The offense is clearly not the same as when Leach ran it, but as I’ve said a gagillion times, Leach is unique and what he does is special.
For the foreseeable future, there will be no conversion to a pro-set type of offense because there is only 1 tight end on the roster (more on that tomorrow). It will remain a spread offense as long as OC Brown is calling plays with a lot of 10 personnel.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Fact is...
I misspoke, I have no factual proof. However, my gut tells me this is so…it would explain Brown’s going after lackluster HC jobs and, as I stated, it just jibes more with tuBS and who he is. Can you honestly tell me that you see tuBS as a pass happy guy? And the transition will take a few more years, so it’s not like I was predicting that to happen next year. I get that we passed more than we ran, but we still have personnel that is efficient to do so. If and when tuBS has the time to get a roster more in line with his expectations, I fully expect him to go more in the direction of a running game that is more similar to the schools I listed above. Again, I think it’s unrealistic to think tuBS will stay as pass happy as we have been the last two years (which is less than our past numbers). Brown is the key, and the second he’s gone I believe we’ll see a change. After last year, I expected a coordinator change due the fact that I am aware of Tuberville’s habits, and I fully expected it to be Brown…if nothing else but for the fact that I didn’t expect tuBS to fire a DC who was there for only a year. I was wrong there, but I did see that Brown was actively shopping for a new gig, and, from my experience, that is something that usually is a result of tension in the office…especially his going for the UAB job. If tuBS is going to fire him, I would think it would be after signing day, but surely after next year…if Brown isn’t successful, he’ll be the typical tuBS scapegoat. Even a dominant season by TTU would likely result in Brown getting a new job. So I can’t see how we go into 2013 with the same offense. Again, I don’t want to be a running team, it quite frankly bores me…but I think tuBS is what he is, and he is probably past doing the passing thing for appearances. Just my opinion, but it seems the most realistic likelihood.
I don’t think Tuberville likes passing the ball as much as Tech has in the past but I doubt he abondons the spread or passing offense anytime soon. It’s what was and still is a staple of Tech. I agree that you will see more of a power running game introduced but you have to figure that Tuberville has a short life span as coach and will probably try and keep things somewhat the same offensively. If Tuberville had time on his side I’d agree with you that we’d see less and less as time progresses. I want to believe that this offeseason is all about defense as it should be. Games were lost this past season for having a very poor and ill prepared defense. That is where Tuberville should focus his energy if he wants to remain employed beyond 2012 at Texas Tech.
"You've got to find your inner pirate" - Mike Leach
by Raider1992 on Jan 18, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If he really
wants to remain here after 2012, he would also do well to leave ALL offensive playcalling to Brown. I have absolutely no proof but I just can’t help but believe Tubs has meddled with the playcalling as evidenced by the predictability and lack of red zone efficiency. I went back and watched some drives of Troy when he was there and things have changed A LOT from that offense
RedZone O
I was shocked by this, but we actually were a top 15 team in scoring effiency in the red zone. But I’m with you in that it just seemed like something was just off. I dunno.
The predicitbility is whats off
We were conditioned that by ML on run/pass selection and now tuBS is a traditionalist and easy to stop. He wants to pass on 3rd and Long and run almost every single 3rd and short.
We all know (or knew) that on 3rd and short you throw a slant, and on 3rd and long your run a draw against the blitz, then throw a slant on 4th and short
Then the changing speed thing, sometimes were fast, sometimes we try and milk the clock there are no times when we have any natural rhythm
College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................
"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas
Back home in the B12
we were just 4th in RZ scoring efficiency. (But A&M led the B12 at 95% and it didn’t work out that well for them.) Of perhaps more concern, Tech was only 7th in RZ attempts. Nevertheless, I see MUCH more room for improvement on the other side of the ball.
One interesting offensive stat for those that accuse HCTT of being a FG-lover: Tech led the B12 in RZ TD efficiency.
And a sad defensive stat: ISU only scored 28 TDs all year, but 5 were in Lubbock.
I don't have to look, it was not 28.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
True that
Seems all our good stats got loaded up in a few good games, then it all went to poo
That New Mexico and OU game sure felt like home though didnt they
College Football: "Our Traditions are now for Sale"
.....................................................................................
"Well the ball just didnt bounce our way today" Tommy Tubervile, after decades of coaching experience, the best he can do ....................................................................................................................................
Blaze a trail, spend some time in West Texas, feel the sand sting your skin and burn your eyes, let the winter dry your hands, learn that its there only because our ancestors didn’t want to be around other people … that’s West Texas
I agree
The spread isn’t going anywhere with Brown here. I’m actually beginning to wonder what it would be like if we did start throwing in some pro-style sets randomly just to mix it up a little bit. My biggest concern right now (as many others have stated) is our OL. We have some great talent at the RB position and I wish we had a beast of an OL that could open up some holes. It would be nice to have the option to burn clock time and still produce points late in the game and have some consistency rather than crossing our fingers and hoping the other team doesn’t score. I’m a huge fan of the spread and love the passing game but I would be open to seeing some different sets occasionally in hopes of finding some reliable ground game options. I am of the opinion ( I don’t have a link just my opinion) that if we are successful this season and Tubs stays but Brown takes a HC job elsewhere the opportunity would present itself to go in a different direction with our offense. I’m curious to see if Tubs adds some new sets to the offensive play calling this year just to dabble with a new look in case this situation is presented. He may even have an idea of who he would bring in as his OC if Brown leaves due to the possibilities of Brown leaving during this offseason.
I’m not at all saying that it’s a done deal and that the spread will be kicked to the curb after this season. I’m just trying to say that I could see a situation where the shift in approach could occur. The big decider in my opinion is how long Brown stays around.
Have good and get give
I forgot to add one more part...
I hope Brewer has a shot at the starting job. That kid is going to be a special player for Tech and if Doege can’t deliver the needed leadership and/or production why not give the kid a shot along with Young? I’m not advocating a blind faith in Brewer but I didn’t see anything this year that made me think Doege was an all conference caliber QB. He’s good and had a few good games but I want someone that will go in and take control of the situation and make the necessary reads and decisions. Doege made some good plays under pressure but too many high pressure mistakes were made in 2011. We need someone who can handle the pressure.
Have good and get give
"fact is"
the phrase, “fact is”, is a saying. a colloquialism. a figure of speech. one heard in Texas quite a bit. and this is the internet. a blog, no less, where the core competency is speculation. sure, we post things that are in fact, “facts”. but jeez Seth, don’t get your panties in a bunch. jeez dude, mine are getting all bunch up, trying to tell you not to get yours bunched up. jeez.
by Jameson Vernon on Jan 23, 2012 2:27 AM CST up reply actions
I get that. Rather than say, “fact is”, say “I think” or “In my opinion”.
Go Raiders . . .
Double-T Nation
Know Thyself...
And I’m afraid we aren’t real sure who we are today or will be tomorrow, offensively or defensively. This is a core problem and Tubs owns it. It has a major impact on recruiting and on the attitudes of the current players. As far as offensive schemes, I like what TCU does…multiple sets, power run, some spread option stuff, throw the ball up the field, etc. But you have to commit to a direction and recruit accordingly. Maybe Tubs has done so and just didn’t tell anyone.
"When you are right no one remembers, when you are wrong no one forgets."
kinda like a three ring circus...............
except, I really enjoy the circus.
We ought to Haboob his ass
I’m so totally an AirRaid guy, I think our few sets (doubles, deuce and trips) were fine because we rep’d the hell out of our plays. We, quite simply, out-executed their guys…we did what we did better than they did what they did. I think there is no better way to go, personally, and it makes it easier to “plug-in” back-ups when an injury occurs. That combined with Leach’s abhorrence of tendency were the great secrets of the AirRaid. Simplicity and efficiency.
by PBK on Jan 18, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In no way do I want us to move away from the spread
But I have to say I’m not opposed to recruiting more mobile QBs. After watching Taylor Potts “run” the ball a couple of times it really drove home the point how important it is to have a more versatile QB, or at least one that doesn’t “run” in slow motion.
I’m not trying to pick on Potts – he had a lot of great skills. Running just wasn’t one of them.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain
I would have to say
since the Leach era began that Potts was by far the weakest QB we had.
And I thought that Doege's running and scrambling were just fine from what I saw.
I do not see him as a multi-threat QB but I did not think he hurt the offense by lack of mobility.
It all depends on where Tech finishes next season.
If the Red Raiders can get to 8 or 9 wins, with 4 or 5 in conference play, Tuberville will earn a new lease and be here, regardless of outcomes, for another 4 years. I just think that is what the AD and his “uppers” want to happen. Brown, if he receives any offers of substance, will soon be gone, as I think his playcalling has been somewhat hampered by input from Tubs, and in that instance, the HC wins every time. A 7 win season may get another year for Tubs to get the team to where he wants it, but a 6 or less win season may result in him being released. As much as the admin wants Tech football to succeed with anything that does not resemble what it had when we did not play real football, they will hold on to the current HC as long as possible. Even if he is released in the next couple of years, I see Tech still trying to go back to the old style, even if it means never winning a championship. I just feel they are that hardheaded. It sucks, but that is what I am expecting. Now, if somehow, those “top dogs” are gone soon, the whole gameplan could change, and that could be for the better or for the worst….you just never know.
TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill
"go back to the old style"
By that, I mean running 60% of the time, at least…like when Spike was the head coach.
TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill
Let me get this straight...
A heavier emphasis on the run is not really Tub’s fault because that’s what the admin wants? He’s just following his boss’ orders?
I agree with the dissent about this.
I think that Gus and Dr cane have it about right. What’s really interesting is that we can’t form a clear consensus or find our little camps on the issue. (Which is actually kind of refreshing for a change, however, we are supposed to be very pleased about this.)
WARNING: here comes an automobile analogy-
Lets assume the quarterback is an engine for a second. Important but not everything.
The kind of engine you install defines and limits the purpose of your machine.
It’s all a question of what you want to accomplish and how.
You have to also mind the fact that the engine has to fit with what the rest of the truck is set up to do.
Looking at the engine alone might tell you what it’s best used for, but if you get creative and put it in a different truck, you may or may not get to where you are going.
I see Tubs getting creative here, and the strengths (and weaknesses) of the rest of the truck (team) these days, with what I assume to be the Tubs trajectory combines into your Harrell-type quarterbacks being less critical to the success of the team overall. (In theory anyway.)
I think we will continue our lip-service to the air-raid while undermining it as has been going on for a while now.
Nothing has changed but everything has changed.
The dual-threat QB thing, by the way was supposed to be big news/good news. Very surprised it has dribbled out and rolled around with so little fanfare or strong feelings either way. it was to be packaged as a “golden arm, plus” type of thing, for obvious reasons. (For anyone who has ever been asked to “plus” something in the real world, on planet earth, you have my sympathy.) The philosophical shift was supposed to not be as quiet, and I expected to be pounded with the good news while it echoed for weeks. Maybe that’s saved for the end of the upcoming season?
Both of my groups of folks I talk to who know about these things overestimated it, and TTU has been fairly quiet about it, too.
I think the idea I am most comfortable with is that Dodge may start, and he might play well all season but if his performance is poor or he gets injured, there would be zero hesitation to opening the new pipeline of dual-threat guys. Nobody wants the guy to get mauled or have a really bad time, but it just so happens they are prepared if things go bad.
I am also hearing that they really want a walk-on with a compelling story, but may or may not have available slots to do it. Foreign countries, wild adventures, interesting background, that kind of thing.
Hey, as long as he plays good football- I don’t care if he was kidnapped by thugs while his parents were on safari, and eaten by a wild esophagus, then walked 75 miles to the border and hitchhiked to China, before stowing away on a bulk ship full of kitty litter bound for San Diego to get back home. I think solid football, now more than ever is more important than fanciful details of the people doing it. Interesting that they might be looking for a compelling story in the first place though. I thought the football should speak for itself, but there I go thinking again. I don’t see this walk-on thing panning out.
by Raider289 on Jan 18, 2012 6:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Swoopes is a 5 star recruit per SCOUT. Barrett is not ranked yet. Hill..
Another recruit considering Texas Tech is Tyler Cogswell, 6ft 5in, 215lbs, of American Heritage School in Plantation, Florida, who is said to have a big arm. Another is Austin Henyon, Trinity Valley School of Ft. Worth, also no ranked, and the guy mentioned above, Devante Kincade, 6ft 2in, 180lbs, unranked. So, at least there are these QBs all considering Texas Tech. We’ll see where it transpires after next year.
TTpilk
"Never, never, never give up." Winston Churchill
Rivals Says
Swoopes is a 5 star and reminds them of Vince Young…
Hill and Barrett are unrated…
Barrett, classified as a dual threat threw for more yardage than he ran for…
Austin Henyon?
Really? Watched this one in person last year. Interesting. I would not have him being recruited at the D1 level. Also, measurables shown on Scout are a bit (actually a lot) suspect. Saw plenty of other QB prospects I would take first.
But the only claim to fame I have with recruiting was helping bring the most famous “smurf” to TTU, the one and only Tyrone Thurman. Man, was it fun to watch him return punts!!
Got to visit with Tyrone at the TT Hall of Fame dinner
this fall…….still a very grounded individual.
We ought to Haboob his ass
Great to hear
I remember giving him a tour around the campus and the place he wanted to see the most was the BA building. I knew at that point he was going to make it!
I LOVE Tyrone Thurman!!
Totally agree tturef – it was great watching him return punts – he was so fast and small it made him hard to catch!
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. -Mark Twain
PS
BJ Symons, my favorite Air Raid QB, ran the veer in high school.
It’s hard to imagine he was rated a “pocket passer” while being recruited.
too bad it took him so long to get on the field;
wish we could have had him for one more year.
"Oh, yeah. We don't even talk about Bowls much. We're so far away from being a team right now that can have a chance to compete in a Bowl." HC Tommy Tuberville.
Ha Ha! I agree
I was at that game and was pissed off at him for that. Called him all kinds of names I wouldn’t put in print.
Dual Threat QB...
Is what made Neil Brown’s offense click at Troy. I have never believed he b was looking for a true pocket passer. Look at some of the plays called this year. QB option, a few draws, etc. They really like Brewer for that reason. However, Doege has done nothing to lose his job as a senior. Other than injury, it will be Doege as the starter.
Two of the QBs listed are arguably the best in the state, so it makes sense we offer.
by TechPrezNB on Jan 22, 2012 7:36 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Swoops vs. Brewer?
If I’m Tubbs im telling this kid that he has a chance to battle with Brewer for the starting spot. I just hope Brown can keep the air-raid and add an escape run to the offense. I always thought our offense would be even better with a good passing QB with wheels to worry about as well..
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